I’m sure that this will generate quite a few replies and discussions, and in a sense it is a request for help.
I recently realised that it’s FIVE YEARS since I actually completed a track. Okay, work has got in the way at times, I’ve was disillusioned for a while & left the music alone and I’ve also completely changed all my kit due to winning Cubase VST 5.1/32 (see other posts where I mention this). I have got lots of bits of experiments lying around my hard disk– but I’ve stopped writing! All I seem to do is doodle and fiddle.
I’m in the fortunate position that I will be retiring at the grand old age of 48 in 4 week’s time. I have now got plenty of time to spend on my favourite hobby of music. The problem is I’m terrified of not being able to write again and I’ve got writers’ block!
Have any of you, from time to time, suffered from writers’ block?
How do you get around it?
Do you look back over your old tapes and CD’s and think “that was all rubbish – why continue?”
I know that, coming from a midi-only background and now surrounded by audio, samplers, effect processors, the ability to programme analogue synths (a very weak area for me) etc. etc, I’m probably suffering from technology overload too. So, have any of you guys out there felt the same, and how did you deal with it?
Having listened to EVERY track in the music forum (does this deserve a medal?) there are some very prolific and skilled musicians and composers on Planet Z. I can’t be the only one to have looked at a blank set of staves and opted for the shutdown command can I? I can’t be the only one who has wondered if I’ve used up all my ideas can I?
So if there are any music psychologists out there – help please! I’m sure we all have lots of ideas to share and help each other with.
By the way – the text looks like I’m suicidal or really depressed at the moment – don’t worry, I’m feeling fine, but concerned!
Any Psychologists out there?
Okay heres my thoughts on the subject, Im not an expert by any means, but I have suffered writers block before.....
In my experience when you have those times when you can't seem to write/compose anything decent it comes from setting too high an expectation on yourself.....
I know what would happen to me is I'd plug away at something and it would never quite come together, so I'd give up and start again, or leave it unfinished.
Listening to other peoples music will not help either, okay you can get ideas. But you will feel the need to try and do better or as good as this music. Which sets yourself an uphill struggle.
My point is that you have to allow yourself to write music that is crap/not up to your usual standard...(bear with me) so that you can get a feeling of closure.
And you might find that eventually after about 4 or 5 songs that you finish, you might completely surprise yourself on the sixth, and be doing your best work.
Also someone might really really like one of the other songs that you don't consider up to scratch.
The point is to compose/write what you feel and not put constraints on yourself that hamper creativity such as....
"not catchy enough"
"heard it somewhere before"
"others won't like it"
"I haven't written anything decent in ages"
For all you know the song might suddenly take on a new direction, don't give up.
My first piano teacher taught me an important lesson, if you tell yourself something is hard, or that you can't do it. Theres a 90% chance that you will find it hard, or won't be able to do it. Because of the barriers you set up in your mind.
At the end of the day you compose music for you, so do like Nike...... Just do it.
_________________
Add life to your days, not days to your life.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: remixme on 2002-08-28 06:22 ]</font>
In my experience when you have those times when you can't seem to write/compose anything decent it comes from setting too high an expectation on yourself.....
I know what would happen to me is I'd plug away at something and it would never quite come together, so I'd give up and start again, or leave it unfinished.
Listening to other peoples music will not help either, okay you can get ideas. But you will feel the need to try and do better or as good as this music. Which sets yourself an uphill struggle.
My point is that you have to allow yourself to write music that is crap/not up to your usual standard...(bear with me) so that you can get a feeling of closure.
And you might find that eventually after about 4 or 5 songs that you finish, you might completely surprise yourself on the sixth, and be doing your best work.
Also someone might really really like one of the other songs that you don't consider up to scratch.
The point is to compose/write what you feel and not put constraints on yourself that hamper creativity such as....
"not catchy enough"
"heard it somewhere before"
"others won't like it"
"I haven't written anything decent in ages"
For all you know the song might suddenly take on a new direction, don't give up.
My first piano teacher taught me an important lesson, if you tell yourself something is hard, or that you can't do it. Theres a 90% chance that you will find it hard, or won't be able to do it. Because of the barriers you set up in your mind.
At the end of the day you compose music for you, so do like Nike...... Just do it.
_________________
Add life to your days, not days to your life.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: remixme on 2002-08-28 06:22 ]</font>
Hey,
I know that problem. I think sometimes you get into a rut in life and the creativity stops. My advice would be to change your context - take a trip somewhere - don't even think about the music just go out an soak up stuff happening in the world - listen to the world around you. Spend time doing things you don't normally do. When you are not looking the music will come sneaking back.
The other key thing once you have your ideas back is to have discipline - make sure you work on your ideas and not let them go to waste half explored.
One thing I do as well that I find very helpful is to get involved in collaborative projects - I did a whole stack of theater work a while ago and I get involved in remix type projects of mailing lists once in a while - sometimes its really good to work within tight constraints.
On a related note I realized recently that the biggest influence on my music was the track 4'33" by John Cage. The idea that music is in the world around you - the rhythm of the air conditioner, the tones of people talking in far off rooms. The shifting of the building with the daily temperature shifts.
