the third wave
Re: the third wave
I for one and sick and tired of having to make a bunch of compromises to please the inbreds. Local government is often controlled by hicks and then they make all these demands on the Fed. Wah I want my guns. Wah I need to kill something! It's holding back progress.
Re: the third wave
the inbreds are the nobles you prefer. why do royals only marry other royals when inbreeding is the only possible result?
humanity has spent too much time pleasing those inbreds, i agree.
most people are pretty cool. if you were a little more freindly, perhaps you might notice that.
humanity has spent too much time pleasing those inbreds, i agree.
most people are pretty cool. if you were a little more freindly, perhaps you might notice that.
Re: the third wave
Hi,
"During presidential elections we don't actually vote for president, rather we vote for who our state will vote for. Once there are enough votes in your state, your vote no longer counts! There is also the problem that less populated states have way more power than they deserve. States rights lead to unequal education and a hodgepodge of laws that can vary widely from state to state. There is duplication of government agencies which is expensive and annoying. Each state has it's own motor vehicle administration for instance and they don't talk to each other. When you move you have to go back and forth getting documents from one to show the other. They won't do it for you. We can't have a national driver's license?"
That's somes results we could expect from the lisbon's treaty
But now about traditions; Historically, there is recurrent way to solve economic crisis in Europe : War! At least this is no more the way can go here.
Technically, the state result from the social contract between individuals sharing a common purpose. This contract: the constitution, define the legitimity of the state ... and the law.
cheers
"During presidential elections we don't actually vote for president, rather we vote for who our state will vote for. Once there are enough votes in your state, your vote no longer counts! There is also the problem that less populated states have way more power than they deserve. States rights lead to unequal education and a hodgepodge of laws that can vary widely from state to state. There is duplication of government agencies which is expensive and annoying. Each state has it's own motor vehicle administration for instance and they don't talk to each other. When you move you have to go back and forth getting documents from one to show the other. They won't do it for you. We can't have a national driver's license?"
That's somes results we could expect from the lisbon's treaty
But now about traditions; Historically, there is recurrent way to solve economic crisis in Europe : War! At least this is no more the way can go here.
Technically, the state result from the social contract between individuals sharing a common purpose. This contract: the constitution, define the legitimity of the state ... and the law.
cheers
Re: the third wave
Gary,
Most people are friendly. That doesn't mean you can trust them. They're friendly to you face but when you turn your back, they will screw you over in any way they can to get ahead. If you consider humans to be a part of the animal kingdom, it's perfectly natural and nothing to be hateful about but supposedly, we have morals. In your lifetime, you can expect that people will try to rip you off financially and steal your wife (maybe both at the same time) and they will not feel guilty about it. It might even be someone you thought was your best friend. Those are the worst ones. Fortunately I have not had any physical violence happen to me, but robbery yes, attempted car theft, vandalism, the usual stuff.
Note: I haven't lived outside the United States. People could be much nicer elsewhere for all I know.
Most people are friendly. That doesn't mean you can trust them. They're friendly to you face but when you turn your back, they will screw you over in any way they can to get ahead. If you consider humans to be a part of the animal kingdom, it's perfectly natural and nothing to be hateful about but supposedly, we have morals. In your lifetime, you can expect that people will try to rip you off financially and steal your wife (maybe both at the same time) and they will not feel guilty about it. It might even be someone you thought was your best friend. Those are the worst ones. Fortunately I have not had any physical violence happen to me, but robbery yes, attempted car theft, vandalism, the usual stuff.
Note: I haven't lived outside the United States. People could be much nicer elsewhere for all I know.
Re: the third wave
Hi Stardust,
Nothing personnal nor agressive (thanks to you for being a nice and well tempered man!), as I particularly appreciate being able to discuss politicals facts with others peoples without having the thread going havoc.
I would like to quote somes of your thought yet.
<<My children grow up in a privileged part of the world.>>
Which ever way we think to it, if we are priviledged, it's to the expense of some other peoples from another part of the planet.
