CW and pro tools

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:10 pm

Hi! I'm currently investigating for a reasonably priced outboard A-D-A interface for upcoming projects and I'd appreciate some feed-back about CW-pro-tools integration. Digidesing systems now support asio drivers, so that might open the possibility to use it in direct connection with sfp at software level, and with any preferred sequencer... Anyone's doing that?

I'm thinking of getting a used digi 001.

Any input on the topic welcome!

Cheers!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:45 pm

Hi eliam

I never used digi001, but some thing come directly to mind.

Logic or PT can't use 2 differents asio driver, so this doesn't help at all.

But if you use digi asio driver, or their own DAE for instance, you can send anything from pt to sfp or sfp to pt thru adat.

Digi001 has 8 adat ios. it also as i think, 2 mic preamp, so that is also usefull, specialy since you can send it to sfp for treatment thru mod3 for example

If you use sfp asio drivers, pt become only a mixer.

An other possibility, is that you can probably use 2 soft at the same times, each with their own asio driver, like logic + standalone reaktor for example.

I think some guy like kimgr uses pt everyday with sfp, he probably have a couple of better suggestion.

BTW, the digi001 is only to get a new interface or is it really to work in pt?

If it's for interface, you maybe have a close look to Yamaha 01X. it's a control surface (like logic control), a digital mixer, an audio interface, a midi interface also.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:45 pm

Hey Marcus!
I see... Yes, I'm looking for an affordable audio converter for the studio

, and I've seen some digi 001 on ebay for less than 500$us, so it seems within my range. The yamaha workstation seems really cool too, but I'll need something cheaper for now, to be able to work until I can afford something better, if I want to...

It would seem logical to pass from a digi card to the sfp environment through ADAT then. That's fine with me. With these 2 cards I could load 2 sets of asio drivers, one on each card? Interesting... Je vais cogiter là-dessus...
Ciao, thanks for the reply!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:57 pm

On 2003-07-12 17:45, eliam wrote:
...With these 2 cards I could load 2 sets of asio drivers, one on each card? Interesting...

Eliam, you cannot (as an option) - you HAVE TO.

Each card has to use it's own ASIO driver, which also means that you have to run 2 separate applications to make use of them simultaneously, which in turn doesn't make much sense.
I guess that's what Marcuspocus wanted to express.
But I'm shure you'll succeed on eBay with a $500 budget, quite some options for that amount.
Recently a shop nearby had a Swissonic Adat converter for less than that

good shopping, Tom

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:24 pm

I might have 2 computers in the studio, but I want to see if I can do it anyway with only one. As for an ADAT adaptor, why would I need one exactly?

I think I can use the protools native drivers on the digidesign card along with the asio on the CW, am I right? I haven't really figured it all yet, so thanks for the help!

[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2003-07-12 19:33 ]

orbita · Post by **orbita** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:00 pm

On 2003-07-12 19:24, eliam wrote:
I might have 2 computers in the studio, but I want to see if I can do it anyway with only one. As for an ADAT adaptor, why would I need one exactly?

I think I can use the protools native drivers on the digidesign card along with the asio on the CW, am I right? I haven't really figured it all yet, so thanks for the help!

[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2003-07-12 19:33 ]

The issue that you will need to bear in mind is that any given software application, be it cubase/logic or whatever does not support multiple drivers simultaneously. So you will not be able to interface with both protools hardware and creamware hardware from within one application.

If you run separate applications, like standalone softsynths, you will be able to use a different driver in that application from your main sequcner and thus be able to use both sets of hardware.

regarding ADAT, a number of creamware cards have ADAT Litepipe connections. If you want to add A/D convertors, there are a number available (A16 ultra forexample) that have ADAT connections so you can connect them to your creamware card. Its possible (but unlikely) that the digi 001 has this support.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:37 pm

On 2003-07-12 19:24, eliam wrote:
I might have 2 computers in the studio, but I want to see if I can do it anyway with only one. As for an ADAT adaptor, why would I need one exactly?

If one computer has digi and the other sfp, you need something to exchange audio between the 2 of them, adat... digi as 8 adat ios

Pulsar as 16, so you could use adat loop between pt and sfp...

But if you use sfp and pt on the same PC, you can use only ONE of the driver inside a given software.

For example would you use PT or Logic?

If PT, you can only use pt drivers... so talking with sfp, even on the same machine is going to happen using adat.

If you use logic, you can choose between using pt OR sfp drivers, not both... So again, you'll still have to communicate thru adat for pt and sfp to talk togheter.

SO! To point is, do you WANT pt or do you want inputs (ad/da)? If you want inputs, buy something else, no need for PT here.

You got plenty of choices for 8 or 16 inputs module that use adats.

low price range, you have nehringer that do a 8 inputs/ouputs (balanced analog on 1/4" trs) to adat ios.

In medium price range, you have for example, presonus doing a 16 IO rack that connect to PC using firewire, or using 16 adat ios.

In hi price range, you have apogee that do bunch of differents models.

I think I can use the protools native drivers on the digidesign card along with the asio on the CW, am I right? I haven't really figured it all yet, so thanks for the help!

No you can't.... Drivers don't talk togheter... Anyway, you would have to run both pt and sfp and logic at the same times to use both drivers, and they still would talk togheter. You would still have to use adat between them.

A good setup using pt and sfp would be a pt with plenty of adat plugs, same for sfp.

You would use PT sequencer, and use SFP as a turbo effects rack + a bunch of synths all in realtime, and wired thru adat to get the sounds in PT. So, in SFP you wouldn't even load ASIO drivers. Unless you would want to route for example a standalone VST instrument to record in PT, since protools doesn't support VST or VSTi.

But since PT now support ASIO, you could run PT with Logic, so you wouldn't even need that...

