Iran?

[Shroomz~>]

Thomas PM Barnett. The Pentagon's New Map..get educated

Try studying the new rule sets for the 21st century..not the blunders of the past. They don't apply now.

I don't know what your point is. The 'new' rules according to people like Barnett have a foundation that's literally built from previous intelligence & military scenarios. That man or anyone he's connected with are not to be trusted. If you think waging war around the globe to bring eventual peace along with globalization is a good thing, you've been duped comrade.

[Shroomz~>]

In other words our foriegn diplomats are the only politicians we have that got any BALLS....

Well it's common sense that US & UK diplomats in Iran will be working very closely with intelligence agencies such as the CIA & MI6. Figuring that much out ain't rocket science & it's no secret that those agencies are practically always involved in cases of Middle eastern governments & regimes being overthrown. This must be what Iran refer to as 'meddling' in their countries' affairs.

case in point:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8102745.stm

Sawers is clean!

[garyb]

it's all in the spin.
i like how they all have the title of Sir.

[valis]

It's not just in the spin, it's in the writing. In the 70's & 80's there were several US Congressional 'thinktanks' where high profile authors (like Tom Clancy etc) were brought in to do 'role playing' and author up scenarios of potential terrorist activities. We know of some of these for how closely they mirrored the actual events in 911 and other events that are now actual history. Perhaps these great authors were prophets who have a keen enough insight to really ply their craft well when applied to the real world. Perhaps the 'conspiracy theorists' are right on some counts though, that those ideas gestated among individuals crafty enough to see them to fruition...

Either way I agree with shroomz, the US & its allies have done a keen job of positioning themselves in the region since the end of WWII (and before). Even if we're not deeply involved in creating this mess somehow (which I'm not necessarily suggesting) it's just too good of a situation for us to just sit back and let it unfold without any intervention. Since we can't be seen to be overtly doing anything lest it give the 'other side' fuel to throw on the fire against us, that really only leaves...covert? Again it doesn't *need* to be the US specifically... or even a government run agency really (Blackwater isn't the only private contractor in these arenas either.)

Lastly even the current US administration under Obama continues to name Iran & N. Korea as their 2 major focuses in world affairs (nuclear proliferation being the main 'thrust of attack' in those verbal jabs.) To think that it's only Hilary Clinton who cares about what's unfolding in Iran right now is...very narrowly focused imo. Yet personally I am not just interested in what conspiracies might be behind all of this, I'm just trying to make sense out of what must be the most 'grass-roots' and at the same time unconfirmable sources of 'news' we've seen yet. Conspiracy theories have their place in our discussion as they are indeed 1 potential aspect among many of things contributing to the events we see unfolding.

[dawman]

The Queen is discussing how she's happy with the Government Health Care Plan she uses.

royalty.jpg

[garyb]

fwiw-Persian women don't wear Burkas, that's Afghanistan. Iranian women were ALWAYS highly educated until the US lead revolutions, both revolving around the Shah(which is public knowledge now, the CIA even admits bombing buses full of school children and blaming the government in the '50's). also fwiw, Iran literally means "the land of the Aryans". they are NOT arabs, they are Europe's root stock, and the Indian Brahmin caste root stock as well. they used to value education over everything, as Persia was the repository of ancient learning, astronomy and math during the so-called Middle Ages.

the current regime is an abomination, for sure, even by Muslim law(as are all the middle east governments). the US and UK have no moral high ground here, however, no matter how much we might want it. the current government has the world stamp of approval. they are members of the UN. that's enough to prove their evil and their hatred of their own people right there. Muslim law calls for the respect and protection of women and their rights. the reason for coverng them is to prevent them becoming whores, but like everything else that power mongers touch, it's been twisted...

[netguyjoel]

I'm not a right wing nutbag..you should know this by now...but in my eyes, change is necessary...we both agree on that.

