scope on xp64 - does it work?

[tomylee]

hi I just tried to move back to windows xp, I can edit faster there as cubase is not so laggy and unresponsive there!

but I got an error trying to use the 64 bit version of scope! does anyone of you have it running in xp64?

greets
thomas

[dante]

Fokas ?

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... 64#p271627

And Valis ?

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... 64#p255122

[tomylee]

hey, thanks for the link, it didnt smarten me up though too much, does it mean it works with 4.5 and old keys only?

thanks for a quick reply, I'in the middle of and installin optimizing marathon, turned out that xp (non 64bit) had a driver that made a huge dpc problem (jmicron sata/raid driver, wtf I dont even have a raid!), deactivated it and it went down, but then every time I moved the mouse dpc latency went from 10us to 200 microsenconds!

so now im trying install xp64 parallel to xp32 to see whtats going on in parallel...

would be a dream though if I could run scope on xp64, Im really disappointed from windows 7, it is laggy, fast audio editing in cubase with win7? forget it.

[dante]

Did you run installer 'as administrator' ?

[tomylee]

no, gonna try that

[tomylee]

didnt work, I actually also was administrator before

[garyb]

running "as Administrator" has nothing to do with your user account, but it's also a win7 thing anyway.

only v5.1 is 64bit ready. there was never any other 64bit Scope software. i wouldn't be surprised if xp64 didn't play nice, since win7 64 was well established by the time that v5.1 was made. xp64 was not much in nuse by then. then again, two users had success, so it obviously does. what version are you installing?

[tomylee]

I installed 5.1, maybe the two users will eventually chime in here - for now I install all my vsts and softwares on XP32 - I have xp64 installed parallel, and would not hesitate to do the same there...damn I have a DPC latency of 3µs stable, does anyone of you get that low with a corei3/5/7 machine on win7? and the graphics are now finally fluid again, it took me so long to get to my dream system, I better buy out old stocks of p35 mainboards, q9550 cpus so I am safe hardwarewise for the future, no need to upgrade anything, well maybe Ill get an xcite-1 once the stable gets limited by only 2 14dsp cards in use, those seem to be stable now at least maybe the wav driver is usable now too and maybe I can dump my raydat interface, going to win7 was a timecostly mistake for me...but then I only went cause I messed up my windows xp installation which was my fault...had not even made a backup...what was I thinking...

[Bud Weiser]

running "as Administrator" has nothing to do with your user account, but it's also a win7 thing anyway.

only v5.1 is 64bit ready. there was never any other 64bit Scope software. i wouldn't be surprised if xp64 didn't play nice, since win7 64 was well established by the time that v5.1 was made. xp64 was not much in nuse by then. then again, two users had success, so it obviously does. what version are you installing?

Just a slightly OT question, Gary.

I´m a Win Xp fan too and actually I´m not sure if I should invest in a Win7 64Bit upgrade (software and hardware) this year or not.
In fact, it will depend on if SCOPE 6/ Open Scope will run on Win XP or if Win 7 will be essential to run SCOPE 6.
I imagine, it could be because of OSC support and/or ParseQ or whatever comes new software wise.
Do you have any info on this ?

It´s also, I think about buying a older laptop used/refurbished and found out Lenovo T500 w/ Intel T9600 Core2Duo processor (2.8GHz/ 6MB cache), TI Firewire, Express card 34/54 slot,- could do the trick w/ Win XP 32Bit and 4GB of RAM and run some VST stuff in addition.

But if Scope 6 will need Win 7, that might not be the best idea because upgrading XP to Win7 32Bit doesn´t make much sense to me.
Win7 as a OS is larger size than XP and needs more RAM and for a 64Bit system 4 GB RAM is not much/enough.

OTOH,- there aren´t any new laptops w/ PCIexpress card slot out there,- except the expensive solutions from ADK Pro Audio or the Orgin gamer laptop.

Bud

[Bud Weiser]

I installed 5.1, maybe the two users will eventually chime in here - for now I install all my vsts and softwares on XP32 - I have xp64 installed parallel, and would not hesitate to do the same there...damn I have a DPC latency of 3µs stable, does anyone of you get that low with a corei3/5/7 machine on win7? and the graphics are now finally fluid again, it took me so long to get to my dream system, I better buy out old stocks of p35 mainboards, q9550 cpus so I am safe hardwarewise for the future, no need to upgrade anything, well maybe Ill get an xcite-1 once the stable gets limited by only 2 14dsp cards in use, those seem to be stable now at least maybe the wav driver is usable now too and maybe I can dump my raydat interface, going to win7 was a timecostly mistake for me...but then I only went cause I messed up my windows xp installation which was my fault...had not even made a backup...what was I thinking...

