Still getting my head around a few basics, so patience please .......
Are any SFP users working solely in audio, with no midi sequencing? I'm wondering how practical this is in the real world, and how much effort is needed to learn this? Can anyone out there work comfortably with just Ableton Live and SFP?
Newbie Query re: Ableton Live
i sometimes do use only sfp+live, well, almost... 
most of the time, i throw in a loop (from my library, or made with reason (i only use reason for drums...) and start adding riffs, loops, hits,... using just my keyboard, wavelength devices and modular stuff.
however, for the more sofisticated stuff, i tend to go back to cubase most of the time...
playing the loops 'live' into live gives a real live feel though
there are so many ways to make music. ableton live is real nice, but i would not make it my sole solution. especially that midi seq in live seems really far away...
however, you can do soooooooooo much with just one loop in ableton. duplicate a few times, start playing with the warp markers, add some vst fx... unbelievable actually.
all you actually need is a laptop, ableton live and a simple mic to make real funky music...
most of the time, i throw in a loop (from my library, or made with reason (i only use reason for drums...) and start adding riffs, loops, hits,... using just my keyboard, wavelength devices and modular stuff.
however, for the more sofisticated stuff, i tend to go back to cubase most of the time...
playing the loops 'live' into live gives a real live feel though
there are so many ways to make music. ableton live is real nice, but i would not make it my sole solution. especially that midi seq in live seems really far away...
however, you can do soooooooooo much with just one loop in ableton. duplicate a few times, start playing with the warp markers, add some vst fx... unbelievable actually.
all you actually need is a laptop, ableton live and a simple mic to make real funky music...
andy
the lunatics are in the hall
the lunatics are in the hall
Hey thanks for that response. Your comment on "feel" hit a nerve. I guess that's what I'm looking for. I'm finding it hard to get the feel I like in rhythm parts with midi....maybe I need a drum pad midi input....or a lot more keyboard practice at getting a groove.
More comments wanted and welcomed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-30 07:17 ]</font>
More comments wanted and welcomed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-30 07:17 ]</font>
Is it practical to believe I could play samples/synths into Live from SFP, copy, loop, arrange and edit beyond relief, then mixdown via the SFP effects/mixers to ....I don't know...can I master back to Live from this? Would it be better to master to VDAT?
These may seem stupid questions, but they're better out than in.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-30 20:19 ]</font>
These may seem stupid questions, but they're better out than in.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-30 20:19 ]</font>
well, you can just record the overall mix back to Live again in a new track... just make sure it doesn't get back to sfp while recording...
i don't know vdat, but if it works without asio (because Live will have to use asio), you can record into vdat, yes. vdat users say its recording quality is excellent.
and yes, just record all your doodling into live, mangle it to death, and use the busses to route everything back to sfp and mix there. too bad live doesn't offer the possibility yet to get mono tracks out of the app, but the ableton team is aware of this and are working on it.
_________________
andy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> the lunatics are in the hall </FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2003-07-31 04:48 ]</font>
i don't know vdat, but if it works without asio (because Live will have to use asio), you can record into vdat, yes. vdat users say its recording quality is excellent.
and yes, just record all your doodling into live, mangle it to death, and use the busses to route everything back to sfp and mix there. too bad live doesn't offer the possibility yet to get mono tracks out of the app, but the ableton team is aware of this and are working on it.
_________________
andy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> the lunatics are in the hall </FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2003-07-31 04:48 ]</font>
Thanks Borg.....I appreciate the comments you've made. They help me get a clearer picture. I didn't know about the mono tracks issue, but that probably won't affect me seriously until I get my head around the program.
This seems a different way of working, and I think I might like it. All that's left is to pay my money and do it......or then there's tripleDAT... Thanks again.. this forum is a big help.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-31 06:17 ]</font>
This seems a different way of working, and I think I might like it. All that's left is to pay my money and do it......or then there's tripleDAT... Thanks again.. this forum is a big help.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2003-07-31 06:17 ]</font>
Yes, Live views its ASIO outputs as busses and they can thus not be unlinked (stereo -> mono). The way I got mono tracks out of Live was to hard pan each track in Live to left and right (track 1: L, track 2: R, track 3: L, track 4: R etc.) and have two tracks share the same output stereo-pair (track 1/2: master out (which I had set to ASIO out 1/2), track 2/3: ASIO out 2/3 etc.).
If I wanted to automate STM mixers from Live I would have to instert, and _disable_, some VST plugin on each track. I found the Fruity Balance plugin to be the best choice with its "Volume" and "Balance" labels. I then connected the X-Y controller thing in the plugin to these controllers - and there you have a working volume/pan control which can be automated in Live to control your external mixers.
