The monster of atomic war is upon us, again...

[dawman]

Fear not Nestor, the Iranians will tremble in fear when the USS Jimmy Carter CVN 00 thunders into the Persian Gulf....
He had that effect on people. The Russians and Iran would actually pray they never angered this strong individual.
Yeah he fucked up so bad he got a Nobel Peace Prize.
He was the Chevy Volt of Presidents.......

[hubird]

Whatever it is the fake behind, they are heading matters toward a war, there is a focused will for it, as every day we see we are a step closer:

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPoliti ... ?id=261576

You're doom bla-blating.

1. who is' they' (are heading)
2. who is 'we' (see)

At least Obama isn't focussed on a war.
He can't take the risk of getting the Arabic world against the US, plus -more importantly- he would loose the elections if he starts a war.
Without the US Israel can't start a war against Iran.
There are too much nuclear installations to bomb (more than 25), some of them deep underground, Israel can't fly through the air zones of all surrounding countries including Turkey, and therefor the distance (over 2500 miles) get's too long for their bomb planes, those require refueling on the fly which can't be done without US military support.

At least this is the analysis of a serious documentary about the Israel-Iran conflict I saw on tellie last week.

So enjoy your wishful thinking trip, but I don't believe a word of it.

[Nestor]

[hubird]

that's better.

some other spicy food for thoughts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/opini ... &st=Search
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/world ... odayspaper
etc. etc.

[dawman]

Hubird you should read Julian Assanges wikileaked documents that show how the Suadis and others in the region have given Israel permission to use their Air Space, and Israeli Pilots train here at Nellis AFB right down the street along with several other nations from NATO, EU, Japan, Taiwan, Britain, Columbia, Canada, Chile and Argentina. Uncle Sam knows the Brits hate the Argentinians so they come at different times, and the Israelis get their own time slot.

Refueling information is really " dis " information to trick the enemy into thinking Israel is helpless w/o the USA.
Isarael knows this. The Iranians know that Israel knows. But Israel makes-believe that they don't know and the Iranians make-believe that they believe that Israel doesn't know, but know that they know. Everybody knows.

But you're catching on to American politics. You don't want a war while your lying your way back into office while promising scraps to the peasants, world peace and representation of the working man and the middle class.......

[garyb]

no, you wait a couple of weeks after the election.

[hubird]

JV and Garyb, I like those kind of arguments, tell them Nestor, to give some bottom to his linking science and evil doom religion.

[dawman]

We all have our own Cross to bear.
But the NYTimes and Washington Post are not accurate media and can turn on you as soon as the managing editor gets the orders from above.
For example NYTimes was most helpful about WDM as " proof " to get the public behind George Bush and Iraq.
But there are patterns to read, and it seems you are aware of this, that when the NYTimes and Washington Post say the same thing about someone, they are in deep Caca...

[Nestor]

Israel has one of the most, if not the best, aircraft army in the world, more than 300 nukes and all sorts of weapons and extremely high technology beyond imagination. Their pilots are also extremely proficient, being among the best in the world as well.

The development of this war is so evident that it is impossible for me not to see it. Now Russia says it will keep selling weapons to Syria:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10141192

Meanwhile US warns Iran telling them that if they don’t stop their nuclear program, they will be attacked.

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News ... ?id=261804

[dawman]

Obama is smart to antagonize these guys in Towels and Robes ( stoners of women ) by using Hillary or a women to deliver the diplomatic messages.
It would have had a greater effect if Sarah Palin in a Bikini dragging a recent Moose kill to the podium would deliver the message.
That has to really bother these wife beaters...

[garyb]

Israel's weaponry is all US property.
it's all loans...

[valis]

Might as well ramp up the rhetoric on multiple fronts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17365416

[Nestor]

Might as well ramp up the rhetoric on multiple fronts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17365416

What for would Iran at this stage make these kinds of efforts? That’s bizarre… I agree there, another speech-making move in the horizon, but who is behind it and what for? I don’t have a clue on that one.

[garyb]

none of this is as it seems.

those of us here that know what's up the best, have only been mislead more thouroughly.

they(yes, THEY that refuse to be named, but who give the order that flows downhill) may lob a few bombs and kill a buch of people for their dark sacrifice , or they may just make a few us us(everyone who is not THEY that refuse to be named) run around in circles like idiots. it may be a little of both (i'm hoping for the idiot route myself, just because i know who i am and i hate seeing blood spilled needlessly).

all i know is that if any of the power structure really existed for people's sake, it wouldn't be like this, it would be a lot cooler....

well, someone's gonna be right when something does or doesn't happen, and then even though the reason that it did or didn't happen would be for reasons incromprehensible, that someone can feel real good about being right.

actually, i don't think that it's in Iran's best interest to be "punked" in this matter. the last time there were carriers near their shore, they were aggressive then too. and nothing happened...
being belligerent worked for our lonely freind who just died in N Korea as well.
even if the saber rattling didn't work and the bluff is called, it's no worse than rolling over and getting creamed anyway...

assuming that the USA really intended to attack(even using Israel).

i'd add that only the lower IQ government or ATT employees, and only the most gullible of them, want the US in ANY war. we'll see what happens.

