Hello all i have a pulsar 2 and love it too life. i have generally used just the synths that came with the card. recently however i have a need for fatter sounds for hip hop and rnb production
in those cricles the main machine everyone is screaming about is the korg triton .
i was wondering from those here with experience are there some pulsar synths that i can purchase( a lot less money than the triton) that will give me equally phat sounds with arpegators and such.
forgive my ignorence if this is common knowledge.
i guess plainly i want to know of the synths we have that proudly stand toe to toe with the korg triton.
korg triton
it's funny how bad info will travel......
the korg is a NICE synth.it has the usual good korg samples which are nothing that a good sample cd and the sts can't give you.
as far as FAT goes,the korg is very thin compared to most sfp synths.the korg does however have reverb on most patches to hide that thinness.
as i said the korg is a great synth and if you want korg sounds it'll be great.i do hip hop plenty.yes, indeed! you can use the sounds everyone else uses(the ignorant, non-creative way which does NOT further the art form.it just copies what others have done.why not just steal someone elses tracks off a cd instrumental?)otr you can make your own sounds.(like those you admire,this takes talent,however)
i work in a used music store and i've seen fashion come and go.these trends are not even based on what people like,rather they're based on what companies want to sell and on people's lack of imagination and fear of the unknown.(i want what YOU used!)
making sounds fat requires the proper use of compressors,reverbs,eq's and other effects,but mainly compressors.
a better solution might be to use sounds from the triton,sfp,some old synth you just found in a pawn shop,the ice cream man going by your house,etc.the more sources for your sounds the more interesting your music........
thanks for giving me a place to vent!
oh,yeah..if you like p-funk then figure out the uknow 007 and the blue synth.mr clinton LOVES those old rolands..
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-10-15 12:31 ]</font>
the korg is a NICE synth.it has the usual good korg samples which are nothing that a good sample cd and the sts can't give you.
as far as FAT goes,the korg is very thin compared to most sfp synths.the korg does however have reverb on most patches to hide that thinness.
as i said the korg is a great synth and if you want korg sounds it'll be great.i do hip hop plenty.yes, indeed! you can use the sounds everyone else uses(the ignorant, non-creative way which does NOT further the art form.it just copies what others have done.why not just steal someone elses tracks off a cd instrumental?)otr you can make your own sounds.(like those you admire,this takes talent,however)
i work in a used music store and i've seen fashion come and go.these trends are not even based on what people like,rather they're based on what companies want to sell and on people's lack of imagination and fear of the unknown.(i want what YOU used!)
making sounds fat requires the proper use of compressors,reverbs,eq's and other effects,but mainly compressors.
a better solution might be to use sounds from the triton,sfp,some old synth you just found in a pawn shop,the ice cream man going by your house,etc.the more sources for your sounds the more interesting your music........
thanks for giving me a place to vent!
oh,yeah..if you like p-funk then figure out the uknow 007 and the blue synth.mr clinton LOVES those old rolands..
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-10-15 12:31 ]</font>
I have a Triton Pro here in my studio and you're right, it's one of the top picks for rap/hip hop/R&B/Pop with many of the producers here in the Chicago area.
How does it compare to the Pulsar synths? Well, first of all, I have a problem referring to the Triton as a "synth". I suppose if you have to call it something, "synth" is better than nothing. But the Triton is really more like a sampler with a built in sequencer and keyboard (someone please debate me on this - I may be way off base). Sure it has synth-like sounds but it also has a ton of other stuff (sound effects, noises, drums, etc.).
The Pulsar synths seem more like synthesizers in the traditional sense to me.
Sound-wise... I think they are more or less comparable but keep in mind a lot depends on what effects you add to the mix and we all know Pulsar has some great sounding effects. If you don't think Pulsar's synths can be phattened to your liking, check out some of the music samples here on PlanetZ. There are plenty of phat-sounding MP3's to listen to. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.
I will say this in closing - having both the Triton and the Pulsar synths at your disposal is like having the best of both worlds (virtual and carbon-based).
How does it compare to the Pulsar synths? Well, first of all, I have a problem referring to the Triton as a "synth". I suppose if you have to call it something, "synth" is better than nothing. But the Triton is really more like a sampler with a built in sequencer and keyboard (someone please debate me on this - I may be way off base). Sure it has synth-like sounds but it also has a ton of other stuff (sound effects, noises, drums, etc.).
The Pulsar synths seem more like synthesizers in the traditional sense to me.
Sound-wise... I think they are more or less comparable but keep in mind a lot depends on what effects you add to the mix and we all know Pulsar has some great sounding effects. If you don't think Pulsar's synths can be phattened to your liking, check out some of the music samples here on PlanetZ. There are plenty of phat-sounding MP3's to listen to. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.