If you plan buying a XITE,- why not controlling it w/ a laptop and 32Bit Windows, than using your PC tower/rackmount machine for the VST stuff in your studio and connect the studio PC and XITE (controlled by laptop) via ADAT and MIDI ?
That way, you´d be able to run your old cards in your already existing machine forever and w/ XP64 if it´s already stable on your computer and w/ SCOPE.

Bud

[garyb]

Bud, i don't know if xp will be suported, sorry.

i'd say the odds are good on the poor, fair, good, excellent scale.

[Fluxpod]

Will not work on xp64 ever.Just forget about it.No Music software i know of is working on xp64.

[garyb]

yeah, i can't see the attraction to xp64. i think that people can work with 4gb of ram effectively as well, not that it's bad having more.

[Bud Weiser]

yeah, i can't see the attraction to xp64. i think that people can work with 4gb of ram effectively as well, not that it's bad having more.

Gary.- I mentioned my question as "slightly OT" because I´m a Win XP 32Bit fan,- not XP64.

But,- when SCOPE 6 will be released, only running on Win 7,- and XITE owners want to go w/ a laptop solution where a PCIexpress card slot is essential to connect a XITE, there seems to be no option to go w/ Win7 64 Bits and it´s advantages in regards of RAM size because almost any affordable new laptop has no PCIexpress card connection anymore.

Now, you might say "go w/ Win7 32Bit on a older laptop where the RAM limit is 4GB",- but to me, that´s a idiotic investment and unnecessay installation process (incl. all the VST stuff we use in addition to SCOPE) because we´d be fine w/ Win XP 32Bit too then.

So there would be 2 options:

1.)
Make Scope 6 running w/ Win XP 32Bit for the XITE owners and laptop users as long there´s no other connection available than PCIexpress ... or

2.)
Offer another connection cable for XITE to be up to date w/ todays and future laptops running Win7 64Bit and allowing 8GB or more RAM.
As far as I can look into the future,- that would be a HDMI >Thunderbold/Lightpeak cable then,- isn´t it ?
Or shall we go w/ USB at last ?

I don´t expect SCOPE 6 and sample library monsters like Kontakt running w/ Win7 64Bit on a laptop w/ 4GB RAM only,- but I see SCOPE 5.1 32Bit and Kontakt as well as Reason running on a Win XP machine w/ 4GB RAM in my home.

By that reason, I´d urgently need to know if SCOPE 6 will run w/ Win XP or not and before I invest in a older laptop and the PCIexpress cable from S|C,- maybe for 2 or 3 month only.

Bud

[garyb]

yeah, need those big ram farms for 2gb pianos without sustanuto pedals...


seriously, though, i don't know about the speculation about connections. usb would be stupid. why can't one use win7 64? why would xp be the only usable option other than win7 64bit? win7 32bit and xp are pretty much the same option as far as i can tell, once all the aero crap is disabled. who's to say that xp won't be supported? i don't think anyone knows about that right now. i'm not speaking against, i just don't understand.

[Bud Weiser]

yeah, need those big ram farms for 2gb pianos without sustanuto pedals...

Wrong,- I don´t need it for piano because the acoustic piano isn´t my prefered instrument at all.
But there are other libraries being usefull w/ Kontakt like strings and brass,- all bread & butter stuff you need in live performances and probaly it´s necessary to run a Kontakt multi then.

For me it´s all about:

If I have a laptop machine w/ 4GB RAM supported and go Win7 32Bits,- will that be enough RAM to run the OS, SCOPE 5.1 (later SCOPE 6) plus a VST host, plugins and Reason 6.5 ?

I doubt it is enough RAM because I´ve read (and I hope that isn´t wrong) Win7 itself, even it uses ressources differently, needs up to 75% more RAM than WinXP 32Bit does.
Is that correct ?
If yes, where´s the advantage of Win7 32Bit over Win XP 32Bit for audio/MIDI and why should I buy Win7 32Bit if I have XP anyway ?

Now, if we talk about the same machine (4GB RAM) running Win7 64Bit, well, that should be more worse.

seriously, though, i don't know about the speculation about connections. usb would be stupid. why can't one use win7 64?

See above the 4 GB RAM limit of older laptops which offer a PCIexpress card 34/54 slot.
It will be possible to run SCOPE 5.1 or 6 on such a laptop for sure,- but I fear running more and if it´s sample based is a no go because there should be 8 GB RAM available then.

