This is a very very fine softwaresynth.They are getting better and better,but I almost don`t dare to say this: to compare it with a
Minimoog is like comparing a bicycle with a kajak .In other words:it has nothing to do with an old analog Minimoog.I think it is
impossible to emulate analog synths but for sure digital synths.
But I´ll stress :Minimax is really serious work.
I´m sorry
Kim
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kiminet on 2002-07-17 18:49 ]</font>
Minimax announce + comments
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Thalamus
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Denmark (yes, we do have nice blondes)
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For one times sake I'll blend in to this discussion. Normally I would not, because I don't consider it to be too low level.
First of all : Creamware is PRO stuff. It has way more "sound" of many native plugins (although Absynth has a certain WOW-factor).
I feel that one big issue is the lack of presice metering. This is deeply integrated in the extreme-nice-looking-32-bit Creamware Interface, so fixing it would mean something beyond my technical skills. But is NOT pro. It's simply too slow (actually the meters in VINCO (not the analog-style) is the best i've seen yet, it's a good sign, but still not there!).
But almost anything else has CLASS... The gui of the synths/fx is normally supernice, and I like that when working. It's inspiring.
Synths like Vectron, Lightwave and now Minimax is both innovative and damn good sounding. Then there's MOD v2... Amazing. Even the stock synths are cool. I feel whenever i take a synth inside scope it has more attitude than it's VST counterpart. Take Fx the VST plugin TAU-PRO. It sounds really nice, and have awfull lot of features. But then I drag in the tree-o-tree device by obsidian, and man does it have balls. Not so many options, but what a sound...
When we speak of effects, yeah, I got all I want, and I can automate them whenever I want. I can assign them to whatever midicontroller I have. Hell, NO other company,except the KYMA system, will give you all these options and flexability, right out of the box.
I quess, a lot of new "creamwares" are coming in by the "LUNA" door. A cheap solution, and a very nice soundcard when you compare it to others in the same pricearea. But these users have this strange "I-want-more, I-want-it-all, and-I-want-it-for-free" decease.
Hey, again this is PRO gear. It's not freaking soundblaster. Compare the prices of creamware to the prices of TDM. WHaou...
Grok wrote : <I>"Creamware's plugins must be free for all Creamware's users, I think the hardwares differences are enough to justify the prices differences."</I>
This is both insane and is never gonna happen.
When you buy a pulsar II card, look at the stuff you're getting. A REALLY nice sounding board with low latency, many driver options AND hell-of-a-lot FX AND synths AND studio gear AND extreme routing possibilities. Well, I think you get alot for your money. And then again, you have nothing to compare prices with, cause noone else is giving you, by far, the same thing.
UAD is certently nice (I have one), but it lacks one of pulsars strong points zero (0) latency. With pulsar it IS actually like having the hardware fx or synths.
If creamware were going to give all their innovations for free, sure they would slowly die... You think, that if you bought Cubase, you should have MODEL-E, THE GRAND, VIRTUAL GUITAR and all their other stuff for FREE. You got to be kidding me. When you bought Cubase or pulsar, you knew what you was paying for, and you bought it... end of story.
What they should give free, is some kind of developement for 3-rd parties. But thats a strange issue, because SCOPE/DP is... well, a whole new approach to sound design. But somehow they should find a solution so everyone interrested could do plugins for the platform. I quess the succes they would have by doing this (like many more peoble buying their cards thus compensate for the developement tools) would really gain the platform.
Creamware actually gives more for free than any other company I know of.
Subhuman : well, like Grok, I disagree with you. When you bought scope/dp you knew what was in there... Sure, maybe you dont use the VDAT, but you knew by forehand, that you were paying for this device. I think by giving us all of the devices we got with the 3.1 update, they have made me happy. And I think it is fair too. If we didn't sure I'ld have been mad.
Your idea about the "device club" is interresting, but I think we have to buy our new devices as anyone else.
I will be sorry if this post is offending anyone, cause thats deffendtly not the purpose.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thalamus on 2002-07-17 19:58 ]</font>
First of all : Creamware is PRO stuff. It has way more "sound" of many native plugins (although Absynth has a certain WOW-factor).
I feel that one big issue is the lack of presice metering. This is deeply integrated in the extreme-nice-looking-32-bit Creamware Interface, so fixing it would mean something beyond my technical skills. But is NOT pro. It's simply too slow (actually the meters in VINCO (not the analog-style) is the best i've seen yet, it's a good sign, but still not there!).
