Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3:16:2 - anyone used these desks?

[Shroomz~>]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone here has used or have experience with the Allen & Heath MixWizard desks. I'm looking at the WZ3:16:2. I've read elsewhere that these MixWizards are excellent little desks that have really good quality mic pres & EQs and the pres stand up very nicely against much more expensive dedicated mic pres. So, I was thinking that this might be a good 'bang for buck' option for sharc & I to add a load of mic pres & nice sounding analogue EQs to our set up.

What do you think guys?

Mark

[nightscope]

What do you think guys?

I know nothing.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov04/a ... athwz3.htm

ns

[dawman]

They have some of those in smaller venues around town and they sound really good, and have no audible insertion loss when hardware effects get routed into it.
Most of the smaller venues use the Mackie VLZ's which are good too, but Allen & Heath has much better mic pre's if that's the model I think it is.
They are usually A/B'd against the Crest mixers which are also Top Shelf.
If the price is right, I'd snag it.

[Shroomz~>]

Thanks guys. I was thinking that we could replace one of our Yamaha digital mixers with one of these & an A16u this year, which would give us quite a few benefits both in the studio & for live use. In the studio, we'd have better AD conversion in the A16u than we have in the Yamaha & using the direct outs on the A&H desk, we'd also have 16 good quality channel strips to feed the A16u with. Obviously, the inserts would mean we could easily insert analogue comps or gates if we wanted as well. I'm thinking it might well be worth it overall. Even although it'll cost us more than we'll get for the digital desk, it seems like it would be a significant upgrade.

[darkrezin]

The A+H stuff is definitely in a better league than Mackie/Soundcraft etc. Very decent desks for the money.

[garyb]

The A+H stuff is definitely in a better league than Mackie/Soundcraft etc. Very decent desks for the money.

well, mackie anyway.

a&h and soundcraft are of equal quality and actually, both are owned by harmon international....

[astroman]

then I'd right forget about it...

A&H have been aquired by D&M Holdings in 2008. Couldn't find any reference to Harman, so not all is lost...

[greenbluegold]

I use the 14:4:2.

It's strengths are its compact footprint and routing options. The pre's are decent and I find them very suitable for electronic sounds, but they are noticeably squishier (I presume from poorer transient response and phase distortions) than my syteks.
The auxillary send setup is nice 6 of them, and they can be switched from the front between pre and post fader, in two sets.

I would suggest you give a good think as to whether you may prefer the 14:4:2 to the 16:2. For a few hundred more you get far more flexible routing, and when everything is added up, I believe you get even more inputs with the 14:4:2.
There are two sets of inputs for each stereo channel so you can hook up four stereo synths on two channels -- the stereo inputs have a weaker eq section than the mono channels and less gain, but are fine for anything with decent output.
Your only loss compared to the 16 are the built in effects which I can't imagine you'd need and 6 more mono channels.

The soundcrafts may be on par and those were the other mixers I was considering at the time, but I definitely preferred the design of the 14:4:2 over the the approach of the soundcraft. Preamps and eqs are probably fairly equivalent, but I've never done a close comparison.

What else of note... they're quiet. 2 sweepable mids on the mono channel and the eq sound is pretty decent.

I doubt you'd regret a mixwizard, but I really do recommend the 14:4:2. If you outgrow it's use as studio mixer, it still makes a really nice mid size live desk much more so than the 16. The matrix mixer is cool, and very useful for monitoring.

[spacef]

I had a soundcraft (spirit 12.2) and have been able to compare it to the A&H Wizard (this exact one on the picture).
I couldn't test the pre, but the equalizer on the AH was way better, especially in the bass (but compared to the soundcraft i had, the Wizard was approximately twice the price if i remember well).
That was long ago, more than 10 years ago may be....

[voidar]

If you can acquire a cheap/used Midas Venice, you should go for that.

[chriskorff]

For my money (and if you don't mind the increased size), I'd go for a second-hand project desk, like a GS3 or possibly a Topaz (though I have no personal experience with the Topaz).

