Scope Synths vs. VST - listening comparison ?

[MCCY]

Are there any attempts? I'd like to see some links with direct comparing between some emulations.
As I mainly use vsti right now, because I have to use my laptop instead my desktop, (because of my unrooted lifestyle and family obligations rightnow) I would be the one who should do that, but I became lazy in extensive test-szenarios...
I just did a quick listen comparison under very unideal situations & bought GSI VB3 for replacing my often needed B3000 for 36€, what a great deal. I like B3000 very very much with its right in the face character, but VB3s leslie is another dimension. Sounds very realistic to my ears.
...

Martin

[garyb]

sounds good is always nice.

the thing to compare with is a real B3 and Leslie. you still might like the vsti better. it depends on what you want.

[next to nothing]

The thing with B3000 is that as an emulation it has tried to emulate and not improve. as an example, the shitty vibrato on the b3 is apparently precisely as shitty in B3000.

I take this from http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug06/a ... amware.htm Its the b4000 asb though, but they are pretty similar.

[MCCY]

it depends on what you want.

wise words. And it goes even further in two ... or more directions:
1. Listening to a real B3 is an experience of its own. Listening to a recording is another one.
2. Somebody might like a bad simple organ vsti better for some funny music in some situations.
3. Playing and feeling a real B3 is an experience of its own ... as important this point is, I forget that too often, while trying to get a sound. Maybe the Most important thing is how you live & play your musik. If I could afford it I had a big hall with all "real" instruments.

Exaxtly for that "personal taste" decision, I am just curious, how I would decide when listening to direct comparisons. I allways have (as most people I think) that stomache decision when listening to two things and promtly deciding which one I like better.

I bet it would be soniccore-synths which my spontanious decision would prefer (just from the first sound impression), but I'd like to proof that assumtion (and experience it, how that listening impression works) and analyze it for myself WHY I would prefer which thing.

[irrelevance]

Well I've been trying to find some filter plugins that I can use while on an extended trip away from the studio but am having real difficulty finding something that fits. The stock filter in ableton live sounds dull in comparison to interpole for instance. Many people rave about Fabfilter plugs but I really don't like the GUI on their plugs although I have checked out simplon and it does the job quite well. Consensus has it that Soundtoys filterfreak is very capable, although it means giving up (yet) another usb port for licensing (cubase also) so that purchase means further money out for a hub. Haven't yet tried the PSP N20 but I own and always reach for the PSP84 which sounds smooth to my ears. I have my go to vsti's like absynth, fm8, wavestation while scope and a supernova II/ SY77 can handle anything else. I really like the immediacy of vsts.

I had a try of the spl transient designer to see if it could sustain like the old creamware version...In this particular instance it couldn't. It Smeared the drums terribly and the attack setting was very very sensitive in comparison. Maybe a bit more work with it I might have been able to find the right kind of settings?

[astroman]

regarding the Hammond it's probably the Leslie that makes most of the difference.
But even on some classical records it's not alweays captured well.
On YT a few fellows have impressive recording of the cabinet, tho
The Ventillator VST has some high regards and iirc Jimmy tested it once, but stayed with his fully analog 'micro-cabinet' solution.

I recently found the Scuffham Amp Simulations mighty impressing, holy crap...
A/B ed it with Mojo, a matter of taste - but the VST covers a broader range of sounds.
At least one of the models seems to be usable as a fantastic bass amp. On par with Dynatube imho.

on the synth side I found Gladiator pretty cool.

cheers, Tom

[MCCY]

Just compared SC MINIMAX to Minimogue VA. It would be difficult, to send my hearing experiences as an audio example, so I guess one must (in most of the cases) try on his/her own. I (of course?) like the MINIMAX better: Its sound is more predictable. Let alone the waveforms sound much clearer (not in a digital way, but in a logical, of what I expect from the forms on the knob display). On the other hand I was able to produce the sounds I was looking for on both synths, so 2nd wisedom for me: tweak on your own.

