VST System Link

[fraz]

Hi,

Which of you folks use VST system link??? with ADAT etc...... - Is it just a case of connecting SPDIF (digital) from one PC to another both with Cubase on obviously and all audio including ADAT goes along nice-n-smoothly???


I'm thinking about some network of some sort. Options are:

1. Simple MIDI sync with audio cables correctly connected
2. Fx Teleport
3. MIDI over LAN MAYBE using Worm Hole
4 VST system link

Which methods do you folks prefer? - if any? - Maybe good to harness the power of more than 1 PC........

[siriusbliss]

I've tested fx teleport, and found it to have too much latency.
I opted to use separate external drives to house sampler/romplers and go that way.

Direct MIDI is still the best.

Greg

[dawman]

Check out Vienna Symphony's Vienna Pro.
It isn't out yet but it is specifically made for linking several PC's together and when unplugged or re connected, it will not require re starting. This avoids the painful loading process associated with giant composer templates.

[fraz]

This seems to be the same idea as FX Teleport.........

[dawman]

Yes but because of 3rd party hosting this could be a very good option for a DAW that has no soundcard.
I still think MIDI is fine for me and quite simple.
Seems like the more gunk that gets in the pipes, the less the water flows.

[iSiStOy]

I tested System Link and fx teleport with sx a while ago with a 100mb lan and I agree (with that type of lan connections) that latencies were quite bad.
Now with a Gb lan I dunno if something changed with network latencies but would be worth a try...

[fraz]

Well I've been doing battle with the VST System link... .....done quite well with this and have got the VST system link connection which is the basic issue sorted out. There are some MIDI/glitch problems though which really Hisses me off (silent P) as I thought it was sorted.

Imported a MIDI file into slaved Scope Pro/Pulsar 2 PC with Cubase Elements 6 (entry level Cubase) with Cubase 6.5 (best version) and cycled the two bar phrase to just see it whizz round like a cat watches a ball of string..... LOL but after several cycles it glitched with the song position pointer going beyond the L/R locators.......

Earlier on it glitched more badly.....but after one or two Cubase tweaks it improved slightly.

There may be some more changes needed to the Scope Project and Cubase Projects but the basic connection is there so it is progress but not stable yet. Scope was on 7ms 44.1 24 bit - Maybe there are some errors so any useful ideas welcome - thanks..

I emailed marc van on this and he may reply within a day or two - I've followed his tutorial on hitfoundry....

[fraz]

Wow.....

I think I've got the basics sorted for this VST system link VSL - MV who wrote the hit foundry article for Scope Rise? has emailed me with queries etc ..... which has helped lots so a big thanks for this----just need to go over it again a few times but generally its working which I'm very happy about......

[iSiStOy]

Late answer, as the topic itself

Great you have been able to tackle some of your issues. From my experience, which hasn't changed since my previous post in 2009, it was too much of a hassle to get SLink and FXTeleport to work at the same time.

I hope you are really approaching sthg accessible in terms of latencies.

The SLink is active in the basic version of Cubase? Didn't know that...

Anyway, now I am running a Xite and don't have the need to deal with several other PC plaftorms at once.

Denis

[dante]

Good to see someones been able to follow Marc's setup and instruction to a working setup.

If this exercise yielded any new hints not on the page (http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_04/dualmast.htm) let me know I will add them for others to follow.

[fraz]

I've tested fx teleport, and found it to have too much latency.
I opted to use separate external drives to house sampler/romplers and go that way.

Direct MIDI is still the best.

Greg

I've got FX Teleport working with latency of around 14.xx milliseconds - Not sure if this can be lowered? - Is this good enough?

[fraz]

I tested System Link and fx teleport with sx a while ago with a 100mb lan and I agree (with that type of lan connections) that latencies were quite bad.
Now with a Gb lan I dunno if something changed with network latencies but would be worth a try...

I'm no expert on this believe me but I got it to work - 1000 whatever LAN - gigabit lan? - I needed to buy another switch so there are two-and some luckily placed CAT5e points? - 14.xx ms latency with most VST'i working- and its free now for FX Teleport

[fraz]

Good to see someones been able to follow Marc's setup and instruction to a working setup.

If this exercise yielded any new hints not on the page (http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_04/dualmast.htm) let me know I will add them for others to follow.

