Scope 7

[krizrox]

As far as XITE/A16 is concerned, BNC word clock works fine with V5.1 Scope. It's broken with Scope 7.

Did you also try w/ a single A16 (Ultra) and XITE-1, using Z-Link and/or ADAT only, no BNC connected at all ?
Does that work at least, SCOPE 7 32Bit and/or 64Bit ?

I understand, when using both,- Z-Link w/ A16 (Ultra) and (an)other ADAT converter(s) in addition, just to make usage of all the available I/O channels,- BNC wordclock and a masterclock unit is essential. Right ?
So, as long as the upcoming SCOPEv7 update isn´t released, it´s impossible creating such setup ?

I´m asking ´cause I´m about buying more gear expanding I/Os for my rig, w/ SCOPE v7 & XITE-1 being the central pieces of the rig making all that front-end analog (line) mixers obsolete,- hopefully.



Bud

No, I have to admit I didn't go beyond the simple testing with the ADAT/BNC clock from the A16 Ultra. I used to run my system with Z-Link only, but the difference in quality from that to ADAT/BNC was noticeable enough to never go back. This is just from a historical perspective: I ran Z-Link only (two Firewire cables from my A16Ultra) as my standard setup literally from day one going all the way back to my original Z-Link configured Pulsar cards. I remember asking about wordclock connectivity when I first got the A16/Scope/Pulsar setup but I didn't have the optional wordclock card so there was no way to test it like that. It seemed like the forum responses that came back at the time were "Z-Link only is fine. No word clock needed" (or even possible since Z-Link provided it's own sync signal). So that's how I ran for many years. I guess my ears just got used to the way it sounded. Never suspected it could ever be better than that. But when XITE arrived, I now had the ability to test the wordclock setup and I noticed a real clear advantage right away. The low end seemed a lot tighter - overall the sound stage seemed, or felt, more 3 dimensional and just tighter overall. The difference, to my ears, was remarkable. At first I couldn't tell what I was hearing. It took a little while for reality to kick in. I wasn't going back lol. My A16 provides the wordclock. It is set to master. I don't use a 3rd-party clock. Although I've considered buying one just to hear the difference.

I mean... I could try a quicky experiment to see if the system works with ADAT/Z-Link and NO wordclock but since I have no intention of ever running it like that again, this would only be to answer you guys' questions. We could also just assume as long as your're not running Scope 7 in slave mode, it probably works fine. I'd have to reinstall Scope 7.

PS - I just remembered something. There was more to this wordclock story than just curiosity. I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE. There was a rather long-winded thread dating back about 3 years ago describing all this. If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication. I tried all sorts of remedies (including reinstalling the OS and programs from scratch). Others were having similar problems. The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested. Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.

[yayajohn]

Well that's an interesting bit of info there krizrox. Not sure if I would even hear the difference with my equipment and the way I use it but it certainly gives me something to consider in the future.
I had always thought if it locked to a source then because it is digital then it was good. clock=clock?
But apparently all clocks are not equal? Time to educate myself a little more on the subject.
Oh well at any rate it will be fun to mess around with the BNC connections.
That's all I need is more wires in my spaghetti mess

[krizrox]

There have been shoot-outs with various master clock products over the years and the results always seemed to indicate the better the clock the better the sound. But I've also seen reviews that conflicted with that viewpoint. The question was whether it was better to clock from an external device vs in internal clocking circuit. I certainly am no expert on clocking but in my case the results were noticeable. The meager cost of a wordclock cable was all it took to convince me. I might be able to wrestle some additional improvements with a better clock but it seems the "clock" market is smaller than before. The Big Ben isn't even a product anymore. Those Orion atomic clocks cost more than my life lol

[valis]

If BNC is broken in 7 but works in 5.1, can we identify the relevant files (like has happened with STS etc) and package them up into a zip for all to use? Gary?

[garyb]

maybe. it's one of the things that i want to test, but haven't gotten to yet.
anyone who has the XITE-1 v5.1 wordclock pep files can certainly try them...

Wordclock-XITE.zip

(146.67 KiB) Downloaded 564 times

[valis]

What about for non-Xite?

[garyb]

works on PCI cards here...

[Bud Weiser]

...
Here is what I have:
Xite-1 - Slave
Presonus Digimax FS - Master (ADAT to Xite-1 ADAT A)
A16U - Master (Z-Link to to Xite-1)
Scope PCI in separate computer - Slave (ADAT B to/from Xite-1)
TC Fireworx - Slave (AES to Xite-1)

Technically I'm not sure if this config is really supposed to work but, well it does seem to from what I've experienced.
Granted, I haven't run any bench tests and I am only using 44.1 so maybe higher reso will break it, don't know.