Basicly, PT with plenty of adat ios + sfp + plenty of adat ios running Logic would be somekind of 'the ultimate setup'

But frankly, it just seem you don't know exactly what you want or need yet, do some research...define clearly your needs before spending.

I think a know pretty well where you're heading...It's ok, the digi is a good thing for your needs, specially with the new studio in 2 mountains...

But this will change your way of working alot for sure. Unless you're still using logic (with pt hardware and pt asio), forget your vsti.

If you use sfp asio drivers and pt hardware on the same machine, there is no use at all for pt... execpt maybe for pt input, but you'd still have to route them to sfp thru adat. And using pt hardware only for input seem abit expensive, for average inputs...

For 500$, you can get better inputs, and more inputs, standalone, and still compatible with the 2 mountains studio (adat).

That's a long and annoying post isn't it?

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-07-12 20:38 ]

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:27 pm

No, that's very interesting! Thank you for taking time to answer!

I read that the last version of pro tools has the rewire function. How does that fit in? How many tracks could I route through it, let's say from pt to logic?

I think I see more clearly what it is all about... The point with a digi 001 is that I trust it more than a Berhinger or other lesser manufacturers. And of course, the pt software licence would be appropriate for our studio activities... It is weak on the midi side, but there might be ways to address it in midi-intensive projects... I'll surely want to use vsti too, so this is to consider also.

I'm still juggling with the possibilities... Basically, I just need good converters to make professional quality productions, whatever they might be...

See you!

Post by **garyb** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:25 am

i seriously doubt that the digi001 is superior to the behringer digital desk.in fact,i bet the same chips are handling the ad/da.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 3:52 am

Eliam, thez ad/da converter on digi001 are WORST THAN YOUR LUNA!!!

Check the thing!

BTW, gary, the behringer use delta sigma ad/da, like our pulsar, and also use 4 sharcs for onboard effects, it is written on their page...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:08 am

On 2003-07-12 22:27, eliam wrote:
I read that the last version of pro tools has the rewire function. How does that fit in? How many tracks could I route through it, let's say from pt to logic?

None, Logic is a rewire 1.0 host....Can't be the client for PT rewire...

Or if you use pt as a rewire client and logic as the host, you CAN'T send midi to pt... This is a Rewire 1.0 limitation.

And of course, the pt software licence would be appropriate for our studio activities...

Yeah, that's why i said i knew where you were heading...I'm still considering a PT for the same reason. Having a legit seq, that is kinda of a standard at the same time. That's why i asked to clearly define your needs.

It is weak on the midi side, but there might be ways to address it in midi-intensive projects...

Well, i heard that in v6, this is almost on par with logic, but logic, well, the environment, can't live without it...

Basically, I just need good converters to make professional quality productions, whatever they might be...

Ok, if you reallly only need ad/da, with mic pres... check this out :

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikm ... A8000.html

Pretty cheap 249$, brand new... 8 inputs, instead of 2 on the digi01

Same converter as our pulsar/luna (delta sigma 128x oversampling) with adat connectors.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:35 am

Isn't the software that comes with 001 the Protools LE? Protools LE is free for download.

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:13 am

Protools FREE is not the same as Protools LE.
http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/

Kim.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:24 am

Thanks for cleraing that out for me.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 3:16 pm

On 2003-07-13 04:52, marcuspocus wrote:
Eliam, thez ad/da converter on digi001 are WORST THAN YOUR LUNA!!!

Check the thing!

BTW, gary, the behringer use delta sigma ad/da, like our pulsar, and also use 4 sharcs for onboard effects, it is written on their page...

somehow i'm not surprised that the 001 converters are lousy(er).it's too inexpensive otherwise.i am surprised about the behringer.that's nice news for tight budgets.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:12 pm

Hmmm... well, I checked the Behringer ada, they don't seem to be out yet, but at this price, with the whole bundle they offer, they have much to prove... I don't assume anything though, I'll check around some more...

I don't really know what to do with all the data, for sure I'll need something that delivers, for I plan productions which aim at being final releases, so I'd rather wait or rent than proceeding with haf-quality gear.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:10 pm

check out the Event Electronics EZBus. They go for pretty cheap on ebay. It's an excellent audio to digital (ADAT and SPDIF), mixer, midi control surface, etc. It is ultra flexible (routing) and pretty easy to use. (It's great as a standalong digital mixer as well.)

It has USB audio/midi in/out also, but I've never used it for that, so I am not sure how the USB interface on it works.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:36 pm

Hey, Marcus, did you have a chance to compare the luna box with the a-16? If so, what is your opinion? Maybe a luna box would be nice for me, I'd need no adat and it's affordable...

Thank to all for the input!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:07 pm

Yes i had chance to compare...

The Luna IOBox seems to have the same converters inside, but with unbalanced connection... If your wires are for short runs, there is no problem with it.

The sound is fine, a lot better than the one onboard luna or pulsar, and you can ear it. There is obviously less noise because there is no interference outside. It work at 24/96, all 8 input / output at same time.

Would not sell mine for anything

Seriously, they are worth every penny i spent for it. And the ease of use of zlink (firewire) is great, no sync issues whatsoever, you just plug, and no need to pray

But whatever, if you can have the money, the A16U is really in the upper range of stuff. They can really compare with any oter converter available...They maybe are not apogee, but certainly plays in the same ligue, without a doubt.

They also use zlink to transfer all 16 channels at 24/96, but they also have adat IO to use in standalone with any digital setup, with a digital mixer for example.

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-07-14 15:15 ]

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:40 pm

I'll pray anyway!

I see... Yes, no doubt the a 16 would be among the best options. Could I connect it on my luna? The luna 2496 seems more financially realistic for the moment, since I also have other expenses to get the studio running.