[Nestor]

all i know is that if any of the power structure really existed for people's sake, it wouldn't be like this, it would be a lot cooler....

I have always asked myself, when I was a child, why politicians would never talk about the most important things like love, peace, understanding, wellbeing, the inner-self, friedship, family, etc., through big congresses and the so, and the answer with the years revealed itself, and of course is that they don’t care about “values”, they only care about “profit” and most of all, “power”.

If this power structure existed for people’s sake, as you mention, the core of it would truly be interested in us, “people”, “citizens”, the world would work in a completely different fashion and countries would be together to fight against hunger, cold, health problems, and even psichological problems like depression, and all the other basic things we need for a good living like a real education that teaches you how to live life, in state of preparing us for their money-power making machine. I cound not agree more with this! It is obvious that education does not prepare people to be “good in essence”, but to be "machines of profitability" to be used by the monster multinationals, that is why education does not represent psychological intelligence and emotional maturity at all, all on the contrary, education can make of us monsters with the power to harm others through a developed intellect to the service of crime, (when intellect is dissociated from the values of the heart) and this is the case of so many wolf-politicians out there. If they where to really care about us, there would be no frontiers, divisions, and wars would be unnecessary. But it seems that sometimes we behave more like animals than like human beings… Unfortunately, it seems that what we learn, instate of using it for constructing wellbeing, we tend to use it to benefit at any cost from others, even if we benefit from their blood!

I think that a war is never really needed, we make it possible because we tend to not to yield in front of anybody - this is the animal side we carry within - we build wars with our divisions and fights, but wars are definitely not necessary for life itself, they are our own stupid human creation.

[dawman]

I watched Star Trek and dreamed of all people together in a Federation Starship and thought that was cool, then I found out Spock was stealing money and Kirk was being forced to act as a heterosexual, so it kind of blew apart my Miss World view of Peace On Earth.
Man needs a few hundred more years to evovle, and forget the hatred, but when there are still so many various Gods, with no real winner in sight, that might be a ways off.

We really need some ET to land and give us the newest version of the 10 Commandments, then we can start over.

[Nestor]

Nice wishful thoughts my friend:

[garyb]

man's fine.
i'm not afraid of conflicts and ambition.

it's just a matter of what is seen as important.
beyond shelter, food, and a clean place to shit, it's all learned values.
watch tv, read the literature that's featured and listen to the words of the songs that are considered "important" and "artistic" in every era and look at now.
it's got nothing to do with evolution. this is the opposite.

if you consider the amount of money required to make a movement a fact, and where it comes from, then you'll understand what i mean. how do writers manage to spend day after day working on their craft? yes, there are jobs and careers, but for those who matter, there are grants from philanthropic trusts. movies are funded by major investment capital, so that even the most "anti", "revolutionary" work is approved by those it claims to oppose. television is even more tightly controlled and the music business only has "grass roots" because there is someone taking care of seeding, watering and fertilizing the lawn.

if i were in charge and wanted to maintain power, i wouldn't tell people what to do, i'd teach them what to think.

star trek was cool, it assumed, like all works about utopia, that the actual structure of the power system was designed with only the most altruistic intentions, so that even when bad men abused the system, they would always be eliminated. star trek ultimately made us trust the world system just being solidified at that time. it was propoganda and one of my all time favorite shows. the fact remains, however, that the real world system was not designed with altruistic motives, rather there are some good men who find themselves in the system, but ultimately they are eliminated. the daily experiences of the majority of the humans bears witness.

[hubird]

television is even more tightly controlled and the music business only has "grass roots" because there is someone taking care of seeding, watering and fertilizing the lawn.

you must be talking about your own country, isn't it?
I don't recognise this picture a a controlled television so much for my country.
And who is that mysterious man/woman who is 'taking care of seeding, watering and fertilizing the lawn'?
Is it the gardener of the eveil elite, or the herd who forgets about his sheep and is cradling a bit?

[skwawks]

and the winner is ......SELF INTEREST...... and I'm guessing thats why they wont "drop the big one now".I always liked the fact that Randy wasn't going to do Australia " dont wanna hurt no Kangaroos"... bizarre ... but friendly