VDAT and Alesis BRC - Success

[astroman]

My project with the longest runtime ever and the most stupid errors...
Though it‘s not perfect in relation to today‘s DAW standards, I really like the features and haptic of the BRC.

First and most important: you need a proper Adat Sync cable (and of course a Sync Plate)
Unfortunately some original Alesis cables are not compliant (I had one of those) as are 9pin PC cables, which is documented.
The cable itself is way more simple than expected: 4 twisted pairs, 1 ground line and shield, connection 1:1 on both sides.
A CAT5e ethernet cable (with cut off plugs) served well with shield as ground (pin 6).
The 4 pairs then were soldered to top pins 5 to 2 (solid color) with the respective „stripe“ color right below them.

Second: Scope must be set to slave in the Samplerate control panel, sync source External Adat (the bottom most item).
If Scope isn‘t slave, transport and location will not work, though communication seems established.

With that setting the former occasional on-off record enable flickers on the BRC track indicators vanished completely.
Then load a „tape“ and the unit is ready for action.
Yesterday all locator tests passed, including loops, punch in/out with pre/postroll and grouped loop recording.
Eventually the proof was done... just because it can be done ... LoL

cheers, Tom

[Bud Weiser]

Excellent !

I´m not familiar w/ the BRC but now downloaded the reference and service manual.
I recognize it supports 3 real ADAT recorders.
How many VDAT does it support,- also 3 (or more) ?

I like such nostalgic projects !



Bud

[astroman]

The physical BRC can control up to 16 Adats for 128 tracks, but I can‘t imagine such a setup as a practical solution.
(these units take serious time to sample-align by mechanics)
In VDAT it‘s conceptually the same, but iirc from a certain point on it doesn’t create any more virtual tapes.

I‘ve tested mostly with a single virtual Adat, and a few with two.
(some years ago I did a recording test with 32 tracks on VDAT alone which was a big surprise... it recorded all 32 without a glitch to a 5200rpm notebook drive. The noise wasn‘t loud, but it DID sound insane

I recently aquired an MPC Studio controller, but midi recording within the tight bar scheme is not so cool (for my humble chops)
VDAT allows to capture all jamming live to 16 (mono) or 32 (stereo) tracks.
The BRC makes track selection/arming a breeze and 20 locators per group of 8 tracks seems sufficient.

[Bud Weiser]

VDAT allows to capture all jamming live to 16 (mono) or 32 (stereo) tracks.

32 mono, 16 stereo ?

The BRC makes track selection/arming a breeze and 20 locators per group of 8 tracks seems sufficient.

cool !



Bud

[astroman]

Yeah, those figures read a bit strange...
I‘m undecided yet to capture each of the 16 MPC pads as (original) stereo samples, resulting in 32 Adat tracks - or mix them to mono to get along with 16 Adat tracks.
Some of the samples from the „factory content“ on the DVD that came with the unit are quite cool.
But I‘ve also used it to trigger my Kawai XD-5 and of course all kinds of midi synths.
Keyboard is tricky with a couple of crippled tendons on my left hand... too much bouldering years ago

Scope‘s VRC128 is practically the same as the BRC, but the physical unit avoids screen, keyboard and mouse aiming and it can control the recording PC from a distance (just 1 cable needed).
Not bad for an item that‘s frequently sold for 100 bucks or less.

[dawman]

Love hearing this.
I had a blast using VDAT years ago w/ Alfonso’s Click, then just playing back live with it as background vocals, etc.
Sounded noticeably better than Reaper/ Cubase SX at the time.

Having fun w/ great old gear must be a blast.

[astroman]

Indeed it was a good feeling to have the BRC running after so many failed attempts - but also embarassing for not getting the cable right from start, a matter of proper reading...

More results from the lab
the bad news: it only works on 16bit tapes, 24 and 32bit will confuse the BRC immediately.
I haven‘t looked at file content yet, but the controller seems to read/write (locators etc) to the virtual tape.
(must check the service manual)

Don‘t create tapes with the BRC connected, it seems to access files in regular intervals and gets confused by ongoing state changes.
Setting Scope to master and have the BRC powered down solves this.
When the tapes are ready setting Scope to slave to External Adat and powering on the BRC will make it find all virtual Adats.
The check takes a few seconds and a Stop hit plus Locate0 may be necessary to activate the system.

I‘ve created 8 virtual Adats and could BRC-control them, but I went back to 4 (1 full layer of record enable/disable buttons on the surface). The 2nd (hidden) layer‘s selection button is flashing constantly, which I found annoying.
Adding virtual tapes significantly increases DSP load.
More results later...

[Peter Drake]

I once ran a session with 8 physical adats synced with a BRC, quite a mechanical commotion and a bit of a wait as they all synced up. Wish I had recorded the mechanical noises, it sounded cool.
Bookmarking this topic, I've got a sync card and a line on a good condition BRC with original sync cables, thank you.

[Bud Weiser]

How many VDATs run on a Creamware Pulsar II 6DSP PCI card ?
I have one w/ a Cutmaster Pro key in addition and a "PLUS" plate as well.
Sync plate too ...



Bud

[astroman]

On 7 DSPs (Pulsar One + Luna) 8 VDATs used about 60-70% of the DSP meter.
Not much else in the project, 8 Asio channels and one if the simple Mixers (forgot it‘s name...)