But almost anything else has CLASS... The gui of the synths/fx is normally supernice, and I like that when working. It's inspiring.
Synths like Vectron, Lightwave and now Minimax is both innovative and damn good sounding. Then there's MOD v2... Amazing. Even the stock synths are cool. I feel whenever i take a synth inside scope it has more attitude than it's VST counterpart. Take Fx the VST plugin TAU-PRO. It sounds really nice, and have awfull lot of features. But then I drag in the tree-o-tree device by obsidian, and man does it have balls. Not so many options, but what a sound...
When we speak of effects, yeah, I got all I want, and I can automate them whenever I want. I can assign them to whatever midicontroller I have. Hell, NO other company,except the KYMA system, will give you all these options and flexability, right out of the box.
I quess, a lot of new "creamwares" are coming in by the "LUNA" door. A cheap solution, and a very nice soundcard when you compare it to others in the same pricearea. But these users have this strange "I-want-more, I-want-it-all, and-I-want-it-for-free" decease.
Hey, again this is PRO gear. It's not freaking soundblaster. Compare the prices of creamware to the prices of TDM. WHaou...
Grok wrote : <I>"Creamware's plugins must be free for all Creamware's users, I think the hardwares differences are enough to justify the prices differences."</I>
This is both insane and is never gonna happen.
When you buy a pulsar II card, look at the stuff you're getting. A REALLY nice sounding board with low latency, many driver options AND hell-of-a-lot FX AND synths AND studio gear AND extreme routing possibilities. Well, I think you get alot for your money. And then again, you have nothing to compare prices with, cause noone else is giving you, by far, the same thing.
UAD is certently nice (I have one), but it lacks one of pulsars strong points zero (0) latency. With pulsar it IS actually like having the hardware fx or synths.
If creamware were going to give all their innovations for free, sure they would slowly die... You think, that if you bought Cubase, you should have MODEL-E, THE GRAND, VIRTUAL GUITAR and all their other stuff for FREE. You got to be kidding me. When you bought Cubase or pulsar, you knew what you was paying for, and you bought it... end of story.
What they should give free, is some kind of developement for 3-rd parties. But thats a strange issue, because SCOPE/DP is... well, a whole new approach to sound design. But somehow they should find a solution so everyone interrested could do plugins for the platform. I quess the succes they would have by doing this (like many more peoble buying their cards thus compensate for the developement tools) would really gain the platform.
Creamware actually gives more for free than any other company I know of.
Subhuman : well, like Grok, I disagree with you. When you bought scope/dp you knew what was in there... Sure, maybe you dont use the VDAT, but you knew by forehand, that you were paying for this device. I think by giving us all of the devices we got with the 3.1 update, they have made me happy. And I think it is fair too. If we didn't sure I'ld have been mad.
Your idea about the "device club" is interresting, but I think we have to buy our new devices as anyone else.
I will be sorry if this post is offending anyone, cause thats deffendtly not the purpose.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thalamus on 2002-07-17 19:58 ]</font>
I agree alot with Thalamus, considering I entered in the budget end with pulsar MK1, I sold my Korg 1212 to buy a propack, and even with all the VIA troubles, instability I have had, I still love this platform, and don't think I could go back to a simple in/out soundcard.
And its the fact that I can say to myself that I legally own a load of softsynths, effects and high quality mixing software, provided by pulsar.
Ok now I don't expect everything for free, but I can see the argument that we paid extra for the hardware, its reasonable to expect pricing that reflects this. IE if there was a VST instrument of comparable quality to the minimax, I would expect creamwares pricing policy to be cheaper.
But some of these bundle deals available lately have been really good, as long as they continue, I don't think the majority of creamware users have anything to worry about.
And its the fact that I can say to myself that I legally own a load of softsynths, effects and high quality mixing software, provided by pulsar.
Ok now I don't expect everything for free, but I can see the argument that we paid extra for the hardware, its reasonable to expect pricing that reflects this. IE if there was a VST instrument of comparable quality to the minimax, I would expect creamwares pricing policy to be cheaper.
But some of these bundle deals available lately have been really good, as long as they continue, I don't think the majority of creamware users have anything to worry about.
