psy-Q

[jdieks]

hey,

at work we're going to build a pro-tools HD setup, just for mixing and mastering. i'm looking for a TDM or hardware equivalant to the psy-Q, to add a little extra to the mixes.

is the psy-Q based on the SPL vitalizer? so if you get a vitalizer you can get the same or better results?

or is there any software solution also. what i use a lot on the psy-q is the first "process" knob to add depth to mixes. to me that's the most important part of the plugin, which i would like the have in the other plugin/unit also.

thanks for the help.

[eliam]

yeah it's modeled after the vitalizer, so the original should work as well, perhaps better... I don't know any alternative, not exactly... I like psyQ but I tend to use it only on background elements that I want to cut through the mix. When I put it on something more upfront in my mixes, I kind of like it at first but it becomes irritating and I end up removing it, it tends to make things shrill and sibilant... That's just my unrequested opinion...

[jdieks]

i normally put it on the final mix. i've noticed that if you make a mix where everything is just a little bit too full in the end. and you put the psy-q on it, with all the settings down exept for the process knob, which i set to 10 or so it really opens up the mix. all the other effects just degrade a good mix most of the time.

but the process knob is really usefull imo.

thanks for the help

[garyb]

a scope box and an AD/DA is a multi i/o effects box. why do you need a vitalizer when you can still use psyq?

[jdieks]

to be honest i've never looked at it this way, but you're right.

allthough i doublt it my boss wants to put in an extra box with a pci card that's 10 years old.. as it's not really pro looking

and buying the x-cite for the psy-q is a little bit much

[garyb]

wouldn't he use a 10 year old vitalizer?

customers only see the screen, it would look very pro. even better, it would sound pro. there are a lot of other useful devices that you'd have as well in the bargain. they still make and sell the cards...

[jdieks]

well, i'm defenitly going to talk to him about this yeah... having the optimaster is very time saving with the wizard function also.. so that would be a + too..

thanks for the advice.

[garyb]

sure

you know, it's a dsp chip that makes the vitalizer and most other modern hardware work...

[jdieks]

well, as far as the vitalizer goes, i would go for the tube version... not that master version with seperate left and right, but the simpler tuber version.

i don't think there are any dsps in there. which would be a plus too, because this setup would be made to mix other's peoples tracks, done in live, cubase and logic, but all digital for the most part.

so to be able to give it just a little bit of real analog taste would be something to go for a real vitalizer still..

but we need to look at all the options

[Immanuel]

i don't think there are any dsps in there. which would be a plus too, because this setup would be made to mix other's peoples tracks, done in live, cubase and logic, but all digital for the most part.

so to be able to give it just a little bit of real analog taste would be something to go for a real vitalizer still..

Do you considder 'analog' to be an important buzz word? I am just asking, because from here the word looks to be so important for you, that it may bias your opinion above listening.

I am sometimes amazed and a bit confused, when people crave for 'analog'. Analog is not good. Analog might be good. Analog is good sometimes. It depends on what analog it is. Hey, Buhringer is analog too. There even is a 2 unit Buhringer piece, which is made for your purpose. Or lets say, it is made to earn cash on people who wants 'analog' and 'tube'. Analog and tube (and a lot of other words) are just words, which in and by themselves say absolutely nothing.

You even get 'analog', if you just run the signal in and out of your AD/DA.

[jdieks]

anolog sounding = analog sounding... i've got an alesis andromeda in my own setup and no softsynth i've tried to date can get the punch and the grittyness i can get out of that one. same with a couple of other synths i use.

anolog, to me, equels more punch and nicer highs.

in my own setup i tend to send a lot of audio tracks to analog outboard eqs to get some more livelyness and grittyness in there (by overdriving the eqs) that i don't get from any modeled eq plugins. even if those plugins sound really nice, for some reason they never build in what happends when you overdrive a good analog eq.

compare the audiorealism bassline with a real 303 and you know EXACTLY what i mean. the audiorealism one sounds like a 303... the newer versions even have the bass response of a 303, but they're just dead..

like a zombie... looks like the man he used to be... only he's dead now

this sound is very importand to me, but the downside is that you can't save a preset on an analog eq, or a vitalizer for that matter. so when working on the next track, you can't load the last one to correct an error you've made. so when having to work fast and on many tracks, having a vitalizer like plugin which i CAN save is really important.

so i guess i'm going to let my boss go for the seperate scope box. the only downside that that would have is that you can't bounce a track offline that way. which would be faster.

[garyb]

if you were using other outboard, you can't offline bounce anyway.

one more thing to encourage you...the Scope card and it's stock effects were the plugin effects board for the fabulously expensive Fairlight Dream System Constellation...