Anyhow - good luck - and congrats on the early retirment (you lucky sod
)
I know that problem. I think sometimes you get into a rut in life and the creativity stops. My advice would be to change your context - take a trip somewhere - don't even think about the music just go out an soak up stuff happening in the world - listen to the world around you. Spend time doing things you don't normally do. When you are not looking the music will come sneaking back.
The other key thing once you have your ideas back is to have discipline - make sure you work on your ideas and not let them go to waste half explored.
One thing I do as well that I find very helpful is to get involved in collaborative projects - I did a whole stack of theater work a while ago and I get involved in remix type projects of mailing lists once in a while - sometimes its really good to work within tight constraints.
On a related note I realized recently that the biggest influence on my music was the track 4'33" by John Cage. The idea that music is in the world around you - the rhythm of the air conditioner, the tones of people talking in far off rooms. The shifting of the building with the daily temperature shifts.
Anyhow - good luck - and congrats on the early retirment (you lucky sod
)__________________________________________
junklight - dark experimental electronics
http://www.junklight.com
junklight - dark experimental electronics
http://www.junklight.com
Hi Neil
I know exactly how you feel, mate. A while ago I posted a similar cry for creative help here and received some great advice that got me back into the swing of things. The thread is here: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=7&29
Cheers,
Retro
I know exactly how you feel, mate. A while ago I posted a similar cry for creative help here and received some great advice that got me back into the swing of things. The thread is here: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=7&29
Cheers,
Retro
I second the advice about getting out, since the more you try and sit and will things to happen, the more tense and stress you'll get and the more difficult it will all become.
Then after your break decide to just doodle. Have fun. Don't feel like you're really going to do anything serious. When you start really having fun and just enjoying fiddling with the gear then your mood will translate into the music.
Because if you're not having fun with it, then what's the point ? (Unless it's your job
)
Then after your break decide to just doodle. Have fun. Don't feel like you're really going to do anything serious. When you start really having fun and just enjoying fiddling with the gear then your mood will translate into the music.
Because if you're not having fun with it, then what's the point ? (Unless it's your job
)-
Neil B
Thanks for the tips and the threads to date - I'm beginning to feel better already!
Junklight - interesting about the John Cage track. I think that I saw this performed many years ago by a drummer. Is this the track where he uses 4 different sets of drumsticks but never actually hits a drum and where the 4 sections can be any length that the musician wants as long as they add up to the title?
Junklight - interesting about the John Cage track. I think that I saw this performed many years ago by a drummer. Is this the track where he uses 4 different sets of drumsticks but never actually hits a drum and where the 4 sections can be any length that the musician wants as long as they add up to the title?
I am also in the gorup of people, who sometimes are in a creative sleep. Most often it helps to put off the stress to deliver something usefull. Like, I play very little piano, but at times it is just geat to look up a random word in my dictionary and then play the piano. Not trying to hard to play the word, but sensing, how the sounds corresponds to the word. The word can be "positive"or "negative" - I think it is a good thing in life to accept (maybe even become friends with) both the positive and the negative sides. It can realy free up a lot of resources.
I think there has been put up some very opposite and still very usefull sugestions - freeform to disstress and dicipline to get a work flow.
Immanuel
I think there has been put up some very opposite and still very usefull sugestions - freeform to disstress and dicipline to get a work flow.
Immanuel
Information for new readers: A forum member named Braincell is known for spreading lies and malicious information without even knowing the basics of, what he is talking about. If noone responds to him, it is because he is ignored.
I believe in the power of unconscient processes in our brains.
Just relax, do others things, take good times, don't focus yourself on being creative; your brain will do the job at unconscious levels.
I believe life got rythms: we can't always stay on top, we need to accept to go down for a while for climbing on tops at another time, I believe it's just like that...2 cents
Just relax, do others things, take good times, don't focus yourself on being creative; your brain will do the job at unconscious levels.
I believe life got rythms: we can't always stay on top, we need to accept to go down for a while for climbing on tops at another time, I believe it's just like that...2 cents
Toujours l'Amour!
i was (and i am) moire or less in the same situation. i often say to myself "I have no more ideas" after having composed a whole lenght album in about two years.
but the ansewer is: just play... sometimes i just put my hand on my keyboard and play (even if i'm a guitarist, and i don't play keys very well). just to have fun. but at some point, i come into something and i say: "wow! this is good!" and i write it on paper. even if they are just four notes.
i have a booklet when, i some months, i wrote about 50 short music ideas. some of them became a song, some of them i realized after that are crap.
i think the ideas about making music came out only if you play.
but the ansewer is: just play... sometimes i just put my hand on my keyboard and play (even if i'm a guitarist, and i don't play keys very well). just to have fun. but at some point, i come into something and i say: "wow! this is good!" and i write it on paper. even if they are just four notes.
i have a booklet when, i some months, i wrote about 50 short music ideas. some of them became a song, some of them i realized after that are crap.
i think the ideas about making music came out only if you play.
I'd also support that different activities and relaxing phases are most important.
What Grok said is also a common experience in sports: you do your best competition just after that relaxing phase - if you did some workout before
Could it be that the recording app also has some influence ?