<<I hope I can make them aware of the responsibility they have for thebiosphere without frightening them to death or traumatizing them to naysaying agony.>>
Agree, but I learn mine, their responsabilities with what happens to other human species too ... and this is f$%g more difficult. Just an example:
In the 90's a domestic cat in our countries have a bigger economical power than some childs in developping countries. Feeding cats have made shortage of nutriments for childs as cultivators have changed what they cultivate for the benefits of cats!
I had to explain my children why there would be no domestic animals in my house .... F$£%g less easy than to ignore the facts!
<<I like Tau's active proposals that go beyond the satanic vison of being just caught in the fate of the species.>>
Tau own's discussion, saying it doesn't have a clue to what the lisbon treaty is about, make me think that the enpowered ones can continue to behave the way they do! They don't have to care for you if you don't care yourself.
History have learn me that people at charge, never leave the power without fighting. It is even such a strong point, that some politicals (PASQUA in France) wanted to reduce the History in the education for example.
<<I dont like the small minded bridging telling me that every thought about the need that this species called homo sapiens needs to get a group consciousness about their role in biosphere.
This consciousness is NOT necessarily doomed to be indoctrinated by the evil elites.>>
Yes you can be aware of it by yourself, but it doesn't necessarily means others are short minded. Just that the more facts you're aware of, the less confortable your life is.
<<I feel responsible to what I leave to my children.>>
The biosphere is not the only things you'll leave to your children: the debt, the relation with other human species, the vision and hopes of the future are a part of the game.
Nothing personnal nor agressive (thanks to you for being a nice and well tempered man!), as I particularly appreciate being able to discuss politicals facts with others peoples without having the thread going havoc.
I would like to quote somes of your thought yet.
<<My children grow up in a privileged part of the world.>>
Which ever way we think to it, if we are priviledged, it's to the expense of some other peoples from another part of the planet.
<<I hope I can make them aware of the responsibility they have for thebiosphere without frightening them to death or traumatizing them to naysaying agony.>>
Agree, but I learn mine, their responsabilities with what happens to other human species too ... and this is f$%g more difficult. Just an example:
In the 90's a domestic cat in our countries have a bigger economical power than some childs in developping countries. Feeding cats have made shortage of nutriments for childs as cultivators have changed what they cultivate for the benefits of cats!
I had to explain my children why there would be no domestic animals in my house .... F$£%g less easy than to ignore the facts!
<<I like Tau's active proposals that go beyond the satanic vison of being just caught in the fate of the species.>>
Tau own's discussion, saying it doesn't have a clue to what the lisbon treaty is about, make me think that the enpowered ones can continue to behave the way they do! They don't have to care for you if you don't care yourself.
History have learn me that people at charge, never leave the power without fighting. It is even such a strong point, that some politicals (PASQUA in France) wanted to reduce the History in the education for example.
<<I dont like the small minded bridging telling me that every thought about the need that this species called homo sapiens needs to get a group consciousness about their role in biosphere.
This consciousness is NOT necessarily doomed to be indoctrinated by the evil elites.>>
Yes you can be aware of it by yourself, but it doesn't necessarily means others are short minded. Just that the more facts you're aware of, the less confortable your life is.
<<I feel responsible to what I leave to my children.>>
The biosphere is not the only things you'll leave to your children: the debt, the relation with other human species, the vision and hopes of the future are a part of the game.
Re: the third wave
Gary,garyb wrote:there's no way a central government can do any good for actual local humans. it can only be more effecient in it's handling of human issues. no thanks. i'm not ready to be administered by a central corporation that only values me to the extent that i can serve the collective. ptui.
what a weenie way out! oh, mr. authority, please fix everything for me! i'm too lame and stupid to care for myself or my own children!
it makes you wonder how the human race ever survived this long with such spineless, simpering fools who long for a good old dictatorship to make everything neat and orderly....
my interpretation of the informations reported by mass media makes me see the common economic and security politics as a brake for misgovernment, mismanagement and abuses at local level.