To Thalamus: Yes, you´ve certainly got a point, but the comparison with Cubase and Scope/SP is a bit unfair, as you´ll have to pay a LOT more for Scope. The difference between Scope and Pulsar is too big, i think sub is right here. Take a look at the secondhand-prices of CW products. It´s VERY hard to sell a Scope System, believe me. I´m trying that for 6 weeks now (althoug i really like the sound of CW, too). The highest offer i got was 10 Dollars. And this in no joke this time.
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King of Snake
- Posts: 1544
- Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
- Contact:
What are you talking about? The minimax is a 1:1 emulation of the old analog minimoog, of course it has something to do with it!On 2002-07-17 18:41, kiminet wrote:
This is a very very fine softwaresynth.They are getting better and better,but I almost don`t dare to say this: to compare it with a
Minimoog is like comparing a bicycle with a kajak .In other words:it has nothing to do with an old analog Minimoog.I think it is
impossible to emulate analog synths but for sure digital synths.
But I´ll stress :Minimax is really serious work.
I´m sorry
Kim
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kiminet on 2002-07-17 18:49 ]</font>
Maintaining that it's impossible to emulate those old analog sounds is just strange to my eyes, because it's happening right now. Just take a look at the comments on the Zarg Pro One, and the Minimax, people who have the real synths and can't tell the difference anymore. Of course there may still be tiny itty bitty small differences but the sounds can defintely be emulated. And it will only get better as processor power and DSP algorythms get more and more refined.
Considering the idea of the Creamware's plugs collection free for all users of the platform, I ask a question: is it economically insane?
I haven't made studies in economy and marketing, but I like to "think"
on this insane hypothesis: if Creamware take the decision to give all the SFP softs and plugins to all the users of the platform without hardwares considerations, wouldn't they be quickly the number one in the musical industry?
Ok, maybe the market is too small, or maybe it's too big and they can't produce enough Creamware cards for all the people in the world.
Creamware can be a revolution for the XXIth century: imagine a Stradivarius for the people. A real musical instrument that can be sold to every school of music, and in every good family in the world, as the real piano is.
Isn't there a possibility for Creamware to make this move and become rich and famous and in history books? Like the Wolkswagen?
I'm asking this insane question, insanity can be innovation.
I haven't made studies in economy and marketing, but I like to "think"
on this insane hypothesis: if Creamware take the decision to give all the SFP softs and plugins to all the users of the platform without hardwares considerations, wouldn't they be quickly the number one in the musical industry?Ok, maybe the market is too small, or maybe it's too big and they can't produce enough Creamware cards for all the people in the world.
Creamware can be a revolution for the XXIth century: imagine a Stradivarius for the people. A real musical instrument that can be sold to every school of music, and in every good family in the world, as the real piano is.
Isn't there a possibility for Creamware to make this move and become rich and famous and in history books? Like the Wolkswagen?
I'm asking this insane question, insanity can be innovation.
Haven't been here for a while and Creamware have released two biggies - the Vinco and the MiniMax. COOL!
I think I'm slowly becoming addicted to Creamware's creations.
The next software upgrade will probably include them as standard. But if they really are monstrously good, they might be worth paying the money for them anyway.
I'm not going to bother comparing the MiniMax to a Moog or whatever coz I wouldn't know how to having never played the damn thing. So I'll just have to toy around and see if the I like it. Wasn't that fond of the MiniScope's so we'll see.
Now hunting for a thread on Vinco - wanna see if this is worth it.
I think I'm slowly becoming addicted to Creamware's creations.
The next software upgrade will probably include them as standard. But if they really are monstrously good, they might be worth paying the money for them anyway.
I'm not going to bother comparing the MiniMax to a Moog or whatever coz I wouldn't know how to having never played the damn thing. So I'll just have to toy around and see if the I like it. Wasn't that fond of the MiniScope's so we'll see.
Now hunting for a thread on Vinco - wanna see if this is worth it.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
What are you talking about? The minimax is a 1:1 emulation of the old analog minimoog, of course it has something to do with it!On 2002-07-18 06:16, King of Snake wrote:
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kiminet on 2002-07-17 18:49 ]</font>
Maintaining that it's impossible to emulate those old analog sounds is just strange to my eyes, because it's happening right now. Just take a look at the comments on the Zarg Pro One, and the Minimax, people who have the real synths and can't tell the difference anymore. Of course there may still be tiny itty bitty small differences but the sounds can defintely be emulated. And it will only get better as processor power and DSP algorythms get more and more refined.