The bits 'n pieces approach with lots of tweaks here and options there.
That's what my problem with sequencers is about. I like realtime recording and when things are running great, all I'd need would be one button to push and catch 8 to 12 tracks. Every action more would interupt the process running.
Don't misunderstand this as a program bash in whatever direction. I simply get the feeling those apps taking too much attention at the creative part of recording, while they are perfectly suited for postproduction.
cheers, Tom
What Grok said is also a common experience in sports: you do your best competition just after that relaxing phase - if you did some workout before
Could it be that the recording app also has some influence ?
The bits 'n pieces approach with lots of tweaks here and options there.
That's what my problem with sequencers is about. I like realtime recording and when things are running great, all I'd need would be one button to push and catch 8 to 12 tracks. Every action more would interupt the process running.
Don't misunderstand this as a program bash in whatever direction. I simply get the feeling those apps taking too much attention at the creative part of recording, while they are perfectly suited for postproduction.
cheers, Tom
-
Neil B
I’ve had the time to sit and reflect on the responses to date to this thread and I must say that I’m really grateful for all your tips and ideas. In particular:
Remixme: This really helped me – all of it. Thanks. I liked your comment about “you have to allow yourself to write music that is c**p” – I always have done – I’d just like to get back to writing new c**p (he says happily)!
Junklight: I agree with you about discipline too – that is a problem with so much to go at and so much technology overload. I think the best thing will be to get the notation in place and then think about the production. It’s too easy to get sidetracked. My only wish is that I could visualise the finished product as I write (thinking about EQ, reverb etc). But this is the learning curve, so discipline is the way to go. Perhaps I’ll split my time into composing days and studying days etc.
Oh yeh, thanks for the congrats too – yes, I am a lucky s*d!!!!!!
Retro: Thanks – the thread was a real help and it’s nice to know I’m not the only one.
Immanuel: What a positive approach! I thought that I had writers’ block but it is only a creative sleep. Thanks, I’ll remember that.
Astroman: I can relate with the recording app sometimes stifling creativity – I’ve recorded straight to 4 track in the past with minimal gear and the inspiration stayed for the whole session. It’s when you start mixing the first 32 bars, editing bum notes, inserting volume ramps etc that you forget what you were composing in the first place.
Spirit, Grok & Bosone: Thanks for your comments too – I’ll certainly be relaxing more in a few weeks time, although I’m getting close to comatose even now, but I take on board what you mean about relaxing about the writers’, sorry, creative sleep!
Thanks again guys.
I have an idea……………..
Remixme: This really helped me – all of it. Thanks. I liked your comment about “you have to allow yourself to write music that is c**p” – I always have done – I’d just like to get back to writing new c**p (he says happily)!
Junklight: I agree with you about discipline too – that is a problem with so much to go at and so much technology overload. I think the best thing will be to get the notation in place and then think about the production. It’s too easy to get sidetracked. My only wish is that I could visualise the finished product as I write (thinking about EQ, reverb etc). But this is the learning curve, so discipline is the way to go. Perhaps I’ll split my time into composing days and studying days etc.
Oh yeh, thanks for the congrats too – yes, I am a lucky s*d!!!!!!
Retro: Thanks – the thread was a real help and it’s nice to know I’m not the only one.
Immanuel: What a positive approach! I thought that I had writers’ block but it is only a creative sleep. Thanks, I’ll remember that.
Astroman: I can relate with the recording app sometimes stifling creativity – I’ve recorded straight to 4 track in the past with minimal gear and the inspiration stayed for the whole session. It’s when you start mixing the first 32 bars, editing bum notes, inserting volume ramps etc that you forget what you were composing in the first place.
Spirit, Grok & Bosone: Thanks for your comments too – I’ll certainly be relaxing more in a few weeks time, although I’m getting close to comatose even now, but I take on board what you mean about relaxing about the writers’, sorry, creative sleep!
Thanks again guys.
I have an idea……………..
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kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: BPM 60 to somewhere around 150
- Contact:
Another writer's block! One way to view it, yeah, I sympathize with you. The other way to view it? A comper's block is a very good oppertunity to learn and try things that you normally wouldn't. In otherwords, it's all part of the composing process, I think. .
Funny that you said:
I agree with you about discipline too ? that is a problem with so much to go at and so much technology overload. I think the best thing will be to get the notation in place and then think about the production. It?fs too easy to get sidetracked. My only wish is that I could visualise the finished product as I write (thinking about EQ, reverb etc). But this is the learning curve, so discipline is the way to go. Perhaps I?fll split my time into composing days and studying days etc.
"easy to get sidetracked"..? I'd supposed most of what I do is a product of being sidetracked from life itself! hehe. Don't be so tough on yourself. Sidetrack all you want. Especially during your writer's block. Side track so much that you forget where you started, and become immersed, even obsessed with what you're doing at the moment. Isn't that what composing's supposed to be like anyway? hehe.
I dunno.. It seems like taking anything to the extreme is good for an extreme situation like this. Eat awesome food. Drink awesome wine. Find awesome chicks? (if that's a choice) Let's go get some chaos!
