i'd like to change my old computer, is a powermac G4 or G5 a good option to continue using my scope sound card ?
any bug or problem with scope on that kind of computer ?
anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
pci slots? 
otherwise the g5s running on windows would work great.
otherwise the g5s running on windows would work great.
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
if you're familiar with MacOS9, then a G4 'Quicksilver' would be a cool machine - of course totally outdated, unsupported and developement on the OS seized > 10 years ago.
But the Quicksilver is considered the most powerful and reliable Powermac running OS9.
The later 'double mirror door' model is almost a bitch in comparison.
With that model Apple changed the boot options to OSX only. Some early DMDs can boot OS9 and OSX.
Every machine later in production (starting with G5) will REQUIRE OSX, and there's no Scope software for the latter, so you can safely forget about it.
Apple's path into OSX has been a nightmare of paradigm changes for developers, a company like Creamware or Soniccore simply lacks the resources to follow.
I'd even go as far as calling it an intentional process by Apple and a handful of major software suppliers. (snip...)
Seriously - I'm supporting Mac networks on a professional level since 1986, but I wouldn't suggest it as a platform for Scope at all.
Except you're an OS9 die-hard and have a Quicksilver in perfect condition at hand...
There isn't that big difference between OSX and Win7/XP from a user point of view.
In fact while writing these lines I received a support call for an OSX machine that lost it's ability to print certain documents...
you guessed it... 'PDF' LOL
cheers, Tom
But the Quicksilver is considered the most powerful and reliable Powermac running OS9.
The later 'double mirror door' model is almost a bitch in comparison.
With that model Apple changed the boot options to OSX only. Some early DMDs can boot OS9 and OSX.
Every machine later in production (starting with G5) will REQUIRE OSX, and there's no Scope software for the latter, so you can safely forget about it.
Apple's path into OSX has been a nightmare of paradigm changes for developers, a company like Creamware or Soniccore simply lacks the resources to follow.
I'd even go as far as calling it an intentional process by Apple and a handful of major software suppliers. (snip...)
Seriously - I'm supporting Mac networks on a professional level since 1986, but I wouldn't suggest it as a platform for Scope at all.
Except you're an OS9 die-hard and have a Quicksilver in perfect condition at hand...
There isn't that big difference between OSX and Win7/XP from a user point of view.
In fact while writing these lines I received a support call for an OSX machine that lost it's ability to print certain documents...
you guessed it... 'PDF' LOL
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
ok Tom thanks a lot !
in fact i'm currently running an old Pulsar I card under Win98 SE and it works fine, but i'd like at some point to upgrade to a more recent computer.
The point is that i know from experience that it is hard to get a stable environment for music purposes under Windows and i'm quite reluctant to pass to Win XP for example... do you know where i could find some tricks to configure it for that purpose so that it works as smooth as posible ? are there some kind of motherboard or processors to avoid, or at contrary to prefer ?
in fact i'm currently running an old Pulsar I card under Win98 SE and it works fine, but i'd like at some point to upgrade to a more recent computer.
The point is that i know from experience that it is hard to get a stable environment for music purposes under Windows and i'm quite reluctant to pass to Win XP for example... do you know where i could find some tricks to configure it for that purpose so that it works as smooth as posible ? are there some kind of motherboard or processors to avoid, or at contrary to prefer ?
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
according to Erminardi the Gigabyte GA-P55 UDP runs very well with latest CPUs, myself I'm running a Gigabyte EP-41 with a 3.2 Ghz CoreDuo with nothing to complain.
As mentioned in another thread I wasn't successful with am Asus P67 (which at least ended in a stable setup for other stuff).
An Intel P67 board was a complete disappointment. Both boards had barely no PCI 'performance' at all.
With a single Pulsar One you're even more depending on the latter as it's handling of the bus is way slower.
I'd strongly suggest getting it a 2nd generation DSP card companion, a Luna or a Pulsar 2 is quite affordable today.
Seen a Luna for 75 Euro on eBay recently... you'll get lower latency plus extra DSP juice.
I never tweaked my Windoze systems much except for the most obvious 'eye-candy', auto update, system restore and indexing options.
As a sound generation and processing box Win98 is perfectly ok, in fact I still have one such system on a compact flash drive.
