Is XITE applicable for me ?

[garyb]

there are 18 year old PCI cards that are still used. the XITE is better than 18 year old PCI cards, there's no reason it would not be useful for longer, even without another update. there are other sequencer modules. the sequencer does not need to be Scope based either, since Scope allows any imaginable routing. whatever may be missing is minor, and is not an obstacle in the production of great music. can you actually make great music? if you can, then Scope will be more than a little helpful.

real gear has more limitations than this stuff does.

if you really want THE BEST, you get hardware, PERIOD. if you can't afford real hardware, then computers are the next step. Scope systems are as close to hardware as possible, since the devices ARE external hardware, only controlled via the computer. Scope is the next best thing to MILLIONS of dollars of hardware, over anything native that isn't so processor heavy that it doesn't allow a full production.

there is not a better value in high-end sound. the cost of an XITE is a fraction of hardware, while two or three thousand euro is not a small amount of money, for real audio hardware it's nothing. people fart away more money than that on audio. if they don't spend that much money, they're just goofing off(which is fine too!). for anyone serious about audio or synthesis, the XITE is a no-brainer.

[dante]

Its webpage for very many time it has not been updated

Actually, I don't even agree that S|C don't update their website. The most recent update was China Messe announcement (and Frankfurt before that), before that we have had sales, and device announcements from G.O.S.T. and dNa, and I notice Shay Dan's profile has snuck in there - all in the last 12 months !

[Ripper]

Am I the only one that smells Braincell II in the neighborhood?

[EdivanSneberg]

Hi XITE experts, thank you again for the open discussion.

Thanks to you I could reconfirm for myself with your answers what is spread all over the forum in dozens of discussions.

My own XITE conclusion from what you say and what can be read here is:

Solid DSP HW I/O box with unsupported buggy firmware
DSP programming expertise needed to take advantage of the untapped potential
Usable as standalone outboard box via ASIO and MIDI but no answers to decent automation with DAW
Niche wow factors with excellent Modular synth and audio routing flexibility in the XITE internal universe like it was 10 years ago
Unclear future and unclear focus with a single SC person coding part time

What surprises me is the idelogic attitude some of the forum members are showing.
You seem to have a kind of paranoia that there are other points of view all around.
Noone will take your XITE away from you when naming quirks and maybe serious issues.

Excuse my dumbness not to join the bragging and 'HW is superior' train.
This is nonsense acording to what I have seen coming and going in a studio.
A musician and an engineer will take advantage and inspiration from HW and from SW when it is usable and approachable and expressive.
Best is when things fit to each other as much as possible to relief me from things the computer can do for me.
Here I see the weak point of XITE and scope 5 for me. So I will wait.

Also I personally do not buy the price tag view.
Those references on SC website will never pay their free XITE.
I assume money comes from the average small home studio in the basement or even ambitious amateurs only.
For these guys the price is high.
Price appears even higher when XITE is not ready to use because some important functions do not run.

Thank you guys again for your patience and help.
Fingers crossed that SC has a good intuition what is needed when.

regards Edi

[djmicron]

DSP programming expertise needed to take advantage of the untapped potential
Usable as standalone outboard box via ASIO and MIDI but no answers to decent automation with DAW

no dsp programming needed, what is needed is take care of dsp usage.

Automation via DAW can be done via midi, or via audio, yes you can automate via audio too, just remember it's not a closed box, it's modular, not meaning the modular IV itself, all is modular inside scope, so you can do the same thing in many ways.

What surprises me is the idelogic attitude some of the forum members are showing.

I talk for myself, i just wanted to clarify something that is not clear to wannabe XITE users, about performance and some stereotyped concepts.

All the rest about poor marketing/documentation and slow development is true, this is why you are asking here and this is why you can find other threads inside this forum with the same identical argument and the same identical explanations.