But, of course, that's the inspirational/mental side of composing, and like you said, there might be some academic stuff that you might want to persue. It's really up to you man. The thing is, you shouldn't feel like there's pressure to do anything, or to be anything. Who cares if the academics and mechanical, techno techniques aren't quite to par. And uncomplete piece with 50 ideas, is much more "wow" than a complete, perfectly produced piece with only 2 ideas. (and we all know they DO exist) Sure, the incomplete piece might not sell, but artistically, it's much more important.
Your piece is another word for "what you felt was fun". I think. So if you enjoyed it, cool! If not, whack! I think it pretty much boils down to only so much.
But you feel the urge. You want to do something, to make something happen with your music. Heck, that's the best sign that a whole new composing process has begun! Feel good about it, friend, and please do post anything that you come up with!
Oh yeah, and to add something.. I look back to my old material, like stuff I wrote 2 years ago.. and say.. "sheesh, that's rubbish, I gotta show myself I'm much better now".. The answer, "why continue" does NOT exist man!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-08-29 12:49 ]</font>
.Funny that you said:
I agree with you about discipline too ? that is a problem with so much to go at and so much technology overload. I think the best thing will be to get the notation in place and then think about the production. It?fs too easy to get sidetracked. My only wish is that I could visualise the finished product as I write (thinking about EQ, reverb etc). But this is the learning curve, so discipline is the way to go. Perhaps I?fll split my time into composing days and studying days etc.
"easy to get sidetracked"..? I'd supposed most of what I do is a product of being sidetracked from life itself! hehe. Don't be so tough on yourself. Sidetrack all you want. Especially during your writer's block. Side track so much that you forget where you started, and become immersed, even obsessed with what you're doing at the moment. Isn't that what composing's supposed to be like anyway? hehe.
I dunno.. It seems like taking anything to the extreme is good for an extreme situation like this. Eat awesome food. Drink awesome wine. Find awesome chicks? (if that's a choice) Let's go get some chaos!
But, of course, that's the inspirational/mental side of composing, and like you said, there might be some academic stuff that you might want to persue. It's really up to you man. The thing is, you shouldn't feel like there's pressure to do anything, or to be anything. Who cares if the academics and mechanical, techno techniques aren't quite to par. And uncomplete piece with 50 ideas, is much more "wow" than a complete, perfectly produced piece with only 2 ideas. (and we all know they DO exist) Sure, the incomplete piece might not sell, but artistically, it's much more important.
Your piece is another word for "what you felt was fun". I think. So if you enjoyed it, cool! If not, whack! I think it pretty much boils down to only so much.
But you feel the urge. You want to do something, to make something happen with your music. Heck, that's the best sign that a whole new composing process has begun! Feel good about it, friend, and please do post anything that you come up with!
Oh yeah, and to add something.. I look back to my old material, like stuff I wrote 2 years ago.. and say.. "sheesh, that's rubbish, I gotta show myself I'm much better now".. The answer, "why continue" does NOT exist man!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-08-29 12:49 ]</font>
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
-
lifechanger
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Here's my bio-feedback.
I'll be 68 in February, so by that date I'll be looking back (most likely) at 20 Albums and thirty thousand "plays" on Mp3.com.
This is the result of puttering, using Sonar and SoundForge principally for mixing and mastering...with help from a Luna II and my Pulsar I....all completed in ONE year. Guess it helps me stay young and ornery, along with my three schnauzer pups. Never a bad choice to listen to music continually...this morning, my CD of choice was Don Sebesky's tribute to Bill Evans tucked in my I-River Multi-Code Player, as the "three musketeers" (ma dogs), and I, wended along the river trails with the cool breeze on our collective backs. Great Album to keep the ol' guy inspired..even has a track of Evans explaining why his music was so well received by other young keyboardists. But Don's arranging is akin to Gil Evans......Inspiring!
1. Have at least one Martini/Manhattan etc.
prior to wading into your equipment in the late afternoon, early evening. We're having a stupendous summer here in Chicago, with the annual jazz concert goin' on right now on our beautiful lakefront...so this'll take up the next four nights...fortunately!!
2. Buy yourself a new piece of equipment to bring a bit of Sun-Ra into that same-o studio...big sales this weekend at all the music dealers in the US, celebrating Labor Day.
3. Break out of the dooldrums...try some different genres...even if you're a jazz-o-phile like me, stretch out to the other musical idioms.
4. Getting on a spot like MP3.com (I pay so I gets almost instant approval), to me, is a major step in putting on display your talents, whatever they may be, and getting the feedback you need to stay motivated. And, of course, it's fun to let others "splash" in your creativity.
I currently have a MaxiMini-Moog track on my latest Album, "Don't Be Afraid"...I look forward to using it to a greater degree and and more expressive approach on my next.
Mike
http://yuppiemusic.biz
http://mp3.com/cosmicimpressions
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-08-29 13:16 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-08-29 13:20 ]</font>
I'll be 68 in February, so by that date I'll be looking back (most likely) at 20 Albums and thirty thousand "plays" on Mp3.com.