My country had to fulfil the economical obligations related to the coming of the EU currency. The administrators HAD to face the gap with the other countries. Even if some of them should had liked following to play(of course I need some English lesson) with the increasing inflation of our old currency on the international market.
Recently laws pertaining to security was formulated in way that they were crossing the border with racism and discrimination on ethnic basis, and this was challenged by other EU members.
Local govern dynamics related to a certain political orientation do run into interferences and this is absolutely not welcome for the people in charge.
As for that few I know about, the central government wasn't shining very bright and it could be easy to point the finger at their flaws with the aim of lighting nationalistic instincts inside a lot of people..
Don't you in the States are confederation of states yourself?
=ADDED= About the laws on ethnic basis, I've to say that many laws from this government seems trimmed to meet the consent of the people, and not for their effectiveness. This law might have to be extended even to Italian citizens...
Last edited by Cochise on Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: the third wave
"as to the troll thing, i still see next to nothing as a brother human being, not an enemy. he is needling me(by his own admission) and i am just responding in kind. of course, if he is my enemy, then he is trolling and stalking, etc.... 
"
Thanks for the kind words
Nah, we're not enemies, thats for sure. I know i can be a bit harsh sometimes (especially when i do the stupid mistake of going to planetz when i am shitfaced) but i know gary can handle it.
Rock on!
"Thanks for the kind words
Nah, we're not enemies, thats for sure. I know i can be a bit harsh sometimes (especially when i do the stupid mistake of going to planetz when i am shitfaced) but i know gary can handle it.
Rock on!
Re: the third wave
Hi Stardust,
Thanks for your reply,
<<My last point is about your last sentence to biosphere.
No offense but excluding humans and their society from biosphere is the first wrong step.
I allegate that also you made this mistake by reading this, your sentence.
Humans are NOT beyond or outside biosphere.
They are part of it.
So at all times my sentence includes humans and their social behavior into the biosphere.
Humans have a special reponsibility there since they are capable to destroy themselves and a good portion of biosphere since they are so clever.>>
I too think they are intertwined, but it need to be analysed in a systemic way, not from separate points of views.
I am inclined to think that things will evolve if we improve the social side of the equation first as peoples will show more willingness to solve the environmental part.
<<Dont take it personally, I even think you meant it the way that it is holistic.>>
No problem, sharing is growing. I like to discuss this, as it help to reduce my own culturaly biaised opinions.
cheers
Thanks for your reply,
<<My last point is about your last sentence to biosphere.
No offense but excluding humans and their society from biosphere is the first wrong step.
I allegate that also you made this mistake by reading this, your sentence.
Humans are NOT beyond or outside biosphere.
They are part of it.
So at all times my sentence includes humans and their social behavior into the biosphere.
Humans have a special reponsibility there since they are capable to destroy themselves and a good portion of biosphere since they are so clever.>>
I too think they are intertwined, but it need to be analysed in a systemic way, not from separate points of views.
I am inclined to think that things will evolve if we improve the social side of the equation first as peoples will show more willingness to solve the environmental part.
<<Dont take it personally, I even think you meant it the way that it is holistic.>>
No problem, sharing is growing. I like to discuss this, as it help to reduce my own culturaly biaised opinions.
cheers
Last edited by MD69 on Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: the third wave
stardust, the collective conciousness about the biosphere is here and built into us. we ARE the biosphere. we don't need extra drama and sloganeering. we don't need special carbon taxes to fix US. those are examples of how to use our own energy to make right against us. we need REAL environ-mental-ism. we just need to care about our home, it's true. normal, non-stressed-out, non traumatized humans normally do. any "higher" animal which is damaged in it's psyche from abuse due to captivity will begin to destroy it's environment. a puppy left alone for several hours locked in a room is a perfect example.
