Hi,
Sorry but this thread stink!
I wonder if people buying second hand cars are asking rebate price for their spare parts.
They should be happy they got these cards at such a bargain price nowadays!
The update cost is about 15% of the initial price of a pulsar 1 card...not that much.
If they don't value their cards enough, they can use the onboard audio with asio4all .... free.
This "I want everything free ... except my wages" selfish attitude is boring.
cheers
SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?
@Piddi: to be honest, as already mentioned earlier by someone, the majority of users already has 4.5, so there are just a few (like me) left who already have tons of plugins or a working system they wouldn't change anyway.
there is nothing that Vista could offer in productivity context - nothing - it's a cash cow as Apple's Leopard version of OSX.
When you browse files in the latter in regular 'mode' you may have a CPU load of 7 to 12%, if you switch on the fancy animated gimmicky thing (forgot the name) it jumps up to ...ta daa... 47%
back on topic: there is no customer group for a fully paid (those 198 Euro) upgrade, as it concerns less than 10% of the user base anyway.
A user base that prooved more than once to be not the most spontaneous bunch of dudes regarding their wallets
I understand that it's important to have Vista support for image sake, but that's about it.
if I would follow this advice ...but if you remove the "return hardware" bit and switch "thousands" for "hundreds" in your former post, hey presto, you got it just right.
that would be plain wrong
Digidesign clearly says: trade in, trash, or use what you have and don't annoy us
if I would cutoff a digit then the figures wouldn't be pro anymore.
not for Digidesign, not for SonicCore, not for any customer
I mean if I like a good bass sound, a regular Musicman or Fender Jazzbass will be 1.5k a Sadowski probably twice that amount - many musicians play that for their pure joy.
I don't see any need for rock-bottom prices in a (quality-wise) comparable synth environment like Scope provides.
For 'professional' users Scope is a bargain anyway and beyond discussion.
cheers, Tom
there is nothing that Vista could offer in productivity context - nothing - it's a cash cow as Apple's Leopard version of OSX.
When you browse files in the latter in regular 'mode' you may have a CPU load of 7 to 12%, if you switch on the fancy animated gimmicky thing (forgot the name) it jumps up to ...ta daa... 47%
back on topic: there is no customer group for a fully paid (those 198 Euro) upgrade, as it concerns less than 10% of the user base anyway.
A user base that prooved more than once to be not the most spontaneous bunch of dudes regarding their wallets
I understand that it's important to have Vista support for image sake, but that's about it.
if I would follow this advice ...but if you remove the "return hardware" bit and switch "thousands" for "hundreds" in your former post, hey presto, you got it just right.
that would be plain wrong
Digidesign clearly says: trade in, trash, or use what you have and don't annoy us
if I would cutoff a digit then the figures wouldn't be pro anymore.
not for Digidesign, not for SonicCore, not for any customer
I mean if I like a good bass sound, a regular Musicman or Fender Jazzbass will be 1.5k a Sadowski probably twice that amount - many musicians play that for their pure joy.
I don't see any need for rock-bottom prices in a (quality-wise) comparable synth environment like Scope provides.
For 'professional' users Scope is a bargain anyway and beyond discussion.
cheers, Tom
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nightscope
- Posts: 686
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- Location: UK
Who to? 500 lemmings?reflex wrote:Let's assume that Sonic Core manages to sell 500 Vista upgrades at €198.
edit:- Tom said it all above by the time I posted this.
Last edited by Shroomz~> on Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nightscope
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:24 pm
- Location: UK
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nightscope
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:24 pm
- Location: UK
Woah!! Never knew they made any.astroman wrote:the cheezy casio guitar
A search reveals Stanley Jordan used one.
" To this day, the Casio PG380 is the only MIDI guitar I know of with a built-in synth that runs on batteries! - Stan J"
http://www.stanleyjordan.com/Tools/epip ... html#Casio
Stanley plays a couple of others
:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-Ens
PS Sorry, mildly off topic.