This is the result of puttering, using Sonar and SoundForge principally for mixing and mastering...with help from a Luna II and my Pulsar I....all completed in ONE year. Guess it helps me stay young and ornery, along with my three schnauzer pups. Never a bad choice to listen to music continually...this morning, my CD of choice was Don Sebesky's tribute to Bill Evans tucked in my I-River Multi-Code Player, as the "three musketeers" (ma dogs), and I, wended along the river trails with the cool breeze on our collective backs. Great Album to keep the ol' guy inspired..even has a track of Evans explaining why his music was so well received by other young keyboardists. But Don's arranging is akin to Gil Evans......Inspiring!
1. Have at least one Martini/Manhattan etc.
prior to wading into your equipment in the late afternoon, early evening. We're having a stupendous summer here in Chicago, with the annual jazz concert goin' on right now on our beautiful lakefront...so this'll take up the next four nights...fortunately!!
2. Buy yourself a new piece of equipment to bring a bit of Sun-Ra into that same-o studio...big sales this weekend at all the music dealers in the US, celebrating Labor Day.
3. Break out of the dooldrums...try some different genres...even if you're a jazz-o-phile like me, stretch out to the other musical idioms.
4. Getting on a spot like MP3.com (I pay so I gets almost instant approval), to me, is a major step in putting on display your talents, whatever they may be, and getting the feedback you need to stay motivated. And, of course, it's fun to let others "splash" in your creativity.
I currently have a MaxiMini-Moog track on my latest Album, "Don't Be Afraid"...I look forward to using it to a greater degree and and more expressive approach on my next.
Mike
http://yuppiemusic.biz
http://mp3.com/cosmicimpressions
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-08-29 13:16 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-08-29 13:20 ]</font>
I know what yer talking about, Paul. yesterday a friend came by, he's a real good keyboard player -I can't play one note, I write midi. It was a revellation to us what came out of the DSP's. One time on the Pro One we almost got tears in our eyes, laughing and thinking "this can't be real!" Also other synths passed the revue, we're gonna play a lot more together soon. And probably do a live in october, he's planned some gigs and invited me to join. I'm very much looking forward again to what the future's gonna bring.
Other people playing with you can reveal other ways of work, new visions. Cos when I'm playing too much alone, I tend too much to stick to routines.
Gonna do some more controller presets for synths I think
He'll be back tomorrow, I'll get his synths ready for super tweaks. It's gonna be fun. Without trying hard.
Other people playing with you can reveal other ways of work, new visions. Cos when I'm playing too much alone, I tend too much to stick to routines.
Gonna do some more controller presets for synths I think
He'll be back tomorrow, I'll get his synths ready for super tweaks. It's gonna be fun. Without trying hard.more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
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Nestor
- Posts: 6684
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Hello Nail!
Yes, I certainly did!
I have had periods when my creativity was at crisis... I realised that if my creativity was crossing a dark period, I was too, crossing a dark period with it. In my own world, I can go out of this quickly by getting in touch with people, life, hard situations that make me reflex, new aspects of life, the universe, nature, etc., and then I use a whole lot of IMAGINATION. Imagination it’s not fantasy, I want to separate them completely. Imagination it’s a conscious act, while fantasy it’s an unconscious one. Imagining with as much reality as you can, going in depth into – for instance – a tree, it’s a great incredible reach way of looking new and positive vibrations and feelings, which will take you OUT of where you are in, and will get you INTO a completely unknown space. To open my mind it’s always my first step, but not only to composing, by whenever I look for something new and positive.
Listening to other people’s music it’s a great point to star too. For instance, the music of some people here en the Z, has opened my mind complete, cos I do not have these feelings and atmospheres within myself, I cannot “create” it from scratch, but paying respectful attention to their work, I realise I can emulate, or lets say better… understand them. If I understand them, then I can “create” from within myself, or if you like, I can have a “musical opinion” about this feelings and topics.
I have heard your music and think you are a potential composer, I think you are real good at doing music and have an innate sense of balance in the conception of what you do. I whish for you to believe me, when I say that! I’m being honest, I do not see the point to encourage somebody with not possibilities. You can read on, in the music forum, if I do not like something, I say, “I don’t like it”. As a potential, persevering listener, I have my own concepts about the aesthetics of music and others aspects of composition, mixing, timbers combinations, etc., so my points of view are of course, subjective and taste-depending.
I have too, been overwhelmed by technology, and think I still am! There are so many things to learn to get yourself some freedom into the digital that sometimes… I feel frustrated to death. Fortunately, this feelings have a double way, and it’s logical, cos what we can do with our systems is sooooooo much, that it’s difficult to learn, but the fact of being able of doing so much, it’s fantastic, even if it is difficult!
I don’t think that 48 years old it is an “old” age. Perhaps your attitude is… so just update your attitude as you did when getting Cubase, and believe in what you do. I’m telling you this fondly, cos I do understand your words and what to answer you as a friend, and not just as a cold, detached poster.
Have you really heard every track in the forum? Wow! Yes, you deserve a medal to streaming patience! He he …I have heard a lot of them but not them all… yet.