cochise, MD69 hit the nail on the head when he described how "government" is contracted from the bottom up, when the American idea of sovereignty of each human is observed and seen to be fact. in this way, systems are put together for the purposed of gridlock. in this way, no dictator local or federal can prosper because the local limits the federal and vice versa. at all levels, opposing forces which cannot cooperate legally are set against each other. the local governments form a federation and agree to follow a set of standards which the federation can enforce. the federation cannot move without the local approval. even in the USA today, the highest legal authority is the local sheriff. this is highly inneficient by design. criminals will always cry about this inneficiency because this makes it impossible to start wars, tax people or build much personal power. people have legal systems and methods to deal with local tyrants because the federation has left them the right to defend themselves, guns. this system works well for freemen, but not slaves or slave-minded. slaves and slave-minded are borken people who behave like that bad puppy when they are not being watched. this is why people look bad to braincell.
braincell, when one is treacherous at heart, one can only see treachery. we all know that there are bad people and those bad people will do bad to you, but what is holding them all back from getting you right now? most people do what they think they need to to get by, and this world is pretty vicious, but most people are or really want to be kind. most people are just trying to get along. most people are pretty cool once you get to know them even if they are big jerks on the exterior. the trick is to learn the difference between the few and the most...
cochise, MD69 hit the nail on the head when he described how "government" is contracted from the bottom up, when the American idea of sovereignty of each human is observed and seen to be fact. in this way, systems are put together for the purposed of gridlock. in this way, no dictator local or federal can prosper because the local limits the federal and vice versa. at all levels, opposing forces which cannot cooperate legally are set against each other. the local governments form a federation and agree to follow a set of standards which the federation can enforce. the federation cannot move without the local approval. even in the USA today, the highest legal authority is the local sheriff. this is highly inneficient by design. criminals will always cry about this inneficiency because this makes it impossible to start wars, tax people or build much personal power. people have legal systems and methods to deal with local tyrants because the federation has left them the right to defend themselves, guns. this system works well for freemen, but not slaves or slave-minded. slaves and slave-minded are borken people who behave like that bad puppy when they are not being watched. this is why people look bad to braincell.
braincell, when one is treacherous at heart, one can only see treachery. we all know that there are bad people and those bad people will do bad to you, but what is holding them all back from getting you right now? most people do what they think they need to to get by, and this world is pretty vicious, but most people are or really want to be kind. most people are just trying to get along. most people are pretty cool once you get to know them even if they are big jerks on the exterior. the trick is to learn the difference between the few and the most...
Re: the third wave
Hi MD!
I did say I knew nothing about the Lisbon treaty, and that is almost true. I read about it, discussed it with my friends, watched countless debates... Sure I can tell you a list of "things" that are included, and how they can be interpreted, but it's very complex, and it's being rewritten in order to circumvent all objections that countries have brought up against centralization. So it's cleverly put!
Anyway, I'll stick to my point that we are not being well informed. Heck, the PM of Ireland admitted to never even having read the treaty, and many European delegates do not know the fullness of the text. They are voting on the gist of the proposals, not the detailed papers. And the people simply are not voting, because we are not allowed, and therefore, not entitled to any explanations.
The Lisbon treaty introduces changes to each members' foreign policy, for example, so that we all have the same "friends" and "enemies".
I wish the Union was made from the bottom up, but it's going to be top down, all the way.
T
I did say I knew nothing about the Lisbon treaty, and that is almost true. I read about it, discussed it with my friends, watched countless debates... Sure I can tell you a list of "things" that are included, and how they can be interpreted, but it's very complex, and it's being rewritten in order to circumvent all objections that countries have brought up against centralization. So it's cleverly put!
Anyway, I'll stick to my point that we are not being well informed. Heck, the PM of Ireland admitted to never even having read the treaty, and many European delegates do not know the fullness of the text. They are voting on the gist of the proposals, not the detailed papers. And the people simply are not voting, because we are not allowed, and therefore, not entitled to any explanations.
