free jazz music

Adi Soffer · Post by **Adi Soffer** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 10:51 pm

Is anyone using Pulsar for creating free, more human-playing-feeling kind of jazz pieces? If so, how about sharing your thoghts on the matter? in terms of composing, producing, mixing...

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:17 am

I actually do some Jazz, what kind of stuff do you do yourself?

I love FREE I used to play a lot with some nice instrumentalists, but not everything, free but objective, I don’t know how to say that… hemmmm well… let’s say free, but not completely mad, with deep musicality not just nervousness or frustration.

What would you like to do exactly, tell me please…

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:20 am

BTW, which is your instrument, this is very important. Tell me please.

Mine is guitarbass, eventually I would play guitar too, and some keyboard.

There is a guy, called Bizare here, in the Forum, who is interested too, in Jazz and creative music of the like. We could perhaps do something toguether, but we have to see if we like what we do.

Have you something to post into the music forum, that would be great. Cheers...

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 1:06 pm

Adi, are you talking about Free Jazz in the Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry fashion?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:07 pm

Funny you should mention that, Paul. This morning i woke up, picked up the euphonium and automatically started playing 'Blues Connotation', then Ramblin' on the double bass (Ian Dury acknowledged that Charlie Haden's bass solo is the basis for 'Sex & Drugs & Rock'n'Roll'- but i imagine u know that

). So free jazz has been swirling around the planet of late.

Adi - you mean free as in Ornette 1950's, Sun Ra, or Cecil Taylor? Or just unquantised, let it all flop out impro over changes? Give us some more info, could be a nice thread started here.

Billy Higgins is amazing, but Ed Blackwell's the MAN

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:40 pm

Sun Ra... now that's a freaky dude.. I believe he's from some sort of a planet too. hehe.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:44 pm

I got once in touch with the double bass player of Sunra, I don't remember his name now... It was kind a funny guy! He would split onto the people arround him... That's perhaps why I don't rember his name... cos I don't want to... Dirty boy!

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:05 am

Yeah, he's from Saturn, Earth name Hermann Blount

. I like his early (mid-50's) recordings, b4 he got way bent. They sound like a well-arranged whole-tone big-band.

Hey Nestor - you mean spit?

[ This Message was edited by: wayne on 2002-06-07 03:07 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:05 am

Yeaaaa this is the word, spit, not split. That would cause him becoming extinct…

In fact he would blow his nose with his fingers and then throwing his mucus onto the audience with crazy fury. It was dreadfully disgusting! That happened in France. Then he would wipe his nose on his sleeve… The first tenor sax would go walking through the stalls instead of playing on the stage… It was complete madness…

The funny thing is that I was exited cos I thought I would be playing his double-bass being for me a great honour. Of course after that, instead of being a honour to play it, it changed my mind and became a matter of getting infected…

There’s all sorts in live, really!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:09 am

and judging from their "infected" music, I'd have to say they're just a part of the entire "psychelic" movement.. just like a bunch of other 70's bands that were labeled "innovative" and "spiritual". Sad, but it just seems to be true.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:48 pm

Anyway, I was thinking it would be kind of funny not to play together if we want to do something free, cos the “free” stuff is just communication, and if musicians are not there, it’s difficult to search for a fresh, truly spontaneous performance.

I’m open nevertheless, to experience with this, just to go into a new area and open my understanding of music and technology as well.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:02 pm

I bet you got a filthy sound, tho, Nestor

Still, the album 'Sun Song' is pre-haywire

and IMO a masterpiece, and the only SunRa record i would still listen to. All music to reflect the times.
....straying way OT

Nestor, a thing to do could be to build something from a melody (Ornette style) - chorus-blow-chorus - and pass it round for people to wail over & hand on the best take.
Leaves room for allsorts of things!

[ This Message was edited by: wayne on 2002-06-07 21:08 ]

Adi Soffer · Post by **Adi Soffer** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:24 pm

Whooaa. Haven't been here for a few days and people actually replied. That's great.
Here are some answers...
My instruments are piano and drums, which I try to transltae into STS Prosonus Grand and Battery. By "Free" I do not mean any particular school, but rather the free unquanitised humane feeling impro.
I't sfairly difficult I find' for several reasons.
1. The computer simply takes over. You can find yourself improving on 2 bars and the entire piece is flying out the window.
2. Sound. I lack experience in sampling, mixing, mastering, and find it hard to get the warm soft, studio like sounds I look for.
3. QUANITISING!! My god, it's sometimes so hard to get that tempo feeling. Things that are so simple on the piano or drums are realy hard to define and refine on the computer.

I think all Q were answered. I'd like to here your take on things.

Soffer

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:34 am

"define and refine on the computer" ?? Why not just play it live and record it to wav to keep the feeling? When I want that natural feeling, I never put it through the sequencer. Much quicker that way anyway.

And the sound issue... well, there's much to be discussed over this matter but when you find a good sound, you'll find yourself playing the keys just to hear the sound.. I personally don't have a "favorite" at the moment so I guess I'm sort of with you on this. Personally, I like the kawai grand in my home in Taiwan.. I've got it tuned in werkmeinster.

It's kind of fun just to hear that tuning in action.

About the computer taking over and all. I've seen many of my friends fall into that pit.. They say they've got a new tune, and literally, it's a 2 bar loop. And he spends days and days on that 2 bar loop. Can't say it's such an efficient way of composing really. What I do sometimes, when I KNOW before hand that there are going to be some loops I want to spend time on, is to lay out the entire piece with just piano, or just drums and bass, and then go back and work on the loop. It's much better to work on the details after the big picture is set anyway.

It'll be cool to hear some of your experiments/tunes so we can all understand better your situation.

Oh yeah, completely OT. I once recorded a moog line for a piece completely live and that did wonders for that tune. Sometimes it's cool to live record synth lines too. (I guess that was kind of obvious, hehe)

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-06-08 01:40 ]

Adi Soffer · Post by **Adi Soffer** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 4:30 am

"define and refine on the computer" ?? Why not just play it live and record it to wav to keep the feeling? When I want that natural feeling, I never put it through the sequencer. Much quicker that way anyway.

Well, because I'm still far from being a piano pro, and velocities are quite hard to get even on my StduioLogic hammer weighted keyboard...

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:51 am

you've got a hammer weighted keyboard. That's an awesome head start.

With hammer weighted keys, you'd want to imagine a pendulum hitting the strings, and every time you press a key, it's like adding momentum to this pendulum. Not sure if such a vague tip help but anyway.. hehe.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:15 pm

hello friends,

in terms of "free" jazz but not in the terms of the ornette coleman's double quartet (that i like too), but in the terms of jazz as freedom (most of the jazz has become a "maniera" today) i was very well impressed from one of the masterpieces imho of the end of the century: "fascinoma" by jon hassel.

fantastic music, and recorded live on stereo customized tape machine with mics using the different points of a cathedral to naturally reverberate the different instruments and NOTHING else.

i have the cd, but i must investigate if a full analogic lp does exist.
it's a quiet and incredibly free piece of beauty...

another free jazz album i would suggest is "les stances a sophie" from the art ensemble of chicago, one of the first albums.

ciao.

Adi Soffer · Post by **Adi Soffer** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:41 pm

Hey,
These sound very interesting, I'll try and get'em.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:07 am

sun-ra,
prodigious talent.mean world.expect no respect from a superior being who has to ride the back of the bus and drink from the "colored" fountains.
insanity and musical prowess often go hand in hand.(that guy can really play that pno)

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:52 am

My hat's permanently off to the man