Hello all. I have a couple questions and I'm looking for a little advice or suggestions from current users.
I've finally decided to stop stalling and get a decent sound card for my set up. I've been using a SBLive! for way too long.
In searching around I've done some reading about the Luna II and it looks like it could be perfect for what I want to do and could kill a couple birds with one stone providing a decent sound card, high quality plug-ins and a way to increase/expand my workflow.
Let me explain my current set-up. I'm on a mostly software set-up using Sonar 2.2XL and various soft-synths, effects on a 2.4Ghz Pentium 4 with 512 MB RAM all on WindowsXP home. I also have a Korg EM-1 hooked up that I sequence through Sonar and an older midiman keyboard controller. I plan on adding a hardware synth or two to my set up in the future.
As far as the soundcard goes, I think with the optional additional audio I/O and a midisport I currently own, I should be all good as fas as audio and midi connections for the future.
1. This DSP technology is really fascinating me with the thought of reducing native proccesing usage. I am wondering with the Luna II's three DSP cards, just how much I can get out of it? I don't plan on having it replace my current synth/effect set-up, but rather compliment it and use it mostly for processor intensive plugs and perhaps a synth or two. I'm finding with a lot of my projects that I start to overload my system about 3/4 of the way through and am forced to make sacrifices to keep going. I just really need that little bit extra.
2. How does this work in Sonar? Since I have the VST-DX wrapper can I add the Luna's plug-ins like I would any normal DX or VST in XTC mode? How are the Luna's effects used in Sonar in "non" XTC mode? Can I use the Luna's plugs side by side with my DX and VST? Has anybody had any other issues with Sonar2 and Luna II?
3. How is the installation? Is it a standard PCI sized card?
4. Any other issues that I should be aware of? What about this bankruptcy issue? Is this going to affect customer service, availability of drivers, etc?
Sorry for the long-winded post. I appreicate any responses. Thanks.
Some Basic Luna II questions
hi and welcome...
some quick thoughts.
what are your plans with the external synths? if it is just for studio use, i'd say: invest the money in a pulsar, or better, powerpulsar or ultimately scope (with the latter you will get ALL devices available in Creamware shop).
the luna is really nice for it's price tag, but it won't get you real far if you wanna do synths, processing... at the same time.
as far as XTC goes, i'm no good... nothing like that for macintosh, and personally, i don't mind. plus it's still in it's infancy. not everybody seems to get it up and running at a descent level.
afaik, there were some issues with sonar, but i also seem to remember that at some point, working drivers were provided.
the luna is a normal, rather small pci card. should be real easy to install.
about creamware going bankrupt... they say it's ok. noah took more time than expected to hit the streets. i know i've got a working setup, and it's only my hardware that could get in the way of an eternally nice system.
did you know luna has it's own midi interface? i'm not familiar with the midiman products... maybe you can use the device to split/merge signals. the more professional folks do however tend to use a dedicated midi box, but sfp midi should be adequate... lot's of routing fascilities.
hope to have answered some of your questions...
some quick thoughts.
what are your plans with the external synths? if it is just for studio use, i'd say: invest the money in a pulsar, or better, powerpulsar or ultimately scope (with the latter you will get ALL devices available in Creamware shop).
the luna is really nice for it's price tag, but it won't get you real far if you wanna do synths, processing... at the same time.
as far as XTC goes, i'm no good... nothing like that for macintosh, and personally, i don't mind. plus it's still in it's infancy. not everybody seems to get it up and running at a descent level.
afaik, there were some issues with sonar, but i also seem to remember that at some point, working drivers were provided.
the luna is a normal, rather small pci card. should be real easy to install.
about creamware going bankrupt... they say it's ok. noah took more time than expected to hit the streets. i know i've got a working setup, and it's only my hardware that could get in the way of an eternally nice system.
did you know luna has it's own midi interface? i'm not familiar with the midiman products... maybe you can use the device to split/merge signals. the more professional folks do however tend to use a dedicated midi box, but sfp midi should be adequate... lot's of routing fascilities.
hope to have answered some of your questions...
andy
the lunatics are in the hall
the lunatics are in the hall
welcome zone_ahead 
and let me complement some of andy's hints.
The Luna is a good entry system in the way that you can add a high quality IO-box (the 2496) and additional DSP board(s) later. Most users do just that, because you can never have enough DSP power, once you begin to like it - so be prepared to want it too
The SFP audio is processed with nothing but quality in mind and compared to native synths they burn incredible amounts of processing power. No joke, you CAN hear that.
Don't be irritated on that tiny amount of voices frequently mentioned. 3 SFP voices can sound much fuller than a dozen mid class native ones.
While it's of course best to spend as much as possible, you don't have to if your budget is tight. Once you extend it later, your original investment keeps it's value, the system is just scaled up, a not so common feature today.
The midi issue is only a problem with large amounts of sysex data, like in Sounddiver or other synth editors.
SFP can be really strange in that context and so many users with 'classical' external synths simply spare the hassle and connect a cheap external midibox.
If all you need is a midi keyboard to record notes in the sequencer or play SFP synths, you can connect that directly to the Luna without probs.
Afaik Sonar now also supports the Asio standard, there were indeed problems with the original WDM drivers. It may have improved though, but I don't know enough of Sonar.
cheers, tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2003-07-29 17:12 ]</font>
and let me complement some of andy's hints.The Luna is a good entry system in the way that you can add a high quality IO-box (the 2496) and additional DSP board(s) later. Most users do just that, because you can never have enough DSP power, once you begin to like it - so be prepared to want it too
The SFP audio is processed with nothing but quality in mind and compared to native synths they burn incredible amounts of processing power. No joke, you CAN hear that.