It drove me crackers because I didn't know what I needed to do. On Marcs Hit-Foundry he had an email address-He was mailing me with what to do when I hit problems- Its now connected with ADAT for sync so I should be able to learn what everything does. ADAT gives the most I/O-

SPDIF/AES/UBU only gives two channels?-?-

Its not perfect but its working after a lot of messing- So that's the Xite-1 PC with the Scope Pro and Pulsar 2-So I struggled with it but its been quite involving and will continue to be ----- -----

[fraz]

Some years ago during a converstation with a Creamware Rep [they had a telephone number to call for technical support] ----I was on quite alot....he explained to me that if I had two ADAT units for I/O I would need a sync card if I planned to record using both at the same time. This was back in the Creamware PCI card days- but also explained that if one track was recorded at a time I would not need the sync card and would get away without having one.

With the two PC's syncronised for Cubase VST system link if I was to record using all 4 ADAT units would I need "word clock" syncronisation bearing in mind there is already "digital sync" with vst system link-and hence therefore some type of clock already present?-btw the vst system link is synced over 1 ADAT on each computer over 1 channel for communication.

In a round about way I'm asking if there would be a need to use word clock as well as VST system link?-or whether as described above there is a chance that the 2 pc's in question already have an adequate sync or not if all the ADATS boxes were used.

[iSiStOy]

Hi fraz,

Your question is: do I need a digital clock reference for all this shit, right?

Your setup includes several ADAT HW connected to seperated computers, right?
Each and every ADAT device "array" is slaved to using its respective Cubase as a Digital Clock reference, correct?
Then, these softwares are "connected" through System Link, in Cubase.

What I could find about System Link, and what it is mentionned to do: a time code option, with complements for VSTs

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun04/a ... enotes.htm

By default, Timecode Source is set to None, meaning that Cubase uses its internal clock as the timecode source. However, you can set Cubase to receive timecode via MIDI, ASIO Positioning Protocol, or VST System Link.

VST System Link is Steinberg's platform-independent technology for using Cubase with other computers via digital audio interface connections running System Link-compatible software, such as Cubase SX/SL, Cubase VST 5.2 (which runs in slave mode only), and Nuendo. If you're using Cubase on a network of computers running VST System Link-compatible software and you want to sync Cubase to the master machine via VST System Link, this is the option to enable.

The interesting thing about VST System Link is that it also includes timing and tempo information, which is important because unlike Cubase VST, SX/L can't be slaved to MIDI Clock, due to the newer timing engine being based around linear time rather than musical time. This means that if you want to set up a Cubase system primarily as a mixer (slaved to another Cubase system, for example) with tempo-dependent effects, VST System Link is your only choice.

Then, your question, really. Hopefully, this might help check if/what/how and most importantly, WHY you might need Word Clock between all this shit (and what shit)

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/a ... clocks.htm

[fraz]

If it was just the two scope computers there is a chance I may not need to use word clock as VST system link may have the base covered-There was a reference to "time stamped samples" using VST system link something that Gary B has mentioned that is utilised when someone uses wordclock.

[but because I'm not experienced enough with this yet and haven't quite crossed that bridge I'm not sure which is why I ask]-If it is needed I have a sync card for the PCI Scope cards-The Xite-1 has wordclock-and all I would need then would be a master word clock and maybe some cables / adapters-

If a 3rd computer was added for audio over LAN with a different audio card then word clock would be needed and some MIDI sync from computer 3 [master or slave] to one of the Scope computers---

Thanks for the links to the SOS articles I'll read them at some point---thanks----

[iSiStOy]

My bet is that you'd have already enough gears and knowledge to make this sync going, particularly between your D/A adapters and ADAT devices.
I doubt you grabbed "Digital Clock Reference" as an important reference here, though... Like stated in the different posts you are part of, asking here and outside of here, I dunno what you exactly expect people to tell you more than this: take a look at your configuration and understand the basics.
You can't get a nice and reliable recording from all these digital devices if they don't calibrate on the same digital clock signal. That doesn't include any digital to analog before the A/D step on computers (like with the A16).
For these machines and your soundboards, all should be operating with the same timestamping reference for signals to be matched with others... That's it!
I can't honestly say that VSTSL is reliable enough when talking about syncing external devices with a Cubase software "array"...

You'd be smart to, at least, try the T path, or Gary's solution, which seems to be the most relevant one: buy yourself a small 1-many digital clock and command all other important devices with it (2-3 soundboards + any ADAT).


EDIT: Consider the need for it when talking about digital to digital communication paths. SoundCards, Samplers, Recorders, Converters, possibly Effects as welll--

Give it a try m8!

[fraz]

You can't get a nice and reliable recording from all these digital devices if they don't calibrate on the same digital clock signal

Thanks for your comments on this - You summed this up quite nicely with the above sentence.

[hubird]

There are only wrong answers...

Yet, if you force yourself to sum all mentioned details into one hard single question, the solution probably is close already