[hubird]

My own XITE conclusion from what you say and what can be read here is:

Solid DSP HW I/O box with unsupported buggy firmware
DSP programming expertise needed to take advantage of the untapped potential
Usable as standalone outboard box via ASIO and MIDI but no answers to decent automation with DAW
Niche wow factors with excellent Modular synth and audio routing flexibility in the XITE internal universe like it was 10 years ago
Unclear future and unclear focus with a single SC person coding part time

Mwa, this conclusion is over the top Edi
- I never look at my DSP spread, at best I confirm the system message to reorganize the DSPs when loading another synth or mixer. And I have no X-ite but cards with less powerfull DSp chips.
- Automation is easy via midi from the DAW (Cubase in my case). Each therefor designed knob or function (including pr and bank change) has a 'midi learn' possibility, just rightclick for the pop-up.
- the 'bugs' are actually more or less abandoned or not-longer-cared-for features which may or may not work on newer systems. XTC, STS sampler, some sequencing features.

True, with djmicron I say S/C could be more open about it in the documentation, but to me it is also clear that these features are not core aspects for any DSP studio system.
It was a choice to have the DAW outboard, it's clear that samplers are better served by native CPU embedding (i.e. RAM), and XTC would be nice but for a system which is much more than a list with plugins (like UAD) it's clear that life combining a complete studio platform with VST functionality isn't really handy or practible, at least with clumsy system updates by native world.

About the future: a niche product always has an unsure future, alltho this is possibly compensated by the love of the small S/C crew for the system.
For those who need future proof-ness, there's always NI

Now if you had mentioned the lack of OSX support I would've agreed with you...

[EdivanSneberg]

Hi Djmicron and Hubird,

sorry for misinterpreting the SDK need as DSP programming. I am not a DSP programmer neither a SDK programmer. This is not my ambition and not what I want when looking for an outboard box for Modular, instruments and effects.

Djmicron I see your most honorable effort to work around the sequencer bug. When I am right this means that with every change to the Modular sequencer you have to force a reload of the entire project by switching Master/Slave in settings.
This is not nice by SC since you have nailed down the issue already but SC does not issue a fix for the bug. Correct me if Im wrong SC support denies the bug and does not take your groundwork to improve.

I have not dug into this manual DSP placement stuff with XITE since that looks like an art and mouse click orgy when I trust the forum manuals about this issue.
I just saw that recently a member of the forum (fra) has maxed out the DSPs of XITE for the first time by developing modified instruments dedicated for each numbered DSP in XITE. This is why I regard XITE's firmware buggy and unsupported.
This honestly is not what I am after. I have no doubt that after a learning curve I can manage it, but that is what computers are for.

Got it already Hubird that VST and sequencing is seen as unnecessary by the experts.
I do not agree, but that is my humble view.
Though I think SC needs to urgently and openly tell the XITE wannabees like myself that things like VSTclients, sequencing in Modular and as I learn sequencing elsewhere are simply not available, will not be fixed and are not attractive for Modular and other instruments.

The OSX support I swallowed already some years ago, now, thanks to the kind help of the forum, I don't have to swallow things like abandoned VST and Modular sequencer bug after being trapped into XITE assuming continuity.

Actually I am not so sure about NIs future, but they at least progress tangibly.

Sorry my best effort remains to wait for a scope 6 improvement.
Albeit I get the notion that the scope 6 alpha state will not end before 2015 or something.
I have no doubt listening to the seasoned answers here that SC has the best advisors in the world to take the right decisions.
Lets move on.

regards Edi

[fra77x]

Hi,

these days i will upload sequencing modules for the scope platform for free. I have created these 4-5 years ago, it's quite easy. They permit note length, 2 modes glide. There will be 2 types. One for synth sequencing and one for drum sequencing. The control of these will be a bit painful. You'll have to wait about 2 months for the new sequencer modules that will have an opengl interface.