The Lisbon treaty introduces changes to each members' foreign policy, for example, so that we all have the same "friends" and "enemies".
I wish the Union was made from the bottom up, but it's going to be top down, all the way.
T
Re: the third wave
Sorry,
add to edit the last sentence of my previous message as could be misleading!
cheers
add to edit the last sentence of my previous message as could be misleading!
cheers
Re: the third wave
Hi,
<<I did say I knew nothing about the Lisbon treaty, and that is almost true. I read about it, discussed it with my friends, watched countless debates... Sure I can tell you a list of "things" that are included, and how they can be interpreted, but it's very complex, and it's being rewritten in order to circumvent all objections that countries have brought up against centralization. So it's cleverly put!>>
Yep,, took me a week of cut and paste to rebuild the document!
Such a technocratic technique to confuse the reader is in itself a confession for manipulating people opinion.
<<Anyway, I'll stick to my point that we are not being well informed. Heck, the PM of Ireland admitted to never even having read the treaty, and many European delegates do not know the fullness of the text. They are voting on the gist of the proposals, not the detailed papers. And the people simply are not voting, because we are not allowed, and therefore, not entitled to any explanations.>>
<<The Lisbon treaty introduces changes to each members' foreign policy, for example, so that we all have the same "friends" and "enemies". >>
It was already in the EU constitution, with a minister of foreign affairs, diplomatic delegations under E.U. autorities...
<<I did say I knew nothing about the Lisbon treaty, and that is almost true. I read about it, discussed it with my friends, watched countless debates... Sure I can tell you a list of "things" that are included, and how they can be interpreted, but it's very complex, and it's being rewritten in order to circumvent all objections that countries have brought up against centralization. So it's cleverly put!>>
Yep,, took me a week of cut and paste to rebuild the document!
Such a technocratic technique to confuse the reader is in itself a confession for manipulating people opinion.
<<Anyway, I'll stick to my point that we are not being well informed. Heck, the PM of Ireland admitted to never even having read the treaty, and many European delegates do not know the fullness of the text. They are voting on the gist of the proposals, not the detailed papers. And the people simply are not voting, because we are not allowed, and therefore, not entitled to any explanations.>>
<<The Lisbon treaty introduces changes to each members' foreign policy, for example, so that we all have the same "friends" and "enemies". >>
It was already in the EU constitution, with a minister of foreign affairs, diplomatic delegations under E.U. autorities...
Re: the third wave
A little back on topic, here's a video about education:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfFP4WSKZs
This is one view, sure you can find many others. This discussion has led me to strange places The internet can still be a funny place.
But, watching the video or not, I would just like to, you know, call your attention to the point that school may not be what you think it is, and it may not be doing what you think it should. Quite frankly, I believe that home schooling could be a very sensible option to those of us with kids.
So, what do you think about home schooling? Do you think that the parent may well be worse than the teacher? Do you think it's unfair? Alienating? Do you think that it could be possible, to make the curricula available to the public, books on the internet, nationwide general exams for all students to confirm knowledge of subject...
And although we always have to deal with the economical side of this, let's try not get stuck on that for now. Maybe we could figure out ways to spend less money on our daily lives in another thread...
much peace, and happy thoughts,
T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfFP4WSKZs
This is one view, sure you can find many others. This discussion has led me to strange places
The internet can still be a funny place. But, watching the video or not, I would just like to, you know, call your attention to the point that school may not be what you think it is, and it may not be doing what you think it should. Quite frankly, I believe that home schooling could be a very sensible option to those of us with kids.
So, what do you think about home schooling? Do you think that the parent may well be worse than the teacher? Do you think it's unfair? Alienating? Do you think that it could be possible, to make the curricula available to the public, books on the internet, nationwide general exams for all students to confirm knowledge of subject...
And although we always have to deal with the economical side of this, let's try not get stuck on that for now. Maybe we could figure out ways to spend less money on our daily lives in another thread...
much peace, and happy thoughts,
T