Don't be irritated on that tiny amount of voices frequently mentioned. 3 SFP voices can sound much fuller than a dozen mid class native ones.
While it's of course best to spend as much as possible, you don't have to if your budget is tight. Once you extend it later, your original investment keeps it's value, the system is just scaled up, a not so common feature today.
The midi issue is only a problem with large amounts of sysex data, like in Sounddiver or other synth editors.
SFP can be really strange in that context and so many users with 'classical' external synths simply spare the hassle and connect a cheap external midibox.
If all you need is a midi keyboard to record notes in the sequencer or play SFP synths, you can connect that directly to the Luna without probs.
Afaik Sonar now also supports the Asio standard, there were indeed problems with the original WDM drivers. It may have improved though, but I don't know enough of Sonar.
cheers, tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2003-07-29 17:12 ]</font>
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zone_ahead
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Shayne White
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CW markets the Luna has a highly advanced I/O card with an incredible live routing system. Beyond that you can't do too much -- maybe one or two monophonic synths (depending on whether they're "analog" or not) and a few effects, and you've run out of DSP. No synths ship with Luna for this reason. So if you do want to use some SFP synths, you'd probably better go for Pulsar or PowerPulsar.
Sonar is completely compatible now with ASIO support, DON'T TRY WDM!
The Luna MIDI I/O works just fine. There are probably some SysX issues but otherwise it's OK.
You can't integrate the SFP synths and effects into Sonar unless you're in XTC mode, in which case you lose the I/O options (only Cubase can access them). You're better off using the standard SFP mode. It's far more powerful anyway -- the routing window is AWESOME!! You've never seen anything like it.
Even if you do only opt for Luna, you won't be disappointed.
Shayne
Sonar is completely compatible now with ASIO support, DON'T TRY WDM!
The Luna MIDI I/O works just fine. There are probably some SysX issues but otherwise it's OK.
You can't integrate the SFP synths and effects into Sonar unless you're in XTC mode, in which case you lose the I/O options (only Cubase can access them). You're better off using the standard SFP mode. It's far more powerful anyway -- the routing window is AWESOME!! You've never seen anything like it.
Even if you do only opt for Luna, you won't be disappointed.
Shayne
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zone_ahead
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- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Thanks for the input Shayne. I think at least initially, I would probably only be using the DSP for my send effects. If I can get at least that out of it, then anything else would be a bonus. I think that little extra boost alone would give me a lot more headroom to work in my projects. However, I could easily see, as astroman said that I could get seriously addicted to SCOPE and want to utilize it more than a way to save on processor usage.
I'm going to do some serious comparison shopping and see if I might find a good deal on the Pulsar. I had given myself a maximum budget for a soundcard of less than $500, but if I could find a Pulsar for a little more, I might be swayed. I noticed one on E-Bay new, still in the box for $750 US. So I'll have to see. Decisions...decisions....
Thanks again for the input everyone.
I'm going to do some serious comparison shopping and see if I might find a good deal on the Pulsar. I had given myself a maximum budget for a soundcard of less than $500, but if I could find a Pulsar for a little more, I might be swayed. I noticed one on E-Bay new, still in the box for $750 US. So I'll have to see. Decisions...decisions....
Thanks again for the input everyone.
Hi zone! At http://www.infinitevortex.com they recently told me they had used pulsar cards for 600$us, so imo it's worth checking, and they are very honest people! Otherwise, if you go for the luna, even though you can't run many plug-ins at once, don't underestimate the possibilities it can offer. I've built startling soundscapes with Mod2 with only my luna II card, and even if I could play one note at a time with my 3 dsps touching the red in many patches, bouncing them to audio made it quite workable!
Welcome aboard, enjoy your adventures!
Welcome aboard, enjoy your adventures!
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zone_ahead
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
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Shayne White
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
One thing to note is that Pulsar 1 (as opposed to Pulsar 2) has poorer PCI performance and doesn't have ULLI (Ultra-Low-Latency-Interface). The minimum audio latency you can get with Pulsar 1 is 11ms. The internal hardware routing will still be 1ms (synths and I/Os), but the ASIO interface to Sonar will be 11ms and above. Pulsar 2 can go all the way down to 1ms ASIO. So if you're using a lot of native soft synths, which I think you said you are, you'd probably better shoot for Pulsar 2 over Pulsar 1 (if you decide not to get Luna).
Shayn
Shayn
It's definitely worth getting a pulsar if you can afford it. I started with a powersampler, and inevitably, loved the DSP thing so much I bought a luna for more power. So now I have six chips for about the price I could get a pulsar, but without the wonderful bonuses like the Modular etc which are bundled with it.
You shouldn't think of it as spending money on a SOUNDCARD, because it really isn't a soundcard. It is all those silly hardware synths (many of them free) that you were going to buy, plus a top of the range mixer, reverb, compressors, delays . . . just about everything.
A bit of investment now will really pay off, trust me !
Have fun choosing . . . hope you get a good deal on a pulsar,
Will.
You shouldn't think of it as spending money on a SOUNDCARD, because it really isn't a soundcard. It is all those silly hardware synths (many of them free) that you were going to buy, plus a top of the range mixer, reverb, compressors, delays . . . just about everything.
A bit of investment now will really pay off, trust me !
Have fun choosing . . . hope you get a good deal on a pulsar,
Will.