Also these days i made a simple midi "hardware" sequencer with arduino. It costs 20 euro. (arduino board, a resistor, a midi female jack). I can't understand whats the big deal with the sequencer modules. In the world we have about 1000 different types of midi sequencers. Only one platform like Xite...

The big frustration "musicians" get these days, and make them blame their tools is the great expertise of their competitors. Too pity music was and will always be an art. Something that needs dedication and effort.

Regards,
John

[EdivanSneberg]

Hi John aka Fra,

I saw your great development efforts for the DSP placement on XITE.

Albeit there is a misunderstanding in case you respond to me.
I would be affected by the sequencer bug in Modular.
Note sequencing and drum equencing is done much better in a DAW than in Modular.
What I am after is control, pitch and gate sequencing for sound design in Modular.
Sure I am aware that all those 'one shot i have a sound' scopers do not need this.
Though for synced and unsynced sound design in Modular this is necessary.

Havent seen your likely great devices I guess you are providing a note sequencer maybe a CC sequencer but that is not what can be reasonably used in Modular.

And from what I see this will also limit the use of such an external sequencer with other instruments internal sequencer like in sb404 when i recall it right.

I can agree 100% that music is an art, albeit buggy instruments and manual DSP placement is not. Unless you are in circuit bending and chiptunes.

regards Edi

[garyb]

you can have all that control in modular!!!!

the firmware is neither especially buggy, nor is it unsupported!

there are a few devices that don't work, but they are far from showstopping, nor are they prime parts of the system.

the only thing that is hard about Scope is that it is a REAL studio in a box. it interfaces with the real world the same way that any other hardware interfaces and it also intefaces with apps in the computer. all connections to hardware are realtime and connections to software are very low latency. it's a complex system only because it is capable of so much, so that means that some engineering skills are needed. you need to be able to connect things in the real world and have some idea of how a real studio works(since it IS a real studio).

massive cv/gate control of all kinds of parameters is possible with something like Expert Sleepers Silent Way(do a search for those four words here in this forum).

[jksuperstar]

For sound design, it would be nice to have the control sequencers that are default to the system.

That said, there are 3rd party sequencers that work, both free and not free.

The FleXor III modules are the best...they use a ramp for indexing into the sequencer, and so can be controlled via audio rate signals, pitch/CV signals, or signals from a DAW. CWModular.org has a few freely available that are similar.

[fra77x]

...

Put a new modular in the project window. Set the midi channel to omni. Connect the midi in to the sequencer source.
Put 2 midi channel filters inside. Put 2 mvc modules inside. Connect the first to the first midi channel filter, the second to the other. Put a control val module. Assign it to a midi controller.

Connect the esync output with the gate output on each mvc module. Use the first one for "pitch" sequencing, the second for "gate" sequencing. Use the control val for "control" sequencing.

Are you sure you are not a "one shot i have a sound" guy either?

Modular synthesizers are nothing else than "circuit bending" and "chiptune".. Have you ever studied the nord modular tutorials? It's almost rocket science...

Manual dsp assignment is very easy. I do it for years. You don't have to do it. Just find another solution. I prefer manual dsp assignment and great amounts of dsp power than limited dsp power and discontinued products. After that there is true analog modular synthesis or native modular synthesis... It's electronic music you don't have many choices.... Or you have all the possible choices...

For the sb-404 sorry i haven't ever used that synth. I didn't even knew it exists...

Regards

PGC.jpg

[EdivanSneberg]

Hi guys
I did not expect you to be so fanatic helping me.
It is not often that people help unselfish.
You make me think again.

Garyb I am not happy with your answers because you repeat to tell me I am an idiot and I am not capable to understand the audio world and DSP gear in particular like you do. Please accept for a good chat that there are people like me that do not share your view based on their experience with creamware, soniccore and studio workflows.
Dont misunderstand me, you are ok, but I am not wrong because you say I am wrong until you give me more than just bold generalisations.

