Room EQ Wizard (REW) and Scope ASIO not getting along...

[auntybiotic]

Greetings all,

I am trying to use the Room EQ Wizard (REW) software to assist in acoustically treating my room.

Whenever I select the 'Scope ASIO' as the input device within REW, i get a freeze which requires a reboot.

I am wondering if anyone else has tried using this with the scope asio drivers and if they experienced the same issues or not?

It probably isnt a scope issue BUT would appreciate any thoughts / comments as usual.

Best regards
Mark

[ehasting]

Problem with bitwig and digital performer - kind of same issue. It's probably something about the sound engine framework in use.

[garyb]

some newer programs are using ASIO features that allow the program to setup the soundcard. unfortunately, a Scope card is not a soundcard. it's external audio hardware with a GUI inside the computer. the host app can't control it through the usual control panel or otherwise. the OS has absolutely no idea what happens inside the card's environment. the driver merely presents the stream to the computer or receives it. if the program is made the way i think it was, ASIO will never work with that program, because the card cannot respond to the queries from the app.

in all honesty, there is little value to REW or ANY attempt to improve the sound of a room through EQ. at best, an eq can adjust for a flat response in one very small part of the room. you are better off just learning the room's and the speakers' response and mixing accordingly. EQs create phase anomalies that can actually mask things that you want to hear. i'm telling you this after some 30-35 years of experience with a high-level home studio. the ONLY way to fix the speakers or the room is with the proper acoustic treatment of the room. an EQ is a waste of time. what you need is DIFFUSION and BASS TRAPS. this does not need to be anything extravagant, but it's the only way to get a usable room.

anyway, if you can, you might try the wave driver.

[dante]

Listen to your mix at low volume occasionally. That way the effect of room acoustics will be reduced.

[auntybiotic]

no, i am using the rew software, via a measurement omni sdc, to analyse a new live jazz cafe venue, approximately 75m2. It has huge resonance issues.... i will be the 'audio guy '...

My calculations so far suggest I have unwanted low frequency pressure issues at the following frequencies:
71, 78, 141, 145, 212, 213, 223, 214, 282, 283, 284, 291 between + 7 dB - + 9 dB over acceptable.

For a live venue, my reverberation, reflections, (RT-60) time must be lowered into the 1 - 2 sec. range wheras i am currently around 4 seconds with all the hard surfaces.

Low frequency absorption along with middle and high frequency absorption will be required so i want to home in on the offending frequencies in order to dial the room in to something i absolutely do not need to 'EQ' on the desk..

As you may now realise i am not a bedroom guy

i had hoped to use my xite-1 to do this, but as it seems it may not be possible i will have to pull out my old motu bummer

the rew sw allows you to analyse your room in order to treat the room. it doesnt 'fix' eq, etc....it just gives you waterfall plots across the frequency spectrum to home in on the problems..

[garyb]

sure, of course, this is important.

the wave driver won't work? that's a bummer....

[auntybiotic]

it is strange and annoying.. i see the xite-1 as a valid device in both the wave and ASIO options of the sw, yet the wave simply won't work and selecting the scope asio crashes the sw....
i think you are right that it is demanding too much control over the scope hw which scope would not allow.
it's probably a good thing as it means i finally have a use for my old motu and my xite-1 will stay in my home rack
thanks for the ideas & suggestions anyway !

[jksuperstar]

You can instead try a work-around. Use ASIO drivers, but do it through ASIO4ALL, and connect that to the wave deivers of scope. Google asio4all...

Also, a cafe that can afford use of an xite-1, ought to be able to spend a small sum on ceiling panels to reduce reflections. The people will take care of the floor (you are measuring with people in the room?!)

[garyb]

good call!

[auntybiotic]

Ha ha No, the cafe is being started by my friend, who has spent his entire fortune getting the place ready, and is relying on me as a friend to sort his áudio' stuff out
He is lucky i have an Xite-1 and live 20 meters from the cafe haha


Great tip on the asio4all - i had used this for other things but was more wondering if it was an xite issue or dodgy sw.. & i didn't think of trying to hook it up to the scope wave driver....nice 1 !!

Thanks again and I will let you know if it works. I will also post pics of the treatment i end up doing, hopefully with the xite

And finally, I will be building all of his traps / diffusors / absorbers...that's why i need a good room measurement..

[garyb]

awesome!

[Eanna]

For those that have issues with some software that won't start if Scope ASIO is available ...

I posted a workaround for this, that means Scope ASIO is not available... Which is obviously not the ideal scenario for many.....

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... 72#p316071

[spacef]

Had lots of problem setting it up even exiting scope does not get rid of the xite driver scan, and REW freezes.
I had to use a seperate laptop with a behringer soundcard to do measurments :-/

Now I can have the EQ filters on wave drivers of the main PC, ie XITE Wave drivers, using APO Equalizer and it sounds better than without, at least interesting to hear it like that.

Also generated an IR for the DAW Master, but it is an IR not made with Scope (made on the laptop).
I think it is useful to correct the speakers a bit (especially old ones like mine) - it gives another perspective.
And even without active corrections, making measurments shows interesting stuff.

===========
QUESTION:
I have not found a VST Eq that imports text files from REW like APO does. ANy idea ? (free preferably)
Should I do an REW to APO to Scope Equalizer ?
So, values would be entered manually (and can be adjusted more easily than an IR).
it looks like REW outputs on a 18 band EQ. That can be done (stereo, that's a 36 bands EQ).
Unless a C++ dev can do it directly to import text files from REW inside scope.



But is is a pity if Scope 7 ASIO make this kind of app freeze or crash even when Xite is not running ...

[Rafe]

You don't mention but I'm sure you'll have tried Asio4All and this is still failing?

From the REW help - "The ASIO drivers support up to 1536 kHz and a variety of formats depending on the driver. ASIO drivers support one ASIO device which must be used for both input and output and REW has no control over levels. Pseudo-ASIO drivers such as ASIO4All create an ASIO wrapper around the WDM drivers for devices, allowing input and output through different devices."

I wish you best of luck

[spacef]

yes, I tried a lot of things, unsuccessfully as reflected by the tone of my post
At some point I just needed to get things done eventhough it is not the best way... :-/

However, one hope is that I may have noticed that it is not actually "stuck forever" , but just takes an infinite amount of time to load (like, it could take an hour... I am testing this right now, yesterday I forgot to close this window and it finally scanned everything... not tested wether it is useable though, not with scope asio anyway, but for using something else)...


Just to help point out that ASIO seems to be a high priority , eventhoguh I understand it may be complex and non generic (I just don't want Scope to end up like noah :-/ , that's like my own nightmare, lol - I posted aftr finding myself looking at soundcards on the market that could be connected to scope where scope is just synths and effects .... but well, I am not in a hurry at all)

PIC BELOW Stuck forever ?

[spacef]

Hi all,
Just to update because, after a long while, REW unfreezes and displays all audio drivers, and asio4all can be selected (scope xite cannot, it crashes the PC immediately). it can take long, like half an hour or more (just let it run and do something else, after a long while it should get out of the "frozen state" shown above).

However, asio4all is not a solution for me, because I need to use xite microphone inputs and did not have the time to experiment :-/
so another pc and soundcard was the only solution that allowed me to measure the room with the sound coming out of scope (laptop+behringer soundcard connected to PC+Xite through an A16 analog inputs, with a patchbay in between, which is probably not the best setup... but i could get some work done).

I have posted a "REW EQ for Scope": just a lot of param equalizer where REW values can be input manually (it will need adjustment because it does not have the same result as with APO equalizer). Not perfect but it works.
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