let the bass live.. man.. (reverb talk)

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:15 am

Recently I've been working a lot by just passing a 2 mix (finalmix) through a reverb. Just to make the quick jobs even quicker. So I do it initially with my Yamaha DSP Factory just to get a feel of how it would sound. And then, after I record the dry signal, I reverb it again with Masterverb. (thinking it'll yield better results) But surprisingly, Masterverb ain't good at all with mixed signals. Why? Simply because the response is too flat. The only colorization I can do is either in the hipass/lopass filter section, or with the Hidamp control. Either way, I can only cut away from the signal, and not have anything boosted.

The effect I'm looking for is like this

See the knobs "HI.RATIO" and "LO.RATIO"? Hi goes from 0-1.0. So basically, you can only damp the HI's. But the LO.RATIO knob goes from 0-2.4, meaning you can actually boost it in someway (so it reverbs more). This seems to be a little more than just pre EQ. And somehow, this knob saves me alot of trouble.
By the way, the gate section on the right does some neat tricks.

Usually, to get a sort of similar effect with Masterverb, I have to load in another Masterverb just for the lows, and mix that in. But, that's a bit different as you'd imagine, from the Yamaha reverb. It's not about the mix of signals, but more about having different frequency zones "living" longer within the reverb tail. (was that clear?)

Well, the easy answer is... use the goddam Yamaha reverb. But the tech freak in me says there's gotta be a way to do it in Pulsar.. I checked all the reverb devices.. Masterverb Pro, Goldverb, and the Timeworks one, but they all seem to be working under a similar format. It's always just a hipass/lopass, damp combo. Goldverb does have a way to boost signals.. but then, it's too DSP heavy and the newest version doesn't work in SFP.. But I haven't checked Paul Tanti's line.. how do they work?

Well it's the all classical reverb comparison.. but always fun nonetheless. The topic this time would be "colorization". (in contrast to previous "quality" related talks)

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-10-10 07:16 ]

visilia · Post by **visilia** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:24 am

It's not a shelving filter, but the Timeworks Reverb has a one band parametric EQ. I think you can have similar results as the Yamaha reverb when using this with a low Q setting.

edit:
Or are these filters of the Yamaha reverb in the feedback chain of the reverb (like a reverb damping filter)? If this is the case, The EQ of the Timeworks reverb isn't what you want, because that one is post reverb.

cheers,
vincent

[ This Message was edited by: visilia on 2002-10-10 08:29 ]

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:42 am

Strange, isn´t it ? The most low cost native VST reverbs have more worth for their money than our professional creamware gear.

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2002-10-10 08:47 ]

visilia · Post by **visilia** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:07 am

Well, I have heard good things about Reverb.it from Silverspike, but unfortunately it lacks Early Reflections, which is a very important part of a reverb for me. Do you care to tell what these low cost native reverbs are you're refering to?

cheers,
vincent

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:56 am

Hi visilia,
I bought myself the WaveArts Surround DX, it have a superb sound and all parameters you need. 89.95$ . The MasterVerb from WaveArts costs more but has a ultimate GUI,a 2D window where you can setup your room bye small mouse movements. http://www.wavearts.com

Look at Spinaudio.com Room Verb full "colorizeable" 74€ or the whole bundle for 195$.
For short room reverbs ,maybe on drums I use the free Room Machine844.
Of course you can say ,eh 90$ is not low cost, but compare it with the Renaisance Reverb 300$ or CW´s Masterverb Pro 198€.
I don´t say that CW products are nothing worth but there is more movement and improvisation in VST effects.
Look around.

Cheers

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:14 am

visilia, I think the filter I'm referring to happens to be within the feedback chain. (hence the biased gain) Doesn't seem to be hard thing to do... well, maybe a native solution would be quick.. but then what the heck, I might as well use the Yamaha I've got right now.

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:57 am

thanks for info, chris,

new wavearts sounds fantastic to me

kensuguro, try 30days full-working demo!

try trackplug too!?

_________________
got my mojo working, but it just won't work on you

[ This Message was edited by: sandrob on 2002-10-10 11:00 ]

Post by **garyb** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:06 pm

why not insert an eq b4 or after the 'verb?or if you really want to be tricky,you could return the verb to a channel and use the aux to bus a portion of the original signal to the eq...

or just be sensible and return the 'verb to a channel and eq with the channel eq...

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-10-10 13:07 ]

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:17 pm

... think modular..

EarlyFirst · Post by **EarlyFirst** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:09 pm

But I haven't checked Paul Tanti's line.. how do they work?

They have the shelving filters but the demo's do not allow you to play with them
(sorry)

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:27 pm

coming to think of it, I still wonder why I don't have one of your reverbs Paul... I should get one. I just never know when you're going to be out with a newer, better one!

thermos · Post by **thermos** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:02 pm

if i understood you correctly??

My suggestion will be to split the signal into "freq areas" hi, mid, low and then feed each area into its own verb and mix them together again.

i think celmo has a frequenze splitter.
if you try this, then try to use differnt verbs for different signals that could be intersting, throw in a delay and delay either the hi or mid signal with a few ms. that could make some nice ambience aswell.

I think subtle is the key word here.

thermos

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:18 pm

http://www.planetz.com/Pulsar/files/mod ... plitVU.mdl

It was Joeka with a great freq.spliter..

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:29 pm

i need m-s spliter?

Post by **garyb** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:12 pm

need,neED,NEED!!!

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:39 pm

On 2002-10-10 18:18, ChrisWerner wrote:
http://www.planetz.com/Pulsar/files/mod ... plitVU.mdl

It was Joeka with a great freq.spliter..

Ehh, that link makes a lot of strange symbols :/

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:42 am

ya need to shift-click, or save link target as file.
it's a mod2 patch.

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 2:14 am

Ken

did you look into native Silverspike and Ultrafunk verbs?

Sunshine · Post by **Sunshine** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:20 pm

Hmm Kenseguru, when a reverb doesn´t work on a final mix, it shouldn´t be the Eq-ing that makes that reverb sit right. It´s probably the reverb itself, that is not suitable for the task. When putting a reverb over your final mix, you do that because it lacks a certain continuity in feel (too many dry and wet differences). By adding an overall reverb you gather all the elements that are present in a mix and put them into one single ambience. But a strongly Eq`ed reverb will change the spectral balance of the mix and shouldn´t be used in that case. The algo should be transparent as possible whithout the slightest coloration. M3000 is often used in that case because of its "no sound". I´ve heard in different forums that there are some plugs availible that do fairly good job in that regard.

Regards,
Bernhard

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:51 pm

well, yeah, you're definitely right. Just that the situation I was facing was kind of different... as in, I did everything dry, and just needed to push it through a reverb. The job was a quicky, so I didn't want to bother with balancing dry/wet for each channel... And whatever it was, the Yamaha reverb did a fine job at it. So I was actually using the reverb to colorize the mix.. (or should I say I tried to fix the mix within the reverb) Not a good way, but it's just quick. Thanx for y'all's tips tho!