My most beloved VSTi synth for now is chameleon (EDIT: I meant CHARLATAN). That's absolute unquestionable highend sound for many of the simple synth sounds I'm after & I guess Scope has at least nothing better in that category.

Finally most of those actually highly recommended freeware VSTi synths have qualities of their own which I would miss if going back just to Scope. I think of rather using Scope as a big synth machine in addition to my mobile system one day again.

In case of amplification I'm with LePou (and a bunch of other freeware tools) and have to say I bet that at least its Metal Sounds are (although I have no Experiences with a real Mesa) more convincing than our beloved softubes while others are comparible high quality. O.K. they eat quite a bit CPU, but that doesn't really matter on an older I5... Wow, what is possible now with actual I7 & Co. Unbelievable!!!

[astroman]

it's funny you mention it, as I put some stuff from Poulin right parallel to Scuffham's. (Brit and SoloC)
But I switched off everything except the pure amp emulation...
Poulin isn't even remotely comparable, it's a total flat sound with few expression (not bad for a freebem, tho)
Scuffham is very detailed even on high gain, and it has a lot of precise(!) highs - it CAN cut.

cheers, Tom

[MCCY]

But for 75 $ they're nearly free as well .

[jhulk]

my problem is there are not any vsti of my favourite synths

apart from 1 prophet vs the Arturia prophet v

but the wave froms dont sound the same when sampled there close but not identical

the filter is lacking and does not punch at all like the real version and no implimentation of user waveforms

which killed it what is good tho is the sysex implimentation

the vectron is better as you can use user waves and it has that 12bit grunge

but the filter is lacking also they need to up date with the ssm filter chip that will give it the edge

no sysex implimentation i find that lacking on all s/c synths so fm and any other synths that sonic core cant be expanded wirth the sysex banks from people making sounds for those synths

i have 250+ banks for my vs but with the upcomming scope open then maybe a sysex convertor program could be made for this

theres no sy99 or sy77 vsti which are synths i use regurly

no korg z1

there is the m1/t1 emulation and with the added filter res but the keyboard sounds way better and on my t1 and t3ex i can load up my own pcm samples which they did not include in the vsti

no scope equivelent

korg dss1 great synth and sampler mine has got the 24mb upgrade as i was the first in the uk to get it and provide a fitting service from the designer
it was the only sampler to have hard sync on its waveforms you can get mad sync sounds with what ever samples you throw at it and that filter is to die for fat and massive

i made a modular module from 2 of those filters for a vector mixer and dual filters with matrix12 topology pole mixng with the final vca 1 set as xpo the other linear its a great module would love to have that in scope modular

no vfx-sd emulation best poly aftertouch keyboard lovely board same as the asr10 i have 3 keyboards now used to have 4 just sold 1 i use them as my keyboard controllers as theres nothing else that offer the polyat as good

the gem s3 turbo has a nice polyat keyboard but not as nioce aas the asr10
no fizmo
no waldorf wave or uwave there are a few wavetable synths but they are not on par

the ppg2.3 the vsti is very close but the filter does sound better on the real board i prefer the free version from herman siel of vsthost fame and he has a waveterm implimentation so that you can send samples to the ppg2.3 and make new wavetables

no EII/EIII/emax1 emulations i love those boards so lovely and the EII sounds so nice 16bit samples compressed to 8bit the uppedto 12bit just does something to the sound they just shimmer

would love to see some 8bit and 12bit dsp samplers in scope mirage doc chip emulation would be great esq1 sq80 anyone the vsti version is close but lacks the cem filters

im in personal contact with butchy so now that the scope open project maybe his student who designed the sq80l which is free and includes sysex

could port it but using the cem filters emulations from scope

i could go on for ever

the virus would now also be a possibility for scope now as well

kontakt for scope but with the cems and ssm and ob filters now that would be a good project and i would buy that

[siriusbliss]

To my ears the Scope synths have more 'mass' and have more presence in the final mix (more to work with).
That's my totally UN-scientific approach - my ears.

