21th of December - Time Reset

[Nestor]

21st of December - Time Reset

To me, the first part of the song represents live in today’s world, the confusion and fights of the opposite interests of corporations, countries, political parties, banks, organizations and powerful people, one against the other, while we, the street people keep trying to enjoy as much as we can our own simple lives. This goes on up to “3.36” in the line of time of the song.

Then it comes this amazing “Cosmic Moment” we are waiting for at “3.37”. We can feel the energy already starting to change and we can feel the “new”. (Not necessarily bad, I don’t see it this way, I like it, but I will probably feel really strange facing different sensations and emotions).

At “3.58” the conjunction starts to actually happen and the energy starts to flow into our minuscule solar system (compared to the magnitude of this colossal celestial event), and then at “4.19” we are in the middle of it, receiving this bath of energy in our bodies and souls, while watching up to the sky in amazement…

At “5.01”, life starts all over again and the new cycle begins and so our lives, we are in the count 0.0.0.0.1 and can feel the new energies flowing around us.

At “6.57”, I wanted to represent the changes that will happen in the next years.

Here the song:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25529735/21st% ... 0Reset.mp3

Cheers

[kensuguro]

wow, super compressed drums.. it holds ground in the busy mix, but thought it sounded a bit over processed.

But overall, very nice writing as usual. Tight bass/guitar unison. Strangely with this piece I just listened to it as a tune, more so just as a sensational thing rather than the usual story/flow sort of thing. Just sounds the overall groove in this one is a lot tigheter compared to others, and I was just enjoying that.

[Mr Arkadin]

You might like to know that it is impossible to say 21th (twenty-oneth?) - that's why we say 21st (twenty-first). One of those weird English things.

[Nestor]

wow, super compressed drums.

Cheers Ken! It's probably too much, yes.

This song was difficult to mix and master, because it is thick in frequencies. What would you do to fix it then, because drums are easily lost otherwise, and in such a groove it is important to have them up front?

It is a strange song, quite different from what I usually write.

[Nestor]

You might like to know that it is impossible to say 21th (twenty-oneth?) - that's why we say 21st (twenty-first). One of those weird English things.

Ups..., I should already know it by know... I'll change the title, cheers.

[kensuguro]

Perhaps change the spectral space sharing a bit.. I felt the lead wasn't as bright as could be, so maybe pulling up high end on that, and cutting a bit on 200hz range. (it almost has a formant-locked kind of sound) The 2nd guitar sits further back because of chorusy effect.. Not sure if that helps, or perhaps stereo micing the amp (in amp sim or whatever) to give it spread will help retain the freq definition better. You could also do a room sim with a tiny room that's fairly wet, to give 2nd guitar stereo spread. The 2nd guitar having more freq definition should really clean things up. Giving the lead a slight room verb could also spatially differentiate it in the mix. (so drums don't have to fight it on just tone alone)

Main thing I think is that there's overlap in 200hz range from both lead and 2nd guitar, and esp chorus on 2nd guitar muddies the mid lows, and I think the strong highs and compression in the drums is to make up for that. So once the mid lows are tidied up, you may be able to re balance the drums given the cleaner space. Also, if you push up the lead guitar, you may end up with some space in 200-1k range to give drums more body.

If your drums are super punchy to begin with, you might get away with overdriving them a bit for some more dominance. At least with overdrive you can give them dominance without making them sharp as pins. Or, if you like the spiky sound, you may be able to overdrive after comping so you get the transient, but don't have to pull up the treble to increase presence.

[Nestor]

Wow, that was really sharp Ken. I have to try it all, thank you man

[next to nothing]

Not touching the thematics, I like your musicianship

As Ken pointed out there is something wrong in the dynamics. I think the sound palette is rigtly picked, but there is something missing in the mix. The most obvious is the drums, wich actually seem not just overly compressed but EQed as a whole with a highpass filter and a too subtle stereo image. The base guitar is supplying all of the bottom end, where i would like some more precence of the drums, especially the kick. If you insist of using the mid-pitch kick, some subtle low-release sidechaining might help, allthough i suspect you have the drums on a too-much-treated bus. I think i know what you are aiming for but there is too little punch to get you there.

Also, and maybe this is on purpose, you have a pad in the background that might be purposeful to be more present, as it seem to be from 1:40 and up.

The drums flatness is especially transparent from 2:00, but from that mark i like your synth processing. The guitar/synth lead is good, going to the crecendo at around 4 mins.

At around 4:10 you start treating your reverbs as they should have been treated all trough, and more range is introduced Stereo image becomes bettter, frequency image becomes clear and overall purpose is probably fufilled.....

Apart from the drums, especially the low end.

Oh. I see you have quoted 6:57 as a key point, i would like to introduce 6:45 as my highlight as the drums suddenly gets body of some sort


PS: All the way from the beginning you have a pad in the background which deserves some more dynamic treatment, in my ears.

PPS: I might be fooled by my Sennheizers.

(edit:headphone brand )

[Nestor]

Thank you Next to Nothing, your comments are really of great help too, just like those of Ken. I appreciate your maturity as a person, being capable of dividing music and philosophic points of view, that makes me really happy and I want you to know I appreciated it enormously

This song is being difficult to master, but interesting. Anyway, as I said somewhere in this music forum, I don’t want to reach perfection, I mean, I wish I could, but from a very good mix and master work to a perfect one there is an abyss of difference of work that does not worth the effort, as long as you don’t release it, like it is the case with this song. I think I have reached a happy spot now thanks to your advices, let see what you think. Now let get to what I’ve done in detail:

I have changed the spectral space as suggested, for a start, spreading the stereo field of the pad to 100% left – right, which helped to make some room for everything else in the middle. I have also raised the pad level a little, and now it stands out better, perhaps not as much as you would like, but well, for the sake of balance, I could not bring it up anymore than that.

