The best way to record vocals

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:04 pm

Hi... on monday my new singer will get to my place for some recording work and for once I'd really like to do an effort to make it sound as good as possible with the equipment I've got.

When recording I got a tip from a friend that I should use a compressor when recording to disc and apply it just a little bit to get rid of the worst tops.

I got a Mackie VLZ-mixer, an AKG C1000 mic and all the usual Pulsar-stuff including Vinco & CompressorX.

ANY - and I mean any - suggestions and tips?

Thanks,

Carl.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:25 pm

Compressing prior to A/D conversion might help to increase the signal to noise ratio without risks of distortion. The signer might also increase the distance between him and the mic when hitting louder notes.

Try different compressing setting (before or after conversion) to see which is best suited for the occasion and trust your artistic sense...

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:52 pm

and if the singer asks for reverb to listen (they always do), in the name of god don't record reverbered sound!...

(i know you know, but singers are so funny sometimes...)

Herr Voigt · Post by **Herr Voigt** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:28 pm

But if you use the STM 1632 or higher, you can give the singer his reverb (it's important for him, sure) and record the dry signal with direct-out. I tried it, it's easy.
Good luck, Thomas

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:36 pm

make sure the singer understands the proximity effect of the mic... Thats one easy way to get very good sound.

petal · Post by **petal** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:12 pm

Perhaps you should buy the new issue of "Computer Music". That issue has a 4 pages long article called "The beginner's guide to vocal recording and production" - I haven't read it, but it might be something.

Or perhaps you will be able to find something interesting on these pages:

http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm

It's the best place I know for articles on everything that's related to making music.

Thomas

[ This Message was edited by: Petal on 2002-10-26 04:59 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:07 pm

You could also try this link :

http://www.m-audio.net/record_now_pdf/R ... ow_Mic.pdf

Pretty good demonstration with pictures and setup guide for about any mic recording techniques.

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-10-26 00:08 ]

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:48 am

be sure that you have same level, pan and reverb for already recorded and same level, pan and reverb for track you'll record.
singer (and you) must have the same sound before and after you press record.
i use cubase's bus 10 for track what i recording.

so, on 10 and 11 chanel of stm1632 i listen recorded and on 12 and 13 i listen mic (with same level, pan and reverb)!
those chanels i don't sent to master of stm - just thru direct out to micromix, then 10 and 11 to asio dest and everything to micromix for monitoring.
on this way you can change level on cubases's and stm1632 master bus, but you will keep the same level, pan and reverb for 10, 11, 12 and 13 chanel.
in yours case you will record mono, so you'll use only 10 ad 12 chanel.
uf, i hope that you can understand what i tried to say

princip is important!
ahgr!! it was to commplicated for my english

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:58 am

On 2002-10-26 00:07, marcuspocus wrote:
You could also try this link :

http://www.m-audio.net/record_now_pdf/R ... ow_Mic.pdf

Pretty good demonstration with pictures and setup guide for about any mic recording techniques.

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-10-26 00:08 ]

this is nice

where is vol.2?! or 3,4...5 maybe?!

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:20 am

I take it your only condenser mic is the C1000? It's a nice mic - not the one I'd use for vocals but if that's all you have, you can make do.

First of all, either buy or make a pop filter which you would mount in front of the mic. You can make a decent pop filter out of panty hose material stretched tightly across a hangar or something that you position in front of the mic. I usually position my filter about 3-4 inches in front of the mic.

As far as compression is concerned, keep a light setting. 2:1 should be fine with a fairly quick attack and medium release. Adjust the threshold so that at the highest peaks, the compressor kicks in. I try to avoid using compression up front and prefer to use Pulsar (Vinco or Level Devil) devices if needed. Some singers need compression, some don't. Don't use it if you don't need to. If you do need it, use sparingly.

After you've recorded the track, listen for high frequency notes and use the vocal S remover or EQ out around 6-8kHz.

Check http://www.studiobuddy.com for a nice little program that gives you many recording tips. It's free to download and install.

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:31 pm

A big thanks to all of you. Lot's of good advices in here, no double about that.

Regarding the compressor - I guess this is a stupid question - but what exactly would you guys recommend for attack and release settings.

And when it comes to microphones. I am thinking of buying a better mic, anything I should look after? It's mainly (99%) intended for vocals. I've heard lots of good things about the Rode microphones. Are they good for vocals?

Carl.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:49 pm

For compressor settings, I'd go with what was mensioned before. (was it krizrox) Fast attack, long release, very low ratio, high threshold. Then, you can fiddle with it aftwerwards. The threshold and ratio really depends on how your singer controls his breath. Some people, the volume fluctuates like crazy, and while others are steady, and need no compression.

Whatever it is, though, make a decision before you record, and DON'T MESS WITH IT! The worst you could have is a discontinuous recording. Then you'll have to retake everything.

Also, I think I'd stick with a clinical comp, like the ordinary Pulsar one. Then, I'd use vinco during the mixing phase.

But of course, all this depends on the material you're trying to record. What sort of sound are you trying to produce anyway?