I'm a guitar guy that only dinks around with synths, but am LOVING layering ModIV, Vectron, Atze, and P5 with my MIDI guitar - all with very low latency and good tracking response. I have YET to find any VST that sounds 'real' enough to consider working with, and I really don't need anymore emulators.

The only VSTi I'm using for the most part is Omnisphere, but it's filters and so on are subjective to my ears.


Greg

[jhulk]

if a good sfz or sf2 osc is implimented then an omnisphere synth would easily be capable in the scope enviroment

the wave osc at the moment are just not good enough especialy for multisounds

i have omnisphere its a good synth the synth layout is what a s760 is like

the filters are ok but not a patch on the spacef or rd2 or flexor3 or mod4

i mostly sample my vsti for sound pallets and then layer them with other in emulatorx3 and kontakt and my hardware samplers

[dawman]

Try this on the Leslie.
Make sure and open presets and select 001.
Then assign the same controllers to the Rotor Switch of the B2003, and the RoyT. switch inside of the Modular Shell.
You can thank Brotha' Man at0m for this.........

I don;t use VSTi's because of Windows/Mac OSX getting in the way of every IPS.
This has a huge difference when you listen to a DSP vrs. a VSTi synth on powered stage monitors.
The VSTi's sound as if they were eminating from the rear of the speaker, but on headphones and nearfields, with the excessive effects needed to mask their shortcomings they sound quite nice. Lady GaGa's guy makes great mixes, and Katie Perry too.
I wouldn;t be caught dead playing those live but ITB they work really well in some cases.
But editing the synths is what it takes to get them to fit in a mix or sound bigger.
I prefer that work be done for me through superior coding, and less latency, less artifacts/zippers.
But sample playback is where I see Native excelling, and audio/MIDI recording.

New Folder.zip

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[MCCY]

"But editing the synths is what it takes to get them to fit in a mix or sound bigger."

So true & thats what I found out in my listening sessions today. Everything can be tweaked to everything, but it is no fun, always tweaking, while you can have better results out of the box.
For me this round goes to scope.

With the guitar-amps it's just the same. I have no problem getting superb sounds out of LePou, Scuffham is really nice, still testing, but I think mainly for their redwirez impulses. Dynatube is my favourite because of its absolute simplicity and perfect sound.

[astroman]

...Scuffham is really nice, still testing, but I think mainly for their redwirez impulses. ...

no way - I didn't even touch those, compared only the amp modelling.
This interview made me consider it a serious attempt, before I had listened to audio examples with lots of fx, so thought it's another me-too with convolution modelling (not my cup of tea, btw).

cheers, Tom

[siriusbliss]

"But editing the synths is what it takes to get them to fit in a mix or sound bigger."

So true & thats what I found out in my listening sessions today. Everything can be tweaked to everything, but it is no fun, always tweaking, while you can have better results out of the box.
For me this round goes to scope.

With the guitar-amps it's just the same. I have no problem getting superb sounds out of LePou, Scuffham is really nice, still testing, but I think mainly for their redwirez impulses. Dynatube is my favourite because of its absolute simplicity and perfect sound.

To my ears it's a close tie between Dynatube and Vandal.
Vandal gaining an advantage for having more MIDI control for effect handling.

Both sit well in a mix.

Greg

[MCCY]

...Scuffham is really nice, still testing, but I think mainly for their redwirez impulses. ...

no way - I didn't even touch those, compared only the amp modelling.
This interview made me consider it a serious attempt, before I had listened to audio examples with lots of fx, so thought it's another me-too with convolution modelling (not my cup of tea, btw).

cheers, Tom

youre right, now I switched between the two heads, both going through the CABs of Scuffham. Its brilliant & easily noticale more dynamic. Lives.

[astroman]

... I have YET to find any VST that sounds 'real' enough to consider working with, and I really don't need anymore emulators.

you probably know this already, but just in case:
they are shipping... Kemper Profiling Amplifier

cheers, Tom

[MCCY]

bought the scuffham, thanks!