Thx for posting ... interesting setup,-
I wonder why you use 2 masters and why you use XITE-1 as slave.
I don´t have an A16U atm, but will have one soon.
It´s a older machine than XITE-1 and from my experience, XITE-1´s clock should be on par if not better than the A16U clock because it´s a younger design.
OTOH, I don´t have much experience clocking 5 or more digital devices in a chain up to now, but I´ll have to in future.

I never used a master clock before, but think it will be the best way.

At any rate, at least you can use the equipment until the fix comes.

For the time being, I´ll be fine w/ XITE-1 as master and A16U as slave, all connected and synced via Z-Link then.
Before I go further,- adding my RME ADI-8 Pro and SCOPE PCI again,- I´ll buy parts and build a new machine ...
When that´s done, I imagine buying a Mutec MC3+,- or maybe the cheapest of all,- the ART SyncGen.
The latter has surprisingly good customer reviews @Thoman and the Mutec is great anyway, but 4x more expensive though.
I don´t believe the highest priced clock generators are the best always.



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

...

PS -
... I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE.
... If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication.
... The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested.
Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.

Hi !

I´ve read it all, thx for reply !

But the above was the most interesting info.
Yep, Gary is the man !

The WC cable ...
Do you mean the quality of the cable,- or was it broken ?
I guess you bought new ones,- which brand ?
I also guess all have 75 Ohms when they are BNC-WC cables.
So what makes different quality ?



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

... I might be able to wrestle some additional improvements with a better clock but it seems the "clock" market is smaller than before. The Big Ben isn't even a product anymore. Those Orion atomic clocks cost more than my life lol

I´d start w/ the cheapest because it will be the easiest to resale and see how it works,- ART SyncGen.
If it´s not soooo satisfying as expected, I´d sell it to an amateur and buy a Mutec MC3+ or a Rosendahl.
I´m pretty sure the Mutec does the job pretty well.
The Mutec is affordable,- most Rosendahls cost more.



Bud

[dawman]

Muted allows serious looping tricks on ADA8200s A16 and TC Fireworx cascaded.

[krizrox]

...

PS -
... I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE.
... If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication.
... The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested.
Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.

Hi !

I´ve read it all, thx for reply !

But the above was the most interesting info.
Yep, Gary is the man !

The WC cable ...
Do you mean the quality of the cable,- or was it broken ?
I guess you bought new ones,- which brand ?
I also guess all have 75 Ohms when they are BNC-WC cables.
So what makes different quality ?



Bud

I meant just using a wordclock cable period. Truth be told I had never used one before. I openly admit ignorance on the subject. I bought a cable from - I don't even remember now. Might have been Musicians Friend or Sweetwater. It wasn't the cheapest but it wasn't the most expensive either. I just figured a good mid-range priced cable should work fine. It was nothing but a last ditch experiment anyway. I had no idea if it was going to fix the original problem. Seemed like a long-shot to me at the time but I figured for the price of a cable it was worth a try.

[dawman]

Is there a list of all the synths, effects and mixers.
Or a list of devices that has been upgraded.

Ankyu

[dante]

Is there a list of all the synths, effects and mixers.
Or a list of devices that has been upgraded.

Ankyu

http://www.scope.zone/index.php?id=2748&lg=en

[dawman]

Thanks Dante, but I was looking for a list of each device actually.
I noticed Minimax got some attention, as mentioned here, but more details on other devices is what I was wondering.

Ankyu

[dawman]

I see said the bllind man...

[decimator]

On a 64bit install what I see are ( not all crash tested ) all files updated november 2017 inside folders below :
Effects
Midi
Mixer
Plug ins
Samplers
Tools

Well, things live VDATx64 doesn't work yet, but will work !

For the synths folder here's the list below ...
MINIMAX.dev
MINIMAX v7.dev
Lightwave v7.dev
SB404 V2.dev
miniscope.dev
miniscope MKII.dev
Vectron.dev
Vectron Player.dev
U KNOW 007.dev
Profit 5.dev
Prisma.dev
Poison.dev
Lightwave.dev
Lightwave v5.dev
Inferno.dev
EZSynth.dev
EDS8i.dev
EDS16i V2.dev
BlueSynth.dev
B-2003.dev
Arpeg02.dev
Arpeg01.dev

[valis]

One thing I noticed by overwriting my 5.x install, I have moved devices around over the years. Some of these moved devices (Psy-Q, Optimaster etc) will crash if I load the old/legacy devices that are in the wrong place and thus not overwritten in the new install. They match the date of the new files installed, oddly enough...

[dante]

Probably they have the same create date ie last time they were compiled

[valis]

Indeed, and yet they crash, while the newly installed ones (back in the proper place) do not. If I delete the old ones, and launch the new ones, they still work! So something has changed, most likely the dsp files they rely on.