[/quote]
I have some of the old ones among those a Micromoog from 76 with the same occilators and technology as Minimoog but only one occilator and the soundcharacter of this is another than Minimax.The Micromoog is analog sounding and the Minimax is a digital synth
,a good digital synth!The only ones that come close ,that I´ve heard is Novation synths ,probably because they send the signals though analog filters but still not an exact match. 1:1 emulation doesn`t exists,and ofcourse those very gifted engineers of Creamware know that.To
sell Mininax as an analog synth is brings them in conflict with common etic.
By the way Mr. Moog is producing Minimoog again with updated features!But very expensive.
http://www.analogsynths.com/mainpage.html
Kim
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kiminet on 2002-07-18 10:44 ]</font>
Unfortunately a small company like creamware is unlikely to afford to be able to give everything away free. Small companies have to show steady revenue streams and cannot simply give stuff away in the hope it will bring new users. Their business model seems to be based around having several core "good value" products that get you the main system and then optional extras for specific needs like the A16 that provide expansion options. then there are the extra synths + software. This is probably their only real means of making money since it is cheap to distribute these over their website. I imagine the profit margin for their cards is pretty slim so the idea behind the "pro" synths + effects like the vimco and minimax is that you can take ur "good value" cards and take them to a more pro level.
Anyway ..if you look at the pulsar software you get 6 synths + a bunch of effects and mixers. If you wanted hardware versions of all of that you would have to pay in excess of £2000 at least.
I agree with subhuman that the scope pricing is a bit harsh. Admittedly we get some extra pro features like the VDAT but very few people will even use it.
I think they should definately offer scope users discounts on new synths.
I also believe Creamware could do better marketting. When was the last time you saw a creamware product reviewed in a magazine?
SOS review software updates like for the virus and novation astation. They could have done a review for SFP 3.1.
In fact I might email SOS and future music and suggest they do a feature on the whole range.
My only worry would be that they cant get the thing installed properly and give a crap impression of it.
Anyway ..if you look at the pulsar software you get 6 synths + a bunch of effects and mixers. If you wanted hardware versions of all of that you would have to pay in excess of £2000 at least.
I agree with subhuman that the scope pricing is a bit harsh. Admittedly we get some extra pro features like the VDAT but very few people will even use it.
I think they should definately offer scope users discounts on new synths.
I also believe Creamware could do better marketting. When was the last time you saw a creamware product reviewed in a magazine?
SOS review software updates like for the virus and novation astation. They could have done a review for SFP 3.1.
In fact I might email SOS and future music and suggest they do a feature on the whole range.
My only worry would be that they cant get the thing installed properly and give a crap impression of it.
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algorhythm
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Tennessee, USA
- Contact:
Sorry everbody for initiating that ruckus with LATE. I guess my cynical humor was not taken as funny (not the first time this has happened - [ hiya Spirit m8 ]. Sorry again, I'll try and make my futile attempts at humor a bit more obvious in the future.
Actually, I AM a toy sound maker - I have started using Gameboy sounds in my tunes (check my latest for an example of this).
Thank you very much for appreciating this quality of my music. Yes, my stuff is VERY low quality - I believe the Gameboy synths have 8 bit sound @ 22khz - lo-fi indeed, but that is the point, no? Thanks again for your appreciation. [ If you are lurking, please email links to your pro-sound, high-quality chart hits, K? 
]
Regards,
Algorhythm
(BTW - I missed LATE's original rant because I had lost interest in this thread. It must have been real quality, what getting deleted and all. )
_________________
.:algorhythm:. shouldn't you be making music or something?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2002-07-19 09:15 ]</font>
]. Sorry again, I'll try and make my futile attempts at humor a bit more obvious in the future. To the Late Late:Late wrote:
to me you sounds like toy sound maker. UM yes you stuff are low quality works. blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
Actually, I AM a toy sound maker - I have started using Gameboy sounds in my tunes (check my latest for an example of this).
Thank you very much for appreciating this quality of my music. Yes, my stuff is VERY low quality - I believe the Gameboy synths have 8 bit sound @ 22khz - lo-fi indeed, but that is the point, no? Thanks again for your appreciation. [ If you are lurking, please email links to your pro-sound, high-quality chart hits, K? ]Regards,
Algorhythm
(BTW - I missed LATE's original rant because I had lost interest in this thread. It must have been real quality, what getting deleted and all.