But for running (native) audio applications and sequencers almost every software gets along with XP much smoother.
There is absolutely no problem if you install your set of tools and then forget about it.
Just avoid excessive install/de-installs and (preferaby) browsing the internet and gaming on the same system.
Macs were stable with OS7/8, but that was decades ago.
OS9 was a piece of crap intended to prepare users to OSX, getting worse with every release.
In early version you still had the advantage of way more user-control than any other OS would offer - and it took the publishing industry years to eventually give up on it.
Apple HAD to make the machines refuse to boot OS9...
So you don't really loose anything - just trading one screen layout for another
I see Windoze as a carrier for my applications, I don't expect anything smart from M$.
Scope doesn't do much with the OS, SAW Studio (basic), Band-in-a-Box and my developement system can be installed by simple folder copies...
Imho it all breaks down to Cesar's rule: divide et impera ...
I don't want to have everything on one single machine - if you're not after the latest and greatest bells 'n whistles it's dead cheap to have several specialized boxes.
I paid 60 Euro for the motherboard and 100 Euro for the 8400 CoreDuo, 40 Euro for 4 GB Ram, 25 Euro for passive Gforce-I-dunnowhat (not a gamer at all).
My personal plans have been slightly messed by the afforementioned 'bad' experiences, so I plan to use the Asus P67 for sequencer (SAW), video cut (Edius) and software developement (audio card RME 9652 HDSP).
Scope and BIAB will remain on the GB EP-41. Both machine will be disconnected from the internet and communicate via Adat.
For the latter and daily communications, YouTube and other browser stuff I'll setup a another box which doesn't even have to be high speced...
cheers, Tom
As mentioned in another thread I wasn't successful with am Asus P67 (which at least ended in a stable setup for other stuff).
An Intel P67 board was a complete disappointment. Both boards had barely no PCI 'performance' at all.
With a single Pulsar One you're even more depending on the latter as it's handling of the bus is way slower.
I'd strongly suggest getting it a 2nd generation DSP card companion, a Luna or a Pulsar 2 is quite affordable today.
Seen a Luna for 75 Euro on eBay recently... you'll get lower latency plus extra DSP juice.
I never tweaked my Windoze systems much except for the most obvious 'eye-candy', auto update, system restore and indexing options.
As a sound generation and processing box Win98 is perfectly ok, in fact I still have one such system on a compact flash drive.
But for running (native) audio applications and sequencers almost every software gets along with XP much smoother.
There is absolutely no problem if you install your set of tools and then forget about it.
Just avoid excessive install/de-installs and (preferaby) browsing the internet and gaming on the same system.
Macs were stable with OS7/8, but that was decades ago.
OS9 was a piece of crap intended to prepare users to OSX, getting worse with every release.
In early version you still had the advantage of way more user-control than any other OS would offer - and it took the publishing industry years to eventually give up on it.
Apple HAD to make the machines refuse to boot OS9...
So you don't really loose anything - just trading one screen layout for another
I see Windoze as a carrier for my applications, I don't expect anything smart from M$.
Scope doesn't do much with the OS, SAW Studio (basic), Band-in-a-Box and my developement system can be installed by simple folder copies...
Imho it all breaks down to Cesar's rule: divide et impera ...
I don't want to have everything on one single machine - if you're not after the latest and greatest bells 'n whistles it's dead cheap to have several specialized boxes.
I paid 60 Euro for the motherboard and 100 Euro for the 8400 CoreDuo, 40 Euro for 4 GB Ram, 25 Euro for passive Gforce-I-dunnowhat (not a gamer at all).
My personal plans have been slightly messed by the afforementioned 'bad' experiences, so I plan to use the Asus P67 for sequencer (SAW), video cut (Edius) and software developement (audio card RME 9652 HDSP).
Scope and BIAB will remain on the GB EP-41. Both machine will be disconnected from the internet and communicate via Adat.
For the latter and daily communications, YouTube and other browser stuff I'll setup a another box which doesn't even have to be high speced...
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
xp works great. it's stable and there's a lot of software. win7 works great. it's a load of crap that windows is less stable than any mac os, unless you're talking about win98....syborg wrote:ok Tom thanks a lot !
in fact i'm currently running an old Pulsar I card under Win98 SE and it works fine, but i'd like at some point to upgrade to a more recent computer.