Are you aware of any older Core2Duo laptop w/ PCIexpress 34/54 card slot supporting installation of 8GB of RAM ?
Which ?

who's to say that xp won't be supported? i don't think anyone knows about that right now.

Well, S|C should know meanwhile, isn´t it ?
And I HOPED for, you eventually have some information,- that´s all.

i'm not speaking against, i just don't understand.

Well, I´m fine w/ 32Bit up to now and if I have Win XP installed on a machine w/4GB RAM only, there will be more RAM leftover for the user after WinXP is loaded than running the same machine w/ Win7 (if the info about RAM usage of Win7 above is correct).

In addition, running 2 applications w/ Win XP,- SCOPE and a VST host p.ex., makes full usage of the 4GB RAM anyway,- no Win7 necessary.

Also, if we have Creamware PCI cards in old machines, built form old hardware, 2GB RAM only, P4 processor, old graphics cards w/ only 32-128MB RAM, it would be great we´d be able to use SCOPE 6 with these and Win XP 32 Bit.

Just only my opinion.

Bud

[tomylee]

isnt the whole ram discussion obsolete now that we have SSD harrdiscs and can run the windows pagefile on them? no sample library is ever gonna stumble when run from the pagefile, after ram space superceeded?

[garyb]

if you turn off all of the visual "enhancements" in win7, 4gb of ram on win7 is very similar to xp in usage. yes, it's a little heavier, but not for the difference between working or not.

there's no info on the rest. if you really need more ram in a laptop, you will need a very expensive one, for sure. that's the cost of doing business. a rackmounted desktop will certainly make more sense from a technological and budgetary standpoint, imo.

v6 fixes are supposed to benefit v5 users as well, or that was the word when v6 was started. until it's all finished, there's no information about how that will work. i'm sure that the time spent and customer patience will have something to do with how complete the job can be. i'm waiting to see just like everyone else. i'm not a programmer.

[Bud Weiser]

if you turn off all of the visual "enhancements" in win7, 4gb of ram on win7 is very similar to xp in usage. yes, it's a little heavier, but not for the difference between working or not.

Ahh, o.k., that´s the answer I waited for,- thank you !

I already bookmarked 3 older and same brand/type Intel Core2Duo laptops coming from dealers w/ 1 year of warranty incl. 4GB RAM, 160GB SATA HD and Win XP Pro pre installed and they have PCIexpress card slots and TI firewire.
I think it´s easy and non-expensive upgrading XP to Win 7 32Bit then.

there's no info on the rest. if you really need more ram in a laptop, you will need a very expensive one, for sure. that's the cost of doing business.

I´ve found out today, the model I have in focus can be upgraded to 8GB RAM (DDR3/1066MHz,- PC3-8500), but I´d have to swap the complete set of RAMsticks to do that later when 64Bits might become necessary.
The HD is 5.400upm only, but there are the "Ultrabay", Firewire and 3 USB2 hi-speed connections and I think I´ll wait for a 64Bit system until SCOPE 6 is out.

a rackmounted desktop will certainly make more sense from a technological and budgetary standpoint, imo.

I own 2 rackmount PCs here in my studio room,- but for traveling they are heavy.
This would work for touring, but not if I have to haul the gear around myself.

My idea is to do both and having XITE-1 and a Ferrofish in a small separate rack always.
Disconnect the standard PCIe cable from XITE, grab the laptop w/ all the software installed like on the rackmount, plug in the PCIexpress cable and go w/ 1 masterkeyboard only and earphones/IEM.

v6 fixes are supposed to benefit v5 users as well, or that was the word when v6 was started. until it's all finished, there's no information about how that will work. i'm sure that the time spent and customer patience will have something to do with how complete the job can be. i'm waiting to see just like everyone else. i'm not a programmer.

Yeah, the job should be done good and by that reason we don´t know when SCOPE 6 will be relased.
As a consequence, now when a working laptop for XITE-1 is found,- it should 1st run w/ SCOPE 5.1 32Bit and Win XP Pro SP3 or Win7 32Bit and later being upgradeable to run Win7 64Bits.
Otherwise the investment would be only for a short time,- and that´s why I needed the clarification.

thx again

Bud

[dante]

Its quite possible that by the time Scope 6 comes out, Windows 8 will be out as well, and proven to be a stable combintation. Unlikely I know ( since everyone will say stay of Win8 for at least 2 years ) but still possible.

No-one knows - you need a damn strong Crystal Ball ver 110 to know....