)_________________
.:algorhythm:. shouldn't you be making music or something?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2002-07-19 09:15 ]</font>
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King of Snake
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"I have some of the old ones among those a Micromoog from 76 with the same occilators and technology as Minimoog but only one occilator and the soundcharacter of this is another than Minimax.The Micromoog is analog sounding and the Minimax is a digital synth "
Does it matter if the sound is produced digitally or analogue if the sound it makes is essentially the same? I take it CW modelled the Minimax after the original minimoog (dunno which model though) and although a micromoog may have some of the same components of the mini, it's not the same, so it probably will sound different from the minimax.
Does it matter if the sound is produced digitally or analogue if the sound it makes is essentially the same? I take it CW modelled the Minimax after the original minimoog (dunno which model though) and although a micromoog may have some of the same components of the mini, it's not the same, so it probably will sound different from the minimax.
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lifechanger
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- Location: Chicago
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Never bought a plug in....not too much cash flow at 67 with a pittance of Social Security. I have my Harem to take care of...see my two websites....and I've spent beyond the limits for my hardware...
but, being an ol' Pulsar I, Luna II rascal...
it was love at first sound....I even made an icky tune of it on my musicsite, "Mercy, Mercy..Moog!"
I could feel it "flowing" in my home studio...I could feel the muses echoing that theme..."You Had To Go And Lose It At The Astor" (that was a cool song in the 20's)...
Anyway, with my need for a really great lead ax from the past...despite lightwave, Vector, Mod II and the rest....
I capitulated...and now...I know...the shit has hit the pot, cause dismiss the offer...
I just..could...not. (especially with the dollar dropping like a rock against the Euro!
Grandaddy Mike
http://yuppiemusic.biz
http://mp3.com/cosmicimpressions
but, being an ol' Pulsar I, Luna II rascal...
it was love at first sound....I even made an icky tune of it on my musicsite, "Mercy, Mercy..Moog!"
I could feel it "flowing" in my home studio...I could feel the muses echoing that theme..."You Had To Go And Lose It At The Astor" (that was a cool song in the 20's)...
Anyway, with my need for a really great lead ax from the past...despite lightwave, Vector, Mod II and the rest....
I capitulated...and now...I know...the shit has hit the pot, cause dismiss the offer...
I just..could...not. (especially with the dollar dropping like a rock against the Euro!
Grandaddy Mike
http://yuppiemusic.biz
http://mp3.com/cosmicimpressions
hm $200, 200euro huh
I remember when I was at college, my friends and I had hardly any money and one of my best friends who was given something like £30 a week to live on by her mum went and spent £200 on a plasma ball one weekend. We thought she was insane!
That evening 4 of us took mushrooms and had a fun night in (cheaper than going to the pub and much more fun). One of my mates spent about 5 hours staring at the plasma ball with a grin from ear to ear. He had far more than £200 worth of enjoyment from that. After witnessnig that, she never regretted that purchase.
I played with the minimax demo this evening and the sounds are phat! So I bought it and Ive been playing with it all night. It is sooooooo good. I would say I've had close to £100 with of enjoyment from it already!
modulate that filter! omg!
I remember when I was at college, my friends and I had hardly any money and one of my best friends who was given something like £30 a week to live on by her mum went and spent £200 on a plasma ball one weekend. We thought she was insane!
That evening 4 of us took mushrooms and had a fun night in (cheaper than going to the pub and much more fun). One of my mates spent about 5 hours staring at the plasma ball with a grin from ear to ear. He had far more than £200 worth of enjoyment from that. After witnessnig that, she never regretted that purchase.
I played with the minimax demo this evening and the sounds are phat! So I bought it and Ive been playing with it all night. It is sooooooo good. I would say I've had close to £100 with of enjoyment from it already!
modulate that filter! omg!
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King of Snake
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- Location: the Netherlands
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maybe I should have used aOn 2002-07-17 16:57, subhuman wrote:
I'm not whining about the price King of Snake. I think it's reasonable. I guess I'm more concerned about the SCOPE/SP price, which is much, much more than a Pulsar or PowerPulsar. That's all.
, but I thought it was clear I was only kidding around, and in no way trying to take a stab at you. It was more meant as a general commentfor the people that thought Minimax was too expensive.<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2002-07-20 16:55 ]</font>