[Bud Weiser]

thank you astroman !




Bud

[astroman]

you‘re welcome ...
I‘ve tested with Scope 3.1c and WinXP 32bit version, in other words the most vintage setup I could create

Under Win-7 64bit and Scope 5.1 (Pulsar II) it was less successful and due to the mainboard chipset (bad PCI performance) it doesn‘t make sense to dive in further.

The main difference to the XP system was the immediate return of the record/input LED flicker (every 5 to 15 seconds some LEDs turn on and off) - same Sync Cable, same power outlet.
And also the unreliable performance pattern experienced before returned, at some point VDAT looses contact with the BRC.
The BRC the counter runs, it positions and loops, does it‘s punch in/out, etc... but on screen VDAT just stands still.

Btw: most of my blurb is also part of the official VDAT documentation, but easy to overlook as it‘s referred to as VDAT slave mode. VDAT and VRC were quite an achievement in the early days of Scope... respect to the developers.

[astroman]

almost 1 year later...
Collected a lot of experiences with the unit, worth mentioning:

VDAT is extremely sensitive to Windoze libraries.

I killed the functionality once by installing software which required certain .net and runtime libs.
Obviously this action completely confused VDAT.
While all positioning and channel selection pretended to work, once transport was engaged the tape plopped back into the data section.
No recovery possible, removing the „updates“ didn‘t help, re-creating the respective project from scratch failed, too.
I had a copy of the original Win-7 version on another disk, installed Scope 5 and everything was up again.

Conclusion: if you press „Start“ on a VDAT control and the display responds with Data instead of position, VDAT‘s supporting code (Win native) is messed.


With a physical BRC:
A Sync Plate is required and Scope must be slaved to Adat Sync, the last item in the Sync Plate section of Sample Rate dialog.

The most essential part is the BRC „catching“ the VDAT and hook it up as a slave unit.
(VDAT must be slave, otherwise it doesn‘t work at all, even if some parts look as if they are working)
On real world Adats physical switches signal their state to the BRC, but in a software environment that’s less reliable.
Sometimes linking succeeds immediately, sometimes it takes a few attempts.
Connection established is indicated by showing a position or 00.00.00 on the BRC display.

In case of no connection established:
The BRC can be triggered to search for tapes by toggling it’s External Sync Button (right beneath the display).
2 taps within a second, then wait while the Scope cursor is spinning. Repeat until the BRC catches the tape.
(this is easier than reload the project or restart Scope or whatever...)

With tapes loaded and long standby times the connection may become unreliable.
It‘s better to eject tapes in such situation.
If Locate on the BRC fails at 1st press, do a couple of Stops... which usually makes Locate responsive again.
It‘s equivalent to disengage/engage the tape mechanism on the physical machine.

to be continued...

[valis]

If you can collect this all into a single list by the end, I can post it on the frontend of the website to make it easier for SEO and users who don't follow the forums regularly.

[t_tangent]

Nice observations, and thanks for keeping us updated on your findings. Might be cool to try this if I can find a BRC some time.

[astroman]

@Valis yes, there will be a condensed summary of my personal software ironman contest
I‘m quite happy with the results, but some points still need a bit of polish.

example: at some point I recorded to VDAT tapes, created in a folder named ADAT, all running well.
Then I copied the tracks to the DAW folder (intending to reuse tapes for future recordings)
Opened them in DAW and there was ... NOTHING on them but silence.
Switched to VDAT and it played back the recorded stuff... wtf.
It took me a while to discover that VDAT (on it’s own !) had made a copy of the tapes in Scope‘s /bin folder and written to that location, not to the folder where I created the tapes.
I trashed all files and did it again, same result ... so I started to use the /bin directory as my tape location.

I never noticed such behavior with a mouse controlled plain VDAT, so it may be due to the BRC presence, but verification is not that exiciting atm, so it has to wait...

[astroman]

Ps to the above:

BRC backlight replacement (el cheapo diy), clocking details of the thing, Adat Sync (9pin) cable DIY.
and whatever may turn out useful...
Tbh (as mentioned elsewhere) my already deep respect for the developers of VDAT has grown even more during this project.

[pranza]

wow guys, gotta try this!

[astroman]

Best of luck...
the Scope Sync Plate is required and Scope must be slaved to the Adat 9 pin connection.
(otherwise the BRC doesn‘t work properly)
The 9 pin cable is critical and there are 2 versions of the original by Alesis, one of which doesn‘t work properly.
(it‘s mentioned in Alesis‘ tec doc)
The best option is DIY from a CAT6 network cable with individual pairs shielded individually.
(not all „shielded“ cables have this feature)
If all goes well the track/arm indicators of the BRC should only light up with key presses.
(I frequently had some light up and go dim again in almost random pattern)
This may be related to ground and/or a flaw on the BRC itself (it‘s even older than Scope...), dunno yet.

In this scenario the BRC provides the main clock, which I considered not optimal for external converters.
(at least in Scope itself I didn‘t notice a degradation of sound output)
So I provided an external (Mutec) master clock signal and set the BRC to „external clock input“.
(this restricts the system to 48khz, as it‘s the only option on the BRC)