AndreD · Post by **AndreD** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:32 am

Hi Ganool, I´m using two compressors in chain (after recording): 

<ul>
<li> The first to reduce dynamic on the whole track. (compressorX / fast attack and long release)</li>
<li>The 2nd to boost the attack-phase of syllables (Vinco / longer attack fast release) 
Hope this helps... 
</li>
</ul>
Best wishes,
Andre
http://www.hamburg-audio.de

[ This Message was edited by: Andre Dupke on 2002-10-27 05:04 ]

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:15 pm

I'm using the ADK a51, condenser microphone together with behringer ultragain pro, mic preamp to record anything that nedds to be recorded as accurate, transparent and GOOD sounding as possible. the preamp has a valve/tube in it so if you increase the input gain a bit you get a warm presence in the sound.

they're both avalible at musikbörsen for a total price of around 5000 sek.

around the same price you have to pay for a röde.

Lycka till!

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:18 pm

Hi again. Thanks for all your advices. Now the recording is done and it was very successful. One thing I've learned is that I NEED an external compressor. Fiddling with the Pulsar compressors for the recording was a nightmare! I'm thinking of using an old Dbx 266 Project One compressor for just having control over the peaks. After the recording I'd gladly use Vinco and CompressorX to get the sound I'm after.

I feel I need a real machine with real knobs - at least until I've leared to master the compressor.

Sounds like a good / bad idea?

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:20 pm

Re. ADK a51

Just one question... wouldn't my micpreamps in my Mackie VLZ-Pro be enough? From what I've heard they are of a very high standard. Or do I need another piece of equipment?

Herr Voigt · Post by **Herr Voigt** » Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:47 pm

Seems to be a very large topic...
I'm a beginner in mic recording. I bought a AT 4040 with a Tube MP Studio from The ART and it sounds very strong and crisp and MUCH better than a preamp of a Behringer mixer.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:58 pm

On 2002-10-28 13:20, Ganool wrote:
Re. ADK a51

Just one question... wouldn't my micpreamps in my Mackie VLZ-Pro be enough? From what I've heard they are of a very high standard. Or do I need another piece of equipment?

I use a mackie mixer (it's 1604-VLZ ) as a preamp source for years - successfuly. I don't know if the one you own has the same preamps, though.

_________________
Sir SamPlaire

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2002-10-28 18:02 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:20 am

a large diaphram condenser mic is the right choice.don't get the cheapest,don't get the most expensive,most of the rest will work great.use the best mic pre you can.the same rules apply as to price and quality in pres and mics,but if you don't have cash,you can make great music with what you've got...

whatever you can do to improve the room,will be the best thing you can do to improve the sound.at least use some rolled up blanets and/or sleeping bags,matresses or closets full of clothes(open),couches (turn them on end w/cushions in the corners of the room!)for bass traps.the more the merrier.

for shouters,place them a foot from the mic(or more or less to taste) for whisperers,6".......try to discourage both souting and whispering on the same take.(record each seperately if you can)but,if the material calls for both,err on the cold side and move them back.if you've done a good job with the room,you can move them well off the mic and not have them sound like they're in a strange box.(or like the mic's in the strange box)recording a little further from the mic will make the voice a little thinner(no proximity effect)but it will also record and blend cleaner and more evenly.(once again,not possible really if the room's got problems)

a 24 bit recording definitely has enuff headroom to record dry.the recording may seem a little cold,but you can always compress and add harmonic content(distortion tube or tape emulation or exciters,all basically distotion for warmth)later.

if the artists levels are unreliable,you MUST limit.compression would still be an option,but limiting sets a hard line that can't be passed(preventing digital distortion which sounds like garbage),so that a great performance would still be usable.

a pop filter is a good idea to stop p transients(quick bursts of energy that can be caused by the p sound)it also sets up a boundry to help keep the performer from eating the mic.as mentioned earlier, nylons and a coat hanger could easily make one.a more upgraded version would involve embroidery hoops.commercial versions are $30-$40.

hope this info's useful and not too late...

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:48 am

An external compressor is usually a good idea when recording vocals in order to control the transients prior to recording onto the 'puter. I use an Avalon or JoeMeek external preamp both of which have built-in compressors. Again, a mild setting like 2:1 is usually sufficient to control the transients. I've used entry-level dbx rackmount compressors and they're OK but no match for the JoeMeek or Avalon units. Get what you can afford and experiment until you get the best sound.

Some singers have very good control and you may find you don't need the external compressor. Use it if you need to, otherwise I'd say leave it out and use Vinco or something else later. Depends on the singer.

The Mackie preamps are very clean and quiet. If you don't have an external tube or higher quality mic preamp, the Mackie pre's should work fine. I rarely (if ever) use the channel strip EQ and prefer to leave things flat for recording. Then I'll use Pulsar eq's to reduce sibilance or whatever.

One tip: I usually always go in and edit out the quiet sections of a vocal track just to reduce the various mouth noises a singer makes in between verses. I guess an expander or noise gate will work too but the less junk I have to use, the better it will sound. Try to leave a little air before and after each verse to preserve the pre/post condition. It'll sound more natural that way.

Oh.. one other thing.. sometimes when using a compressor in front of the computer, you might find you're starting to pick up more of the room noise (or air or whatever you call it). Acoustical control becomes more necessary when using a compressor because it will tend to boost very low level signals.