I will say this in closing - having both the Triton and the Pulsar synths at your disposal is like having the best of both worlds (virtual and carbon-based).
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kensuguro
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Great question. Beat a Triton with STS? SURE! Anyday!
I've been on a Triton Pro, for about 4 years now, and using it as my main sound source. Sure, it's a decent synth. And as far as I know, if you kow how to treat each of the sounds, it's not quite as "thin" as everyone says it is. Though I do respect garyb's opinion in that it is, definitely, "thin" if it's not treated.
The main point is, a Triton is just a collection of samples. Samples that may not be obtainable through normal means, but it only means that it's nothing more than a sampler. And that, STS can do. So, if any sample is treated with the proper technology, then it can surely beat a Triton.
The cliche knowledge of a Triton being a "hip hop producer's standard gear" is merely a legend, I believe. Because as much as I like the Triton, I usually tend to use non-Triton samples when it comes to commercial work. Why? Because Triton samples are just too famous. Everyone's got it in their studio gear. So, yes, Triton is a standard. But BECAUSE it's a standard, you have to stay away from it!
But anyway, I'd suppose you're talking about drums in general... Look through the STS forum on PlanetZ, and you'll find plenty of samples to build your own kicks, snares from. Using these, you'll surely be able to build your own beats and ambiences! Triton is good, but don't rely on it!
To add on what I just said, Triton is famed because it's "easy CD quality sound". Why is it CD quality sound? Because half the samples have been pre-treated with proven formula effects. Say, the hip-hop kick drums have been treated with record noise, exaggerated comp, and some biased EQ. Sure, these will produce CD quality sound... because many people use the same forumla. But because this makes it so easy to acquire "that" sound, it keeps you from searching further. Like, "what if I changed the comp on this kick". So... well, it works both ways. A Triton's sample set is an easy solution.. while working from raw samples towards a professionally produced CD may take LOTS of experimenting. But learning it surely yields the benefits, and I'd say anyday, that it's definitely worth it.
A Triton is just another produced package. You can make the same thing through proper education... SO why depend on a pre-produced package?
All this, from a hard-core Triton user.
Oh yeah.. I've got a question... you want "fat", as in drums? or synth sounds? bass? It really depends. Cuz I don't think Triton drums are fat at all. My custom Mod2 drums are what I call fat.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-10-15 20:57 ]</font>
I've been on a Triton Pro, for about 4 years now, and using it as my main sound source. Sure, it's a decent synth. And as far as I know, if you kow how to treat each of the sounds, it's not quite as "thin" as everyone says it is. Though I do respect garyb's opinion in that it is, definitely, "thin" if it's not treated.
The main point is, a Triton is just a collection of samples. Samples that may not be obtainable through normal means, but it only means that it's nothing more than a sampler. And that, STS can do. So, if any sample is treated with the proper technology, then it can surely beat a Triton.
The cliche knowledge of a Triton being a "hip hop producer's standard gear" is merely a legend, I believe. Because as much as I like the Triton, I usually tend to use non-Triton samples when it comes to commercial work. Why? Because Triton samples are just too famous. Everyone's got it in their studio gear. So, yes, Triton is a standard. But BECAUSE it's a standard, you have to stay away from it!
But anyway, I'd suppose you're talking about drums in general... Look through the STS forum on PlanetZ, and you'll find plenty of samples to build your own kicks, snares from. Using these, you'll surely be able to build your own beats and ambiences! Triton is good, but don't rely on it!
To add on what I just said, Triton is famed because it's "easy CD quality sound". Why is it CD quality sound? Because half the samples have been pre-treated with proven formula effects. Say, the hip-hop kick drums have been treated with record noise, exaggerated comp, and some biased EQ. Sure, these will produce CD quality sound... because many people use the same forumla. But because this makes it so easy to acquire "that" sound, it keeps you from searching further. Like, "what if I changed the comp on this kick". So... well, it works both ways. A Triton's sample set is an easy solution.. while working from raw samples towards a professionally produced CD may take LOTS of experimenting. But learning it surely yields the benefits, and I'd say anyday, that it's definitely worth it.
A Triton is just another produced package. You can make the same thing through proper education... SO why depend on a pre-produced package?
All this, from a hard-core Triton user.
Oh yeah.. I've got a question... you want "fat", as in drums? or synth sounds? bass? It really depends. Cuz I don't think Triton drums are fat at all. My custom Mod2 drums are what I call fat.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-10-15 20:57 ]</font>
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kensuguro
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In the mean while, here's a mod2 patch that should help you beef up your STS beats
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=15&4
It's a basic multi comp with overdriver on each channel, plus a limiter at the end. Too bad it's mono though. It's one of my favorites.