The point is that i know from experience that it is hard to get a stable environment for music purposes under Windows and i'm quite reluctant to pass to Win XP for example... do you know where i could find some tricks to configure it for that purpose so that it works as smooth as posible ? are there some kind of motherboard or processors to avoid, or at contrary to prefer ?
apple or M$, it makes little difference once the setup is finished.
when the time comes, i'm happy to tell you what tweaks to do, although basically, they just involve turning off the "eye candy" to save a few resources, as astro said. in fact, G5 macs are MUCH faster on xp than they are on OSX....
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
ok fine, so now i'm ready to use Win XP
the only problem left is that of the noise... the more powefull the CPU, the more noise the fan does to cool it... with my current old configuration of 550 Mhz CPU no problem at all, but with a recent CPU how do avoid that nightmare ?
the only problem left is that of the noise... the more powefull the CPU, the more noise the fan does to cool it... with my current old configuration of 550 Mhz CPU no problem at all, but with a recent CPU how do avoid that nightmare ?
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
well, most of the newer stuff is quieter, actually.
if you build a new computer icluding power supply, the level of noise will drop. i still wouldn't record a quiet passage right next to it, though.
if you build a new computer icluding power supply, the level of noise will drop. i still wouldn't record a quiet passage right next to it, though.
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Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
Newer CPU's generally needs less cooling as they run quite cool. I don't have a new CPU here, but i think the stock fan is pretty quiet. If not, an extra silent fan shouldn't set you back too much if you need one.
A comparison between stock cooler and 3rd party coolers (its an old article, but if you google you can probably find others):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hea ... 375-3.html
Notice its pretty similar when PC is idle, the difference is when the CPU is working hard. 40-50 dB might seem scary, but you get cases that absorb most of this anyway.
A comparison between stock cooler and 3rd party coolers (its an old article, but if you google you can probably find others):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hea ... 375-3.html
Notice its pretty similar when PC is idle, the difference is when the CPU is working hard. 40-50 dB might seem scary, but you get cases that absorb most of this anyway.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
first of all it's the power supply fan making noise.
Do yourself a favour and get a quality PSU, it's a much more important part than it may seem at first glance.
The cheap ones aren't only loud (or becoming loud after a short period of use), but emit a lot of garbage noise on the powerlines.
If they fail, they can easily take motherboard, CPU and even the DSP card(s) with them by erroneous over voltages.
The Intel fans are indeed not as noisy as they used to be, but their load dependant driving can become annoying.
I added a Scythe to my box (a nightmare to place due to those fu**** clips), but if it's barely hearable - relative to the PSU (supposed to be exchanged for a more quiet one the next days).
There is fan control software with most current boards, so you can adjust them from the OS according to your needs.
As you'd probably not want Intel to 'drive' your CPU (as they do in consumer environment to fake more power than really present... or energy saving blurb...), you might deactivate that 'dynamic' stuff alltogether.
If the CPU gets too hot you still might reduce the CPU multiplier a little bit - may read strange, but I prefer a silent system over anything...
cheers, Tom
Do yourself a favour and get a quality PSU, it's a much more important part than it may seem at first glance.
The cheap ones aren't only loud (or becoming loud after a short period of use), but emit a lot of garbage noise on the powerlines.
If they fail, they can easily take motherboard, CPU and even the DSP card(s) with them by erroneous over voltages.
The Intel fans are indeed not as noisy as they used to be, but their load dependant driving can become annoying.
I added a Scythe to my box (a nightmare to place due to those fu**** clips), but if it's barely hearable - relative to the PSU (supposed to be exchanged for a more quiet one the next days).
There is fan control software with most current boards, so you can adjust them from the OS according to your needs.
As you'd probably not want Intel to 'drive' your CPU (as they do in consumer environment to fake more power than really present... or energy saving blurb...), you might deactivate that 'dynamic' stuff alltogether.
If the CPU gets too hot you still might reduce the CPU multiplier a little bit - may read strange, but I prefer a silent system over anything...