The culture is steeped in education, values, and morality, and has contributed much to the world..this we both agree on. The Gov't has to go...so this brings me back to my point...for the betterment of all in Iran...does ANYONE have a better solution.....conspiracy or not..there is wrongdoing in many governments, Iranian, UK, US,Venezuela, Iraq, Pakistan, Indonesia...if I spent enough time...I'd list most of the world countries. Is it better to do nothing? We have the means (we may not be on the high moral ground) in the end...The Iranian baby boom, that craves true freedom...which really needs to be accomplished. And I don't see the libs even giving one true firm statement to that effect. Nobody is offering anything..just more of the same, bicker, debate, & blog...what about the people that truly want the change...who is to accomplish it? Most gov's are in need of a "time-out" for Christ sakes, ours does...free the oppressed people from what has kept them from becoming what they desire! ...and if it takes some "evil doing" so be it...I'm all for the ends justify the means..I never got anything meaningful accomplished, without my hands getting a little dirty & bloody....the rest of the chicken shit society can sit by and watch, without offering ONE alternative......just one.....one....gimme just one.....BRING IT!!! And don't even say it has been our meddling....that is weak...insignificant...and petty.... I'm only interested in solutions....No pointing fingers..I'm so tired of reading it...it's old, weak, and these people are in need of a SOLUTION!....with all due respect......anyone.........anyone...........

[valis]

Sounds like you're ready for Regime Change (TM)!

I find it interesting how N. Korea puts on a huge show everytime there's a potential clusterfuck going on with US & Western foreign affairs.

[netguyjoel]

Once again...no solutions...just more cackling....SOLUTIONS.......anyone......anyone......

I like you buds...sow here are the solutions?????

[garyb]

we can't solve it. maybe they can.

we have our own problems here. it looks hunky-dorry here, but the people in charge are scheming to rip us off and then kill us off. who will solve our problems if we're busy fixing some one else's?

[valis]

Once again...no solutions...just more cackling....SOLUTIONS.......anyone......anyone......

I like you buds...sow here are the solutions?????

One doesn't always need to have answers in order to be involved in discussions. If it bothers you then why aren't you proferring any?

It isn't by MY choice that western culture has such a narrow focus on middle-eastern issues right now, but pretending like these things don't affect us and ignoring them certainly isn't going to help. Trying to increase my awareness of what's going on may not help solve anything for the Iranians. But given how untrustworthy the media has been for information about Iraq and other recent events that my tax dollars go to (and my peers in the military) I think I'd rather try to be clued into what's going on, even if I may never have a 'true' picture.

[garyb]

it's a way of being dismissive. or an invitation/excuse to meddle.
c'mon Joel, don't be cranky!

[valis]

Bit late for you innit gary?

[netguyjoel]

I'm not cranky Gary...

I like you guys & appreciate the spirited debate. My continual prodding for solutions, was for somewone to actually admit...that sometimes, in order to achieve a goal, like the overthrowing of leaders (I use that term loosely) in Iran...it might be necessary to deploy....oh yeah...a conspircy! Once in a while, the ends would justify the means.

BTW...there are alot of differnt solutions...I would be in favor of several different ones...covert, propaganda, even black ops...at this point...I just would like to see the Iranian theocracy dissolved. It is a clear and unwavering position I take on this one. I agree that the slanted media, offers no real truth either. Information in reality, works best. And the debate goes on....

[Shroomz~>]

I wonder why the US & UK destroyed a legitimately elected Iranian democracy in the 50's to install the oppressive monarch-based Iranian leadership. From what I can gather, it was purely based on their greed for Iranian Oil & Gas control because the leadership they shoehorned into power there basically allowed the US & UK to buy them out & essentially buy the control under the table. This situation ended with the revolution in '79 & the US & UK have been trying to plan cunning ways to regain control of Iran's Oil & Gas resources ever since. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[dawman]