Man this thread is depressing 
A lot of you will jump on me for saying this, but fuck it I'm gonna say it anyway.
Ever since I bought into the Scope system (can't remember how long ago it was, maybe 6 years?), I've seen a certain type of whining about the platform.
When I first joined people seemed to resent CW making commercial plugins and selling them for a price that reflected their quality. There was very much an undercurrent of "I gave you £800 for my card, but now you owe me for life".
Then the focus seemed to be on why no 'big name' 3rd parties were involved - but these complaints never took into account what kind of prices these kind of 'name-brand' plugins would cost... see Pro Tools plugin prices for some examples. At the same time, they ignored the quality and exclusivity of the Scope-only plugins. The sales figures prove it unfortunately
Similar things happened with transfer fees, Scope 4.5 (or whatever it was), etc. Sorry but it all boils down to "why can't I have it for free". No offence but to me it's the same as a kid who can't have his pocket money this week.
When CW first made this technology, they wanted to give people flexible real-time programmable DSP technology at a fraction of the cost of Pro Tools TDM. When you compare the cost of something like PT - expensive cards; expensive, compulsory, average-sounding i/o; expensive, paid, poor tech support - the CW stuff was a bargain from day 1, especially considering it can aso do dynamic DSP allocation across chips... yes this comes at the expense of phase accuracy but there are ways around this for devices that need it. PT's success is ironically because of its editing software rather than the DSPs... it's a real shame CW didn't sustain and keep developing tripledat as a competitive alternative.
After all the whining, it really doesn't surprise me why some companies charge astronomical prices purely to avoid the consumer/semi-pro 'give it to me free or very very cheap' mentality, going instead for a pro market that doesn't mind paying for support of its tools because they appreciate the fact that the tool lets them get work done. It certainly seems more beneficial to do this from a business point of view, when the product is as complex and high-quality as Scope or PT. It's ultimately too expensive and too much hassle to integrate for the native crew so I think it's pointless and detrimental trying to attract this market.
All I would say is think about the cost of the upgrade and whether you need it. Then think about how long you have to work to pay for it. Figure out if the expense of a couple of days work, with maybe 1 or 2 weeks of being careful with your spending, justifies being able to use your cards on a brand new OS. Then either pay for the upgrade, keep using what you have or sell the cards and move on.
A lot of you will jump on me for saying this, but fuck it I'm gonna say it anyway.
Ever since I bought into the Scope system (can't remember how long ago it was, maybe 6 years?), I've seen a certain type of whining about the platform.
When I first joined people seemed to resent CW making commercial plugins and selling them for a price that reflected their quality. There was very much an undercurrent of "I gave you £800 for my card, but now you owe me for life".
Then the focus seemed to be on why no 'big name' 3rd parties were involved - but these complaints never took into account what kind of prices these kind of 'name-brand' plugins would cost... see Pro Tools plugin prices for some examples. At the same time, they ignored the quality and exclusivity of the Scope-only plugins. The sales figures prove it unfortunately
Similar things happened with transfer fees, Scope 4.5 (or whatever it was), etc. Sorry but it all boils down to "why can't I have it for free". No offence but to me it's the same as a kid who can't have his pocket money this week.
When CW first made this technology, they wanted to give people flexible real-time programmable DSP technology at a fraction of the cost of Pro Tools TDM. When you compare the cost of something like PT - expensive cards; expensive, compulsory, average-sounding i/o; expensive, paid, poor tech support - the CW stuff was a bargain from day 1, especially considering it can aso do dynamic DSP allocation across chips... yes this comes at the expense of phase accuracy but there are ways around this for devices that need it. PT's success is ironically because of its editing software rather than the DSPs... it's a real shame CW didn't sustain and keep developing tripledat as a competitive alternative.
After all the whining, it really doesn't surprise me why some companies charge astronomical prices purely to avoid the consumer/semi-pro 'give it to me free or very very cheap' mentality, going instead for a pro market that doesn't mind paying for support of its tools because they appreciate the fact that the tool lets them get work done. It certainly seems more beneficial to do this from a business point of view, when the product is as complex and high-quality as Scope or PT. It's ultimately too expensive and too much hassle to integrate for the native crew so I think it's pointless and detrimental trying to attract this market.