[dawman]

I mix outboard analog synths into Scope Projects where the real analog circuitry, which is the sound I think you are trying to describe, is enhanced further by the great sound and algo's of DSP effects. I still prefer hardware reverbs also, but use the AES / EBU connectors for retaining the clarity of the digital image it creates.

The Andromeds A6 is a great synth, but DSP based also. It is analog because of the I/O's not real analog circuitry.

You should hear all of the ideas that you are considering inside of a Scope Project. Once you do that, you'll find that bringing in external hardware synths and effects is greatly enhanced.

I prefer the best of both worlds, a hybrid approach. If the hardware effects you speak of had digital I/O's and " Tubes ", they would be a sound approach indeed.

But many devices and some of them free, are very capable of adding saturation and warmth.

SpaceF's FAT I & II's, Musurgio's Tube Taper, and several other devices are much more editable and fun than adding analog I/O's from a hardware effects unit.

I actually tried Oberheim Echplex's, Spring Reverbs, etc. Thier analog I/O's actually sound like crap. I get much better results using those in a live context as their I/O's are hot, and sound better outside of the box. Even the Creamware ASB B4000 sounds better routed externally to my rotary cabinet. I had the software B2003's output to the rotary cabinet before, and definately prefer the B4000's analog I/O's better.

But then again, that quality is lost when re routed into a DAW using analog I/O's.

I think that only real analog hardware synths w/ analog I/O's benefit the inside of the box approach.

I have sold most of my analog synths w/ the exception of my monosynths. Reason being that the extreme low end and sound of an analog filter in that particular range has not been emulated precisely yet. But as far as analog performance emulations, JBowen has nailed it.

That won't be heard until version 5 is released, but I have had the pleasure of playing the BETA, and that Dog Will Hunt.

The low end monosynth sound I speak of is the only feature left to tackle IMHO. I have used analog hardware for years, and trust me, I only part with 'em when I KNOW it is replacable via DSP. VST synths can never come close to that no matter how many Core's a developer uses. It will require massive power, and DSP from what I can see, will be able to do this eventually.

If I were you I'd never sell your A6 though. They are awesome no matter what way it's recorded. But you might like the new hardware Solaris. Check it out.

[jdieks]

the new pro-tools hd setup will be another setup then my own setup...

but you've made your point... but off the record... the first generation scope plugins arn't THAT good.. even in 98 they weren't. the choruses and flangers sound pretty harsh etc

it's only the second generation plugins that made the scope system a pro sounding system IMO. (like the psy-q, vinco and optimaster.. and the later synths)

[garyb]

sure, and some of the 3rd party stuff(DAS, Brainworx, Celmo, SpaceF, Wolf and others) are even better than(or at least as good as) those second gen plugins you like...definitely they are worthy of sitting alongside the best of PTHD.

i'll stop preaching to the choir now....

[jdieks]

The Andromeds A6 is a great synth, but DSP based also. It is analog because of the I/O's not real analog circuitry.

this is untrue... the only digital part in the andromeda is the OS, the presets (part of the OS really) and the routing matrix.

the oscilators and filters are 100% analog. and the build in distortion unit is 100% analog also. unlike the build in effect unit.

it's much like the new minimoog discovery or the david smith instruments (which are both on my whishlist still O

[siriusbliss]

sure

you know, it's a dsp chip that makes the vitalizer and most other modern hardware work...

yeah, it's an illusion these days to think that having yet another external box just to look (or sound) professional will be the proper way to go.
Can you use multiple instances of PsyQ with an external box? I think not.

I love PsyQ, and use it alot on my master channel, and usually just dial it in slightly to open up the overall mix.

It DOES run on older Scope cards that can still be purchased cheap, and you'd still get all the additional routing of the Scope environement.

Greg

[Fluxpod]

The vitaliser is not dsp based either.....its just a clever analog circuit,with or without tube.

[garyb]

it's my understanding that the vitalizer circuit is related to the BBE process. if so, it DEFINITELY uses a dsp. the crossovers and compression circuit may or may not be dsp based, but that's not the only thing happening, afaik...

if i'm wrong, that's ok too. it doesn't change the arguement.

[garyb]

The Andromeds A6 is a great synth, but DSP based also. It is analog because of the I/O's not real analog circuitry.

this is untrue... the only digital part in the andromeda is the OS, the presets (part of the OS really) and the routing matrix.

the oscilators and filters are 100% analog. and the build in distortion unit is 100% analog also. unlike the build in effect unit.

Exactly so. the audio signal path is true analog.
The DSP is for midi processing and the (optional) Effects.

i think you'd be surprised just how much the dsp is doing, even if it's just effects and control over an "analog" oscillator and filter....