Albeit thank you for your endurance.
I wish SC will have the same endurance fixing the Modular sequencer bug.

Jksuperstar you seem to be the one closest to what I am after.
It is so simple.
Modular had easy to use modules like this

Now these are broken for no significant reason.

Fra points me to a somehow doable workaround for pitch and gate. Continuous control signals (not coarse midi cc) inside Modular with retrigger, gate sync etc is another story. I have to buy Modular 4 and I have to buy flexor instead of getting a bug fix.
As much as I thank you for that fra, it tells the full story about the buggy firmware, the neglection of Modular and the introduction of unnecessary mouse click and storing orgies for workarounds.

Fra you also tell me I have to find another solution for the DSP placement.
Ok this is where we have different views. I see SC in charge when they want to win me as an average dumb customer of outbox gear. Excuse me, they have to think about easy to use DSP placement for dummies like me buying their gear.

But hey, again this turns into I am not eligible and clever enough to deserve scope and XITE. Sorry I won't buy a XITe and Flexor and Modular 4 to go bragging and call myself a modular god.
Instead let me thank you for helping me so unselfishly.

You guys are excellent in finding workarounds !
Why not fixing the root cause ?
Because I am a dumb idiot that asks obnoxious superfluos bug fixes ?

Fixing bugs for the Modular as the killer app of XITE to avoid unnecessary hassle should be a no brainer.

regards Edi

[Sounddesigner]

Hi guys
I did not expect you to be so fanatic helping me.
It is not often that people help unselfish.
You make me think again.

Garyb I am not happy with your answers because you repeat to tell me I am an idiot and I am not capable to understand the audio world and DSP gear in particular like you do. Please accept for a good chat that there are people like me that do not share your view based on their experience with creamware, soniccore and studio workflows.
Dont misunderstand me, you are ok, but I am not wrong because you say I am wrong until you give me more than just bold generalisations.

Albeit thank you for your endurance.
I wish SC will have the same endurance fixing the Modular sequencer bug.

Jksuperstar you seem to be the one closest to what I am after.
It is so simple.
Modular had easy to use modules like this

Now these are broken for no significant reason.

Fra points me to a somehow doable workaround for pitch and gate. Continuous control inside Modular with retrigger, gate sync etc is another story. I have to buy Modular 4 and I have to buy flexor instead of getting a bug fix.
As much as I thank you for that fra, it tells the full story about the buggy firmware, the neglection of Modular and the introduction of unnecessary mouse click and storing orgies for workarounds.

Fra you also tell me I have to find another solution for the DSP placement.
Ok this is where we have different views. I see SC in charge when they want to win me as an average dumb customer of outbox gear. Excuse me, they have to think about easy to use DSP placement for dummies like me buying their gear.

But hey, again this turns into I am not eligible and clever enough to deserve scope and XITE. Sorry I won't buy a XITe and Flexor and Modular 4 to go bragging and call myself a modular god.
Instead let me thank you for helping me so unselfishly.

You guys are excellent in finding workarounds !
Why not fixing the root cause ?
Because I am a dumb idiot that asks obnoxious superfluos bug fixes ?

Fixing bugs for the Modular as the killer app of XITE to avoid unnecessary hassle should be a no brainer.

regards Edi

Stardust, i mean EdivanSneberg, why don't you stop your trolling now. You are determined to point out minor flaws and magnify them to appear major even tho you've been given valid solutions. You've lied on Sonic Core by stating they abandoned mac and neglect modular when in fact Creamware discontinued mac support and modular was one of the first things SonicCore upgraded so far not to mention third-party continuesly adding modules also. You ask for help but no one can tell you anything cause you already have all the answers (and never was looking for any answers). Your just trying to drag a thread on to cleverly bash. You've stated your not going to buy a XITE and are not interested until SCOPE 6 release and they fix what you deem as overly buggy and broken software, then why keep posting? Why not move on now? For a new poster who has'nt used SCOPE since mac version and who just got a forum account you seem to know all the recent threads to use for attacks and good attack points on the platform that sadistic veterans know and use. And make others seem like elitist enjoying bragging rights when they tell you any good about XITE (a insulting Stardust tactic). You never used XITE but insist it is seriously buggy despite others stating different, and that dsp placement is needed and a pain to do tho others have stated otherwise - well who can tell you anything after that? You claim to not have heard of Stardust but you should have since you've been in the threads he was in such as djmicrons sequencer fix thread, you harp on all the same flaws as him with a determination to make the platform look bad and not accept any rational answers.