Also, you may want to use a chain of light, light reverb ->Finaliza (multicomp) to pre-beef your drum loops before your chop them up. It's a quick way to produce a heavy, "in 'yo face", break beat drum loop to use for your hip-hop productions. Please ask me for more info cuz I'm very involved with the hip-hop culture.
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=15&4
It's a basic multi comp with overdriver on each channel, plus a limiter at the end. Too bad it's mono though. It's one of my favorites.
Also, you may want to use a chain of light, light reverb ->Finaliza (multicomp) to pre-beef your drum loops before your chop them up. It's a quick way to produce a heavy, "in 'yo face", break beat drum loop to use for your hip-hop productions. Please ask me for more info cuz I'm very involved with the hip-hop culture.
thanks a million guys this is exactly what i needed to hear i just purchased the sts 5000 about a month ago, and i would rather be creative than going with a standard, from what eveyone says though you think the machine can walk on water.
i can't tell you how much i appreciate your help, it's like i've been freed to get out of the Box , but with the confidense that i can still make some quality stuff without what everyone else has.
being fairly new to recording and making music you hear the difference between what you make and what they make and assume it it all the equipment when from what i have been reading equipment is good but the knowledge of great production tips comp, eq can take you just as far.
kind of like a sword is useless in the hands of a coward.
thank you!!!!!
i can't tell you how much i appreciate your help, it's like i've been freed to get out of the Box , but with the confidense that i can still make some quality stuff without what everyone else has.
being fairly new to recording and making music you hear the difference between what you make and what they make and assume it it all the equipment when from what i have been reading equipment is good but the knowledge of great production tips comp, eq can take you just as far.
kind of like a sword is useless in the hands of a coward.
thank you!!!!!
Hey kenseguro
i want to fatten all three really drums synths and basses, that was a hot tip about doing some work on the loops BEfore i cut em up. Never thought of that.
thanks for any help or advise you can give i will try out what you said already when i get off work today so i will have better questions for suggestion after that
can you elaborate on this please
"treated with proven formula effects"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samuel40 on 2002-10-16 11:58 ]</font>
i want to fatten all three really drums synths and basses, that was a hot tip about doing some work on the loops BEfore i cut em up. Never thought of that.
thanks for any help or advise you can give i will try out what you said already when i get off work today so i will have better questions for suggestion after that
can you elaborate on this please
"treated with proven formula effects"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samuel40 on 2002-10-16 11:58 ]</font>
well,first dynamics control(compression)then reverb.....really, those samples are just well recorded by pro engineers.you can download samples off the net or buy sample cd's that should help you.i'd put the reverbs on last when you create the ambiance for the whole song.sometimes those great sounding premades are not so great when you put the whole thing together as the factory treatments clash with what YOU want to do...
sandwiching multiple sounds helps sometimes too..really, there is no one formula for great sounds.you have to get experience as an engineer and learn to trust your ears.
compressors eqs and exciters are your main weapons.delays and reverbs are the finishing polish which create an imaginary environment for the sounds to live in.
ears,ears,ears.......
lots of articles here: http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-10-16 12:24 ]</font>
sandwiching multiple sounds helps sometimes too..really, there is no one formula for great sounds.you have to get experience as an engineer and learn to trust your ears.
compressors eqs and exciters are your main weapons.delays and reverbs are the finishing polish which create an imaginary environment for the sounds to live in.
ears,ears,ears.......
lots of articles here: http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-10-16 12:24 ]</font>
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kensuguro
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well, I was meaning that lots of Triton sounds are cliche sounds from different fields, treated to make it sound "sort of" like something from, say hip hop. Each field or style has a set of semi-formulated way of applying effects (but as garyb says, it's not completely formulated) which gives that style its sonic character. The people who built Triton tried to captures many of these. But since we have the tools to do exactly the same, we can treat whatever samples we want, and come up with similar, or often better sounds.
Feel free to mail me anytime if you need some tips.
Feel free to mail me anytime if you need some tips.
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kensuguro
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Most of the time I use it as a "pre-preparation". Some effects may come after it.. but if I'm content with the results, I'd rather leave it.
You can also try a reverb->stereo to mono->machoman patch. That creates a nice ambience sometimes. Usually I use 2 machomans.. one for kick+hats, and the other for snare+hats, and then I also mix in some dry hat signal 'till I get enough highs.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-10-17 14:53 ]</font>
You can also try a reverb->stereo to mono->machoman patch. That creates a nice ambience sometimes. Usually I use 2 machomans.. one for kick+hats, and the other for snare+hats, and then I also mix in some dry hat signal 'till I get enough highs.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-10-17 14:53 ]</font>