How much are you looking to spend?

[garyb]

then I'd right forget about it...

A&H have been aquired by D&M Holdings in 2008. Couldn't find any reference to Harman, so not all is lost...

hmmm, bought up again huh? this time by Denon...

it's been about 10 or 15 years since Soundcraft and Allen and Heath were ay the top of the game...anyway, models in the same price range are all of equal good quality. it comes down to features and style as to which would serve you best. i might look at older consoles. once again, you need to find a desk that has features you like, but an old Ramsa or Sound Workshops broadcast desk(or even some of the older Soundcraft or A+H studio mixers) might be a much higher quality mixer for half the money...

[chriskorff]

Quite so.

(BTW, A&H actually bought *themselves* out of Harman and became an independent company again, before the got bought up by D&M... but not before they developed the Seck desks, which basically became the Spirit mixers.)

Interesting side-note: No one really knows who Mr Allen or Mr Heath were - the original Allen & Heath Company made industrial bearings, but when they went bust, their business name/business status was sold 'off the shelf' (as is nowadays common in the UK) to a half-Irish, half-Polish chap, and it was he who actually made the desks and ran the company originally - Andy Bereza, I believe).

Also, it seems that Soundcraft and A&H (as they are now) are very much chasing the same market these days: the medium/large-scale live sound market - with their iLive and Vi/Si ranges (respectively).

Cheers!

Chris

[Shroomz~>]

I use the 14:4:2.

Thanks for all the info mate, really helpful. Is it a WZ3 (3rd gen) model that you use?

[Shroomz~>]

For my money (and if you don't mind the increased size), I'd go for a second-hand project desk, like a GS3 or possibly a Topaz (though I have no personal experience with the Topaz).

How much are you looking to spend?

Not really sure what the budget's going to be yet, because we might still keep the digital desks we have, so that would bring the budget down. Being a tight-fisted Scot, I guess I'll be looking for a bargain.

[Shroomz~>]

i might look at older consoles. once again, you need to find a desk that has features you like, but an old Ramsa or Sound Workshops broadcast desk(or even some of the older Soundcraft or A+H studio mixers) might be a much higher quality mixer for half the money...

Yeah, I've been looking into older desks. There's a Sountracs 16:8:16 made in the 80's for sale in Glasgow, but I can't find that much info on that desk & don't know if it's worth buying or worth the £250 - £300 asking price.

Definitely interested in the option of getting a more vintage desk with some colour in the sound.

[garyb]

i got my Soundcraft 1600(24 track version), a model of desk that made real records(James Taylor, Keith Richards, Scotty Moore, the Band, Taj Mahal, Orleans, Michael Franks, Rory Block, Bela Fleck, Dave Brubeck, Los Lobos, Tom Petty) and has real pres along with a full tt patchbay, for 2 beat-up Dx-7s. old consoles are cool...

if you are "thrifty" you can really get a good deal with an older console, they've devalued so badly in the digital world. you may need to be just a bit of an engineer, since an older console will have at least a few maintanence issues, but even if you pay a tech, you'll still be able to find a bargain over the cookie cutter choices available in any moderate price range.

[garyb]

here's an ad for a 1600 in Ireland. they only want 500pounds...
http://www.soundonsound.com/readersads/ ... =502645410

i can't believe that in the UK, the land of great desks, that you can't find a cheap, good one.

[astroman]

the Yamaha PM 1000 is discussed controversly in Gearslutz, but for sure seems to provide 'color'
said to be heavy as lead, and often sold by the channel
at least the full manual is online - and those papers really deserved the label
there's a lot of room inside and it's easy to mod

cheers, Tom
you're an invaluable source for expressions - just added tight-fisted to my private vocab
tnx

[Shroomz~>]

Thanks Gary, yep, I'm swaying towards an older desk, the more I look into it. I'm wondering though, what's the story with getting things like replacement faders/sliders, pots & bulbs for the meterbridge VUs on these older desks? I guess it'll depend on the make, model & rarity.