I compressed the bass in a different way adding to it some high frequency distortion for it to have a greater definition with less gain, getting back some more air for the rest of the frequencies, which has worked pretty well. Even if you may perceive the bass as being quite the same in level, it is lower than before, which is great for the general purpose of what we want to fix.

The main guitar lead has been increased in the upper range from 25000.0 to 2799.0 Hz with some harmonic enhancement added, and also added a small room to separate it from the rest of the mix as suggested.

Drums have been cut a little in the upper range and have also reduced the level of compression, which gives to it a more natural drummer like feel. What is most important in this particular drum fix is that it melts better with the rest of the mix, in particular with the bass. Ha, yes, I was forgetting that I have also added, as suggested by NtN, a little more bottom to the bass drum, it makes the groove stronger, I love this detail it really gives more taste to the whole feeling, cheers

I have removed altogether: chorus, delay and spring-verb from one of the guitars that makes the counterpoint with the bass, and the panorama have definitely cleared itself letting more room for the rest of the elements.

Well, I don’t know, I’m pretty happy with it now, but if you think I should still go farther, I may try some more fixes, but if you feel that it can stand a good musical moment, that would be enough for me.

The mastering itslef it is, perhaps, slightly too bright, don't know now.

This is the new link:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25529735/21st% ... 0Reset.mp3

I have changed the link in the first post to replacing it with this one so nobody will listen to the first one and then say: “hey, so this is the right one now?”

That’s it, thank you again.

[kensuguro]

yeah, I think the melodic instruments cleared up quite a bit. The drums still have a strange dynamics about them.. they're just way too punchy, almost in an exaggerated yamaha Motif kind of way. The pads being spaced out more helps maintain harmonic integrity more, that's good. yeah, I think the rest are sort of technical stuff, like maybe trying out different drum sets, messing with drum dynamics, saturation, etc.. but really, as a composition this is done. The rest of the stuff is at a point where it's letting the musicianship show through (or featuring it) and not clouding it.

[katano]

It does lack a bit of feedback, doesn't it?

[Nestor]

It does lack a bit of feedback, doesn't it?

The guitar lead you mean?

[Nestor]

BTW Ken, I am working yet into another instance or mix and master version for this song. I will soon upload the new link. I don't have much time but I thought of a few ideas on how doing it better, and I think I found the problem with the drum and the problem is "transients". I will fix that and some other related problems to get a background, melody and countermelody as clear as possible, which is what we want, don’t we? Cheers

[Nestor]

Ok, done! Final version is here Ken. I did many little changes, too many to make a list I would if I had time. Anyway, the drums have been worked out a lot and I think I achieved what I was looking for. Tell me what you think now. Cheers

New link:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25529735/21st% ... 0Reset.mp3

[kensuguro]

yeah, the drums are still on the snappier side, but overall balance is good in terms of space sharing. The lead also has good separation now vs the 2nd guitar.

btw, the kicks strongly remind me of this song.. or your drum track has a similar overall characteristic. Snappy, clicky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesr2siegRg
very clicky sound. I guess it's sort of a standard sound.. Only difference is that Obscura guys have gone completely insane.

[Nestor]

Hi Ken

Wow, that’s true, drums in the song you point out sound very similar.

I have never used heavy metal drums before; I guess I am not really made for this kind of music anyway. You probably still don’t like much the way drums sit in the song or its characteristics; I humbly have to say that I like them pretty much, particularly its kick sound.

Anyway, just talking about the group you mention, Obscuria, which I didn’t know before, I dislike very much the voice of the singer…, it’s like burping all the way, and I neither like the song or the vive of group. I have never been a fun of anything heavy or similar. Now, if you give me a track made by Mike Portnoy, you can be sure I would do a cool fusion song out of it

I will farther master it, I would like to get into the world of harmonic overtone saturation and special S/M management, I think I will be able to improve all my masters with these new techniques that I have not used before for mastering. Thank you for your friendship

[kensuguro]

I think they sit in the mix well. The snare's just compressed too tight. It's probably less so any processing you're applying but just baked into the sample. The snare has that explosive transient that makes it sound like you're hitting a wooden box with a wooden stick. It's definitely one of the archetypical snares so it must have its uses, I just don't use it. The kick I think you have perfectly under control. Also, the transient has lots of power at a slightly lower freq range (like 400-500), which is lower than where I prefer my snap to be (more like 5000-8000). But again, it's more about the sample than your manipulation.

Obscura.. ya, the guy has the voice from hell. I'm not really sure why he sings at all because the instruments really are the star of the show. To me their sound like the whole band is just 1 huge drum section that plays in unison. I mean, as far as progressive heavy metal goes, I think their skill level is pretty high (doing metal things). Some interesting meter changes here and there, but melodically and harmonically not much happening. BTW, the bassist is on a fretless for whatever reason.

[Nestor]

it sound like you're hitting a wooden box with a wooden stick.

yea...

the bassist is on a fretless for whatever reason.

that's unusual..., I would prefer a fretted one honestly, it has much more punch for this kind of music, but it also makes it to sound different, which is cool.

Now, if you ask me about anything rather heavy that I really like, I would say Planet X, they have some really killer songs and an amazing skill as individual musicians and as a group. I would recommend for you to buy their album called



Please Ken, come back in the future to this thread, I will remaster it again. Cheers