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
definitely i won't go for mac now
what about HDD ? at the time when i bought my old 550 Mhz most of the drives where very noisy, but a few of them where ok (seagate if i recall well) , what is the situation now ? i guess they made some progress in that direction also...
what about HDD ? at the time when i bought my old 550 Mhz most of the drives where very noisy, but a few of them where ok (seagate if i recall well) , what is the situation now ? i guess they made some progress in that direction also...
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
yep, they still grind, but it's silent compared to back then...
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
I have several Western Digital Caviar 'green' drives.
They are less noisy than an Intel standard CPU fan (CPU idle) and stay quite cool.
As heat (and noise) increases with number of internal drive platters, the smaller versions of 760 GB are significantly different from their large capacity relatives. I have a direct comparison to several 2TB picture archive disks (same type) in office use.
I'm very happy with these drives. Cheap, reasonably fast, reliable.
cheers, Tom
They are less noisy than an Intel standard CPU fan (CPU idle) and stay quite cool.
As heat (and noise) increases with number of internal drive platters, the smaller versions of 760 GB are significantly different from their large capacity relatives. I have a direct comparison to several 2TB picture archive disks (same type) in office use.
I'm very happy with these drives. Cheap, reasonably fast, reliable.
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
Hi again, now i'm about to buy the diferent pieces to built my brand new PC under XP...
according to the discussion we had i go for :
MB = gigabyte GA-EP41-UD3L
CPU = Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3 GHz
that is ok to make my Plusar I and Luna cards run well right ?
now what about the power supply ? is 400 W enough (i won't use my PC for any other purpose than using the Creamware cards) ?
and what about the graphic card ? any suggestion ?
sorry for such stupid questions but there is so much choice nowadays, i'd like to avoid spending hours reading about it
according to the discussion we had i go for :
MB = gigabyte GA-EP41-UD3L
CPU = Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3 GHz
that is ok to make my Plusar I and Luna cards run well right ?
now what about the power supply ? is 400 W enough (i won't use my PC for any other purpose than using the Creamware cards) ?
and what about the graphic card ? any suggestion ?
sorry for such stupid questions but there is so much choice nowadays, i'd like to avoid spending hours reading about it
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
you will have a hard time to buy that board, unless you know a 2nd hand source (imho).
Even the P55 Erminardi mentioned is officially labeled 'end of lifetime' on their website
cheers, Tom
Even the P55 Erminardi mentioned is officially labeled 'end of lifetime' on their website
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
oh yes i do have a second hand source.astroman wrote:you will have a hard time to buy that board, unless you know a 2nd hand source (imho).
Even the P55 Erminardi mentioned is officially labeled 'end of lifetime' on their website
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
Running a dedicated scope system off a g4 mac 400 mhz i think with 384mb of ram os 9.2.2 i think .. Works like a charm!! Scope never fails on me. Also use the system for smdi towards my rmu sampler... But if ypu get an old mac.. Change out the hardrive with a silent one
1x pulsar 2 and 1x lunar 2
.. Btw never had any memory problem with 384mb.
1x pulsar 2 and 1x lunar 2
.. Btw never had any memory problem with 384mb.
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
So is 400 W enough for the power supply ?...
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
so didn't I with my Tualatin on Intel-815 under Win98 with 512 MB... and that operating system IS a total piece of crapehasting wrote:Running a dedicated scope system off a g4 mac 400 mhz i think with 384mb of ram os 9.2.2 i think .. Works like a charm!! Scope never fails on me. ...
1x pulsar 2 and 1x lunar 2
.. Btw never had any memory problem with 384mb.
(but as a Scope host it's just perfect, never fails on Midi buffer madness active sensing bs etc)
The G4 is rock solid though, I know it from many years of trusty service.
sure it is, unless you install one of those mega-bomber video cards and a dozen server disks.syborg wrote:So is 400 W enough for the power supply ?...
just bought 2 Seasonics with 380 Watt each...
cheers, Tom
Re: anybody using Scope with Powermac G4 or G5 ??
Hi everybody,
i've just bought a brand new computer with win XP, so i come back to you to get information about how to configure it for an optimal use of Pulsar I ?
cheers
JP.
i've just bought a brand new computer with win XP, so i come back to you to get information about how to configure it for an optimal use of Pulsar I ?
cheers
JP.