You're right on the money Shroomz.
One only needs to follow the Oil/Cash to see that age old path.
Iraqi Oil has filled our strategic reserves to over a Billion barrels, and since that is public information you can multiply by a factor of 4 for a more accurate figure.
This is exactly why Obama knows he has a small time frame before US needs to drill offshore become apparent. Sure we got rid Saddam, but we didn't do it for free. We got to practice urban fighting tactics with new weapons and private security firms can do as they please while gaurding the Oil we took as collateral.
I am privvy to certain information from living in a state where the land is 92% owned by the feds.
They have more shit here than you can imagine.
Yucca mountain is a giant farce. Nuclear waste was never sent there once. But having friends and people who come to see our band that work there tell an entirely different story.
Trains with helicopter escort drove right into the mountain packed with conatainer cars everyday for 5-6 years, while politicians argue about whether to send or not not send Nuclear waste there........they are practicing their acting skills live on cable TV.
Citizens of the UK and the USA are all basically prisoners with exceptional priveledges of our giant host.
Actually I can understand why the Holy Clerics are worried about regime change, we have massed troops on both of their borders.
How would we feel if China had troops in Canada and Mexico, and Russian Boomers were practicing missile tests off of the coast of LA, San Francisco, New York and DC.....???
We all live in a world of shit and there's not much we can do about it other than watch the show.
I only know I can survive when the trucks stop rolling. I don't need to be controlled via vaccination for food plan that I am sure they have in place. I will hunt fish and thrive. And those who think Gun control is wise, just ask the unarmed Iranians who are getting plowed down what their opinion is.
On occasion the UK must disagree with the USA to give the appearance of seperately run societies when actually it's one big happy family that puts Boot to Ass wherever Oil is concerned.

[dawman]

Sidetracking a little but........
If we just wanted to remove Saddam, we already had a successful regime change model from using 100 CIA warfare experts, and 400 Delta Army Rangers.
We flew bombers from Missouri, A10 Warthogs from Diego Garcia and had a 20000+ KIA with the entire routing of 60,000 Taliban fighters.......
Why all of the tanks and troops then just to remove a few key people????.......OIL....Black Gold...............Texas Tea.....

And they loaded up the trucks and they moved the Beverly..............Hills that is............Movie Stars.........................Swimming pools.

untitled.JPG

[garyb]

I'm not cranky Gary...

I like you guys & appreciate the spirited debate. My continual prodding for solutions, was for somewone to actually admit...that sometimes, in order to achieve a goal, like the overthrowing of leaders (I use that term loosely) in Iran...it might be necessary to deploy....oh yeah...a conspircy! Once in a while, the ends would justify the means.

BTW...there are alot of differnt solutions...I would be in favor of several different ones...covert, propaganda, even black ops...at this point...I just would like to see the Iranian theocracy dissolved. It is a clear and unwavering position I take on this one. I agree that the slanted media, offers no real truth either. Information in reality, works best. And the debate goes on....

no it's better to leave them with the gangsters that they know, than to just give them new gangsters to get used to. if it was possible to actually help them, then sure, help them. the thing is, the regular folk are still gonna take it in the crotch, poor people in the west live in disgusting circumstance. maybe THEY'LL clean out their own trash, and set an example for us. one thing's sure, if we go in with military, the big corps that run the country right now will take off the women's veils, make the cute ones into prostitutes, announce what awesome freedoms everyone now has, shut down all the papers, quash all dissent with bullets and torture, wreck everyone's homes into rubble and then make the people thank them for the help. don't you think that the common man in Iraq just wishes everyone would go home? they'll go from miserable to dead.

i wish i could help them, but who's gonna help me?

[dawman]

Well I'll hook ya' up when the trucks stop rolling.
I got trout spawning grounds, pheasant & chukar, autumn months expedition for Elk and Deer through the Hope Valley area............
All the necessary guns and reloaded ammo, MRE's for 6 months.
All I need is the Solar powered generator for the DAW, XITE-1 and short wave radio.
As soon as I heard about the banks and credit troubles in Sept.'08 I started preparing.
From Long Beach all you'll need is a GPS device to find me.
I don't need the Government to drug and feed me.
Thousands will stand in lines for drug tainted food that will sicken millions, of course the Government will also have a vaccination for the cure.
Sure, I sound crazy as a Coyote, but I hunt better than them, and chance favors the prepared mind.

Also, 1000 butane lighters, and solar powered weather monitors that don't nedd the USGS for information.
I won't need this government to be my nanny, no thanks.
I only lack about 36 claymores for a full proof perimeter. I do believe my old Gold coins will buy that when the time comes.

You've heard the term " Prepared Piano " by folks like John Cage, etc.
Consider me the " Prepared Pianist."

http://www.flyfishnevada.com/walker.htm

[coc999]

I have switched on official Russian news network RIA , sometimes a bit opposite of what we hear at west of the berlin wall.
http://en.rian.ru/

and

http://www.voltairenet.org/en

enough to understand what is going on ...