Can we end this sharade now? There should be no reason for you to carry on everyone has answered your every complaint with valid solutions, if those solutions are unacceptable then that would make moving on still best would'nt it? Why waste time on a product and company you obviously are not happy with? If they abandoned you, refuse to fix seriouse bugs, neglect, and keep the product with a horrible workflow as well as having a doomed future, than why get envolved with them {S|C) knowing they won't change {atleast not changing should be assumed given the experience and longtime nature of the problems you have}? With your level of complaints, negative attitude, unacceptance of any reasonable and valid solutions, and combativeness its clear you are not interested in XITE just interested in some form of petty warfare.

[Roland Kuit]

As I wrote before: sequencing is so easy with the Xite-1.
And the least interesting stuff.
Sequencing in the Modulars can be done with the for you easy sequencers from CWM and Flexor.

[EdivanSneberg]

Hi sounddesigner,

with all respect I dont understand your post.
Are you serious to allegate that I am another person ?
Sure I have checked in the meantime that there is another member named stardust.
You are right, yes this guy has similar concerns, but he obviously has no intend to go into XITE because of the VST, where my point is the bug fixes.
It is obvious you hate him for whatever reason, but does it justify to talk to me like a weirdo ? You even call me a liar. Who are you to behave like that ?
You may have objections to stardust, but that is not my business.
I wish you and stardust the best to come together for a good glass of wine and get over your hate.

Thank you Roland Kuit even if you disrespect sequencing in Modular I respect your unselfish advice to buy Flexor or use CWM and forget the stock sequencers.
unfortunately this means also you do not believe in any support by SC for the stock sequencers in Modular and the other synths. I hope you will also spend a sequencers chapter in your book. I look forward to read it.

Thank you all again for the great help.
I enjoyed very much the open minds and empathy.
Fingers crossed that scope 6 will arrive and makes also my Modular dreams come true.
I quote myself, lets move on.

regards Edi

[Roland Kuit]

I do respect sequencers and know how to build them up from scratch.
It is only that at this moment in my life, I'm busy creating music in an other way.
Back to my roots.

But I did some sequencing in the 70's and in the 90's and 5 years ago when I was doing techno etc:
http://youtu.be/qnmWYwCXTrc




You can buy the Xite-1, or not, the decision is yours.
I think the Xite-1 is a great apparatus with lots of possibilities for that price.
It is peanuts regarding to hardware with the same sound quality.

[dante]

Lol ! Yeah the notion that you (Roland) don't respect sequencing in Modular - that's a ripper. At one point I was thinking that some of Edi's logic was quite reasonable until I ran into that one !

[Ripper]

Lol ! Yeah the notion that you (Roland) don't respect sequencing in Modular - that's a ripper. At one point I was thinking that some of Edi's logic was quite reasonable until I ran into that one !

Did you call me?

On topic: This topic is ... herm... awkward(?)!

[garyb]

i compared my knowledge to you and called you an idiot? never.

why shouldn't you have to buy those modules? there is more than enough in the stock XITE package for your money.

Roland not understanding the importance of modular modules? that is a laugh riot. you obviously don't know that he is famous for his use of electronica....

maybe not Stardust, but certainly a troll...you make the topic a question and then argue the answers. if you already know what you think, then there's no need for further discussion. don't buy one if you don't want one.