If I wanted to automate STM mixers from Live I would have to instert, and _disable_, some VST plugin on each track. I found the Fruity Balance plugin to be the best choice with its "Volume" and "Balance" labels. I then connected the X-Y controller thing in the plugin to these controllers - and there you have a working volume/pan control which can be automated in Live to control your external mixers.
if i work with ableton on the mac, i record everything from live in a new Live track. if i'm working with live on the pc laptop, i record the analog output into cubase on the mac. a luxury thing, but just recording the mix into a new live track works fine too, if you just mute the track or direct it's output to channels that don't come back into the app. (obviously)
andy
the lunatics are in the hall
the lunatics are in the hall
I think I will go on to using the VDAT and perhaps some STS sampler. You can also do some extensive editing with WaveLab on the VDAT tracks.
I used to mix down to WaveLab, but I got much better results when mixing down to STS3000.
Mixing down to Live again trough ASIO might be better than mixing down to WaveLab through a wave dest though, I do not know.
I used to mix down to WaveLab, but I got much better results when mixing down to STS3000.
Mixing down to Live again trough ASIO might be better than mixing down to WaveLab through a wave dest though, I do not know.
You have to use STS3000 or above, as the lesser models can not record samples, only play them.
It is all in the manual, however (from memory):
1. Make a new program
2. Go to Keygroups menu
3. Create new keygroup
4. Create a new sample file (stereo, whatever prefered bit rate and file format)
5. Click on the Sample editor
6. Either press record or the "dB" tag.
7. Feed the samplers rec L/R with input.
The sampler writes directly to disk, nothing is stored in memory. Just make sure to delete the program later on, or just remove the sampler from the project, "de-voice" it or whatever. The recorded file should be on disk.
It is all in the manual, however (from memory):
1. Make a new program
2. Go to Keygroups menu
3. Create new keygroup
4. Create a new sample file (stereo, whatever prefered bit rate and file format)
5. Click on the Sample editor
6. Either press record or the "dB" tag.
7. Feed the samplers rec L/R with input.
The sampler writes directly to disk, nothing is stored in memory. Just make sure to delete the program later on, or just remove the sampler from the project, "de-voice" it or whatever. The recorded file should be on disk.
Thanks Voidar. I don't presently have STS3000 or above. I'm going to buy Ableton Live, so I wonder if I'd need the sampler. I'm still setting up. I'm doing more spending than working so I'm unsure.
I think I'll have to get started with Live and see how things "pan out" (audio joke...nyuk nyuk nyuk)... I appreciate your comments. I think I'm getting a bit too far ahead of my experience. I'd better just start doing.
I think I'll have to get started with Live and see how things "pan out" (audio joke...nyuk nyuk nyuk)... I appreciate your comments. I think I'm getting a bit too far ahead of my experience. I'd better just start doing.
Don't want to complicate your plans, but I'd also take a serious look at AcidPro 4 before buying Ableton.
AcidPro does almost everything that Ableton does, but often does it faster and better. Foremost among these is the pitch-shift function: very good in Acid; quite poor IMHO in Ableton.
Ableton has some good effects, is very quick to build little parts, a nice GUI and commands fashionable hype.
AcidPro is much better for song construction, has a better audio engine (IMHO!), can take a video track, and also hosts VSTi and MIDI tracks. The VSTi and MIDI functionality isn't great, but it's quite usable.
AcidPro also costs much less - probably half of Ableton (?). There's also a crossgrade offer at the moment to Acid users: show proof you have Acid and you get Ableton at half price. So if you can pick up AcidPro4 for less than half the price of Ableton, you could have both apps for the price of one !
Anyway, something to consider.
AcidPro does almost everything that Ableton does, but often does it faster and better. Foremost among these is the pitch-shift function: very good in Acid; quite poor IMHO in Ableton.
Ableton has some good effects, is very quick to build little parts, a nice GUI and commands fashionable hype.
AcidPro is much better for song construction, has a better audio engine (IMHO!), can take a video track, and also hosts VSTi and MIDI tracks. The VSTi and MIDI functionality isn't great, but it's quite usable.
AcidPro also costs much less - probably half of Ableton (?). There's also a crossgrade offer at the moment to Acid users: show proof you have Acid and you get Ableton at half price. So if you can pick up AcidPro4 for less than half the price of Ableton, you could have both apps for the price of one !
Anyway, something to consider.
Ah Spirit, I'm stunned with how much I learn around Planet Z. I've changed my plans 26 times already. 27 won't matter much.
I find that all I can do with demos is get a bit of a feel for the program. Until I've really learned to work with it I can't appreciate the capability. That's where you folks are so helpful. I trust your opinions and I will do as you suggest. I know my final decisions will be far better for having had the input of everbody here.
I find that all I can do with demos is get a bit of a feel for the program. Until I've really learned to work with it I can't appreciate the capability. That's where you folks are so helpful. I trust your opinions and I will do as you suggest. I know my final decisions will be far better for having had the input of everbody here.