I had a composition teacher called Daniel Shapiro, who is a director. He himself, does not compose anything, but is eager to teach people how to compose and I can tell he’s method is uncommon but effective. The first think he recommended us – the students – was to oblige yourself to compose 30 minutes everyday, systematically. It doesn’t matter if you do rubbish or fantastic things, you have to completely forget the sense of beauty or anything trying to like others, etc. All you have to do is to EXPRESS YOURSELF. He would explain you first need to be able to speak a language called “MUSIC”, if you learn well by practising it everyday, then you can say anything you want to say. In most cases, when somebody is desperately wanting to compose, it’s because the person has many ideas or feelings to express but he doesn’t know how to. He needs to learn the appropriate langue to be able to. The language for painters is learning the painting techniques, whatever they may be. The language for musicians is music, so we need to learn all about it. So we had to give him a written piece of music everyday, and he would play in a piano, then we would speak about the “reality” of this expression, never about “yes, it’s nice”, “no, it’s not nice”; we would rather concentrate on saying, “yes, I reached the accurate expression of my feelings”, “no, it’s not yet quite what I felt”. So even frustration can be expressed musically. I mean: you could even express in a composition that you are frustrated cos you cannot compose!
Of course, doing it, we all improved very much and very quickly. Before that, we all were trying to do something “nice”, but we were not ready for that, we didn’t know the language or were not supple enough to move with the needed freedom. Anybody doing this training, would by all means improve and develop an strong compositional potential. It’s most of all, a matter of experiencing.
That is way I can’t agree enough with Remixme when he says:
“The point is to compose/write what you feel and not put constraints on yourself that hamper creativity such as....
"not catchy enough"
"heard it somewhere before"
"others won't like it"
"I haven't written anything decent in ages"
In the same line of ideas, Ken said: “The thing is, you shouldn't feel like there's pressure to do anything, or to be anything”. Absolutely agree with it too!
And then… is there crap music, if you do what you have to do? Of course, not! The matter is to express what you need to express, to tell the truth about the need to have to express yourself.
I’ve done it, and it has worked for me very… very well. After the advice of Daniel Shapiro, I started composing every day for 30 minutes and got to write more and more and more… then I had the change to be off work for a whole year and so dedicated between 8 to 14 hours a day, from Monday to Monday, composing for a whole year with a Fender Rhodes. The compositions where all for piano, I was not looking fore beauty, as my teacher explained, I was rather looking expressing myself, as I am, as I feel, independently of whatever else in the world. Result: very realistic music, music I could say it has a heavy load of feelings and expressions and objectiveness in regard to who I am. Nice? Was my music beautiful, attractive, good sounding? I don’t know, this is something else… and to what I’m saying, it does not matter at all. This is NOT a problem to be considered by the composer; it’s a problem to be taken care of by the listener instead.
I agree with the fact that enjoying music it’s important, yes, but I don’t think of music exclusively as a way of enjoying. Music it’s a language, so you express what you want to say. You can enjoy or you can suffer too. This is a bit out of the scope of your question, but it has some points to be considered too: Music is not only for being happy, but for being sad, angry, crazy, depressed, in love, in hope, or whatever else… described or not by modern psychology. We need to EXPRESS ourselves, and this is perhaps the very fist step. If somebody likes it, fine, but this is not the point.
I had a friend, a guitarist; he’s a great composer and an incredible player. Well, he would always diminish a piece of music if it was not complicated… He would analyse the song and then would say: “Oh, I know, it’s the same structure as always… I do not like it it’s old, it worth not the effort”. Well, love it’s old, anger it’s old, frustration is old, feelings as a whole are old… and we all feel them and can’t deny them. When the time passed by, he realised music is not the “inside or structure”, music is not “a group of chords”, music is not “a gathering of information”, and it’s much much more than that. It’s a language through which people can say what they feel and that there is no limits or considerations of any kind if you can go where you need to go. If you can be genuine enough to say what you have to say, this is the point.
Hope this helps in some way. Anyway, I did like your music very much. And here all I said becomes an actuality: the little I’ve heard from you is simple, direct, and there is SOMETHING MORE, hidden somewhere I can’t see, can’t touch, can’t but enjoying and feeling… I would call it, YOUR VERY BEING!!!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-08-29 14:36 ]</font>
Yes, I certainly did!
I have had periods when my creativity was at crisis... I realised that if my creativity was crossing a dark period, I was too, crossing a dark period with it. In my own world, I can go out of this quickly by getting in touch with people, life, hard situations that make me reflex, new aspects of life, the universe, nature, etc., and then I use a whole lot of IMAGINATION. Imagination it’s not fantasy, I want to separate them completely. Imagination it’s a conscious act, while fantasy it’s an unconscious one. Imagining with as much reality as you can, going in depth into – for instance – a tree, it’s a great incredible reach way of looking new and positive vibrations and feelings, which will take you OUT of where you are in, and will get you INTO a completely unknown space. To open my mind it’s always my first step, but not only to composing, by whenever I look for something new and positive.
Listening to other people’s music it’s a great point to star too. For instance, the music of some people here en the Z, has opened my mind complete, cos I do not have these feelings and atmospheres within myself, I cannot “create” it from scratch, but paying respectful attention to their work, I realise I can emulate, or lets say better… understand them. If I understand them, then I can “create” from within myself, or if you like, I can have a “musical opinion” about this feelings and topics.
I have heard your music and think you are a potential composer, I think you are real good at doing music and have an innate sense of balance in the conception of what you do. I whish for you to believe me, when I say that! I’m being honest, I do not see the point to encourage somebody with not possibilities. You can read on, in the music forum, if I do not like something, I say, “I don’t like it”. As a potential, persevering listener, I have my own concepts about the aesthetics of music and others aspects of composition, mixing, timbers combinations, etc., so my points of view are of course, subjective and taste-depending.
I have too, been overwhelmed by technology, and think I still am! There are so many things to learn to get yourself some freedom into the digital that sometimes… I feel frustrated to death. Fortunately, this feelings have a double way, and it’s logical, cos what we can do with our systems is sooooooo much, that it’s difficult to learn, but the fact of being able of doing so much, it’s fantastic, even if it is difficult!
I don’t think that 48 years old it is an “old” age. Perhaps your attitude is… so just update your attitude as you did when getting Cubase, and believe in what you do. I’m telling you this fondly, cos I do understand your words and what to answer you as a friend, and not just as a cold, detached poster.
Have you really heard every track in the forum? Wow! Yes, you deserve a medal to streaming patience! He he …I have heard a lot of them but not them all… yet.
I had a composition teacher called Daniel Shapiro, who is a director. He himself, does not compose anything, but is eager to teach people how to compose and I can tell he’s method is uncommon but effective. The first think he recommended us – the students – was to oblige yourself to compose 30 minutes everyday, systematically. It doesn’t matter if you do rubbish or fantastic things, you have to completely forget the sense of beauty or anything trying to like others, etc. All you have to do is to EXPRESS YOURSELF. He would explain you first need to be able to speak a language called “MUSIC”, if you learn well by practising it everyday, then you can say anything you want to say. In most cases, when somebody is desperately wanting to compose, it’s because the person has many ideas or feelings to express but he doesn’t know how to. He needs to learn the appropriate langue to be able to. The language for painters is learning the painting techniques, whatever they may be. The language for musicians is music, so we need to learn all about it. So we had to give him a written piece of music everyday, and he would play in a piano, then we would speak about the “reality” of this expression, never about “yes, it’s nice”, “no, it’s not nice”; we would rather concentrate on saying, “yes, I reached the accurate expression of my feelings”, “no, it’s not yet quite what I felt”. So even frustration can be expressed musically. I mean: you could even express in a composition that you are frustrated cos you cannot compose!
Of course, doing it, we all improved very much and very quickly. Before that, we all were trying to do something “nice”, but we were not ready for that, we didn’t know the language or were not supple enough to move with the needed freedom. Anybody doing this training, would by all means improve and develop an strong compositional potential. It’s most of all, a matter of experiencing.
That is way I can’t agree enough with Remixme when he says:
“The point is to compose/write what you feel and not put constraints on yourself that hamper creativity such as....
"not catchy enough"
"heard it somewhere before"
"others won't like it"
"I haven't written anything decent in ages"
In the same line of ideas, Ken said: “The thing is, you shouldn't feel like there's pressure to do anything, or to be anything”. Absolutely agree with it too!
And then… is there crap music, if you do what you have to do? Of course, not! The matter is to express what you need to express, to tell the truth about the need to have to express yourself.
I’ve done it, and it has worked for me very… very well. After the advice of Daniel Shapiro, I started composing every day for 30 minutes and got to write more and more and more… then I had the change to be off work for a whole year and so dedicated between 8 to 14 hours a day, from Monday to Monday, composing for a whole year with a Fender Rhodes. The compositions where all for piano, I was not looking fore beauty, as my teacher explained, I was rather looking expressing myself, as I am, as I feel, independently of whatever else in the world. Result: very realistic music, music I could say it has a heavy load of feelings and expressions and objectiveness in regard to who I am. Nice? Was my music beautiful, attractive, good sounding? I don’t know, this is something else… and to what I’m saying, it does not matter at all. This is NOT a problem to be considered by the composer; it’s a problem to be taken care of by the listener instead.
I agree with the fact that enjoying music it’s important, yes, but I don’t think of music exclusively as a way of enjoying. Music it’s a language, so you express what you want to say. You can enjoy or you can suffer too. This is a bit out of the scope of your question, but it has some points to be considered too: Music is not only for being happy, but for being sad, angry, crazy, depressed, in love, in hope, or whatever else… described or not by modern psychology. We need to EXPRESS ourselves, and this is perhaps the very fist step. If somebody likes it, fine, but this is not the point.
I had a friend, a guitarist; he’s a great composer and an incredible player. Well, he would always diminish a piece of music if it was not complicated… He would analyse the song and then would say: “Oh, I know, it’s the same structure as always… I do not like it it’s old, it worth not the effort”. Well, love it’s old, anger it’s old, frustration is old, feelings as a whole are old… and we all feel them and can’t deny them. When the time passed by, he realised music is not the “inside or structure”, music is not “a group of chords”, music is not “a gathering of information”, and it’s much much more than that. It’s a language through which people can say what they feel and that there is no limits or considerations of any kind if you can go where you need to go. If you can be genuine enough to say what you have to say, this is the point.
Hope this helps in some way. Anyway, I did like your music very much. And here all I said becomes an actuality: the little I’ve heard from you is simple, direct, and there is SOMETHING MORE, hidden somewhere I can’t see, can’t touch, can’t but enjoying and feeling… I would call it, YOUR VERY BEING!!!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-08-29 14:36 ]</font>
-
Neil B
I’m even more overwhelmed by the responses to this thread. The fact that so many have taken so much time to reply, with feelings from the past, from personal experience and from the heart. I’m encouraged!
Nestor, thanks a million. I will have to disagree on one point though – I don’t feel that 48 is old and my attitude isn’t old. I don’t even feel 28! For instance, I’m into extreme skiing and mountain biking, techno and trance (although I suppose I do feel a bit old there because I can’t seem to write it with a “young” feel to it – but I’m really going to get my head around it soon!) so no way am I “normal” for my age!!!!
And to give you a laugh (and anyone else that reads this response) – I was out mountain biking with a friend last night. On a really fast downhill section we came around a bend to find – a horse! I missed the horse but found a nice hill to roll down without the bike! I’m still laughing now – shaken but not really hurt.
But it doesn’t end there – the horse rider helped me to my feet – she used to be a he before he/she had the operations (don’t even ask me how I know that) and she/he said “I bet that’s the first time you’ve been picked up by someone who’s had a sex change”!
My friend Tom is still laughing and threatening to tell all our friends, but I don’t want to hear another word about it from anyone in this forum!!!
Thanks again everyone and have a good musical weekend – I’m straightening my wheel rims and ribcage!
I’m also going to follow a couple of recommendations – send my wife out to buy me a new piece of kit (Lifechanger) whilst I go out to find some “awesome chicks” (Kensuguro) – should have someone close to “play with” then (Paul R Martin).
Nestor, thanks a million. I will have to disagree on one point though – I don’t feel that 48 is old and my attitude isn’t old. I don’t even feel 28! For instance, I’m into extreme skiing and mountain biking, techno and trance (although I suppose I do feel a bit old there because I can’t seem to write it with a “young” feel to it – but I’m really going to get my head around it soon!) so no way am I “normal” for my age!!!!
And to give you a laugh (and anyone else that reads this response) – I was out mountain biking with a friend last night. On a really fast downhill section we came around a bend to find – a horse! I missed the horse but found a nice hill to roll down without the bike! I’m still laughing now – shaken but not really hurt.
But it doesn’t end there – the horse rider helped me to my feet – she used to be a he before he/she had the operations (don’t even ask me how I know that) and she/he said “I bet that’s the first time you’ve been picked up by someone who’s had a sex change”!
My friend Tom is still laughing and threatening to tell all our friends, but I don’t want to hear another word about it from anyone in this forum!!!
Thanks again everyone and have a good musical weekend – I’m straightening my wheel rims and ribcage!
I’m also going to follow a couple of recommendations – send my wife out to buy me a new piece of kit (Lifechanger) whilst I go out to find some “awesome chicks” (Kensuguro) – should have someone close to “play with” then (Paul R Martin).
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6684
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Wowww!!! it’s seems LIFE itself is answering you better than us all… Wheren't you seeking for new experiences? You've got it!
It’s amazing the experience you just told us. And… sorry, but can’t resist to say something about it: "If you can’t compose something after that, then you really need a psychologist my friend"
Man, you made me laugh a real lot!
it’s seems LIFE itself is answering you better than us all… Wheren't you seeking for new experiences? You've got it! It’s amazing the experience you just told us. And… sorry, but can’t resist to say something about it: "If you can’t compose something after that, then you really need a psychologist my friend"
Man, you made me laugh a real lot!
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6684
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Wowww!!! it’s seems LIFE itself is answering you better than us all… Wheren't you seeking for new experiences? You've got it!
It’s amazing the experience you just told us. And… sorry, but can’t resist to say something about it: "If you can’t compose something after that, then you really need a psychologist my friend"
Man, you made me laugh a real lot!
it’s seems LIFE itself is answering you better than us all… Wheren't you seeking for new experiences? You've got it! It’s amazing the experience you just told us. And… sorry, but can’t resist to say something about it: "If you can’t compose something after that, then you really need a psychologist my friend"
Man, you made me laugh a real lot!
tnx a lot Neil adressing this - and of course for that great storyOn 2002-08-30 04:11, Neil B wrote:
I will have to disagree on one point though – I don’t feel that 48 is old and my attitude isn’t old. I don’t even feel 28! For instance, I’m into extreme skiing and mountain biking, techno and trance (although I suppose I do feel a bit old there because I can’t seem to write it with a “young” feel to it – but I’m really going to get my head around it soon!) so no way am I “normal” for my age!!!!
I try to fight unavoidable traces of time in a similiar way, though I climb the mountains and race the bike on the street.
Gives me the feeling I'm not alone and not completely crazy.
cheers, Tom