All I would say is think about the cost of the upgrade and whether you need it. Then think about how long you have to work to pay for it. Figure out if the expense of a couple of days work, with maybe 1 or 2 weeks of being careful with your spending, justifies being able to use your cards on a brand new OS. Then either pay for the upgrade, keep using what you have or sell the cards and move on.
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next to nothing
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Bergen, Norway
ello again
totally agree on the "cut off a digit bit". I was off.
I also agree that vista shouldnt be bear any DAW for any reason for the time being. I use a totally stripped down version of XP myself on my DAW, and have no plans to go vista (allthough thats whats running on my main PC, im a sucker for DX10).
You can look at it from whatever angle you want, i still dont see any reason why there shouldnt be one price, say 100 euro, for basic Vista compability, while another 98 (matching the current 198) would bring you extra devices. How can you argue this would generate less revenue for SC, regardless of how uneffective vista is? as i, and you said, most of us allready upgraded to 4.5, so for us its not an issue. its an issue for SC though, they need to get revenue from somewhere. And they will probably push more people away from the platform than keeping them here with the steep price of 198-or-nothing.
I cant see anyone who didnt upgrade to 4.5 pay 198 to go for scope 5. Thats it.
totally agree on the "cut off a digit bit". I was off.
I also agree that vista shouldnt be bear any DAW for any reason for the time being. I use a totally stripped down version of XP myself on my DAW, and have no plans to go vista (allthough thats whats running on my main PC, im a sucker for DX10).
You can look at it from whatever angle you want, i still dont see any reason why there shouldnt be one price, say 100 euro, for basic Vista compability, while another 98 (matching the current 198) would bring you extra devices. How can you argue this would generate less revenue for SC, regardless of how uneffective vista is? as i, and you said, most of us allready upgraded to 4.5, so for us its not an issue. its an issue for SC though, they need to get revenue from somewhere. And they will probably push more people away from the platform than keeping them here with the steep price of 198-or-nothing.
I cant see anyone who didnt upgrade to 4.5 pay 198 to go for scope 5. Thats it.
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next to nothing
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Bergen, Norway
piddi - maybe so... time will tell. As I said, if v5 had something comparable that I wanted (OSX with Magma support) I'd definitely pay for it. But obviously I can only speak for myself.
edit: (this reply was meant in response to your previous post)
My comment about the whining was not addressed to you, and to no-one else really in particular (I'm not going to go searching the archives... )
edit: (this reply was meant in response to your previous post)
My comment about the whining was not addressed to you, and to no-one else really in particular (I'm not going to go searching the archives...
)
why should he? he's actually the tech support division, not sales. don't expect ralf to argue with anybody on prices. that's not his matter (and a waste of time to try).cyberzip wrote:UPDATE
My discussion with Ralf / SC came to an end and he didn't move an inch.
as astro? said...
there are lots of users that already upgraded to 4.5.
would be a nice poll to get some figures how many people
- want to move to vista, have already 4.5 and get 5.0 free
- don't want vista, but have 4.5
- don't want vista and don't have 4.5, and don't want or need it
and then those who actually
- want to have or have vista and don't have 4.5
and how many of them are indeed not willing to pay the upgrade.
I don't expect to big numbers here, btw, which renders a different procedure form SC's point of view useless. IMHO, of course. feel free to think different.
-greetings markus-
ps. volunteers for the poll, anyone?
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I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
Moving to Vista isnt a smart move for DAW well I mean its TOO soon
music is always a little step "behind" technology
on mac os X its the same song if you go for LEO then you lose hundreds of plugins
I understand Vista manages more than 3 gigas memory works in 64 bits OK but
sometimes we have to know what we want : make music and compose and create and produce or make Mecchanics and have the nose stuck in the motor JUST as when you own a "classy" old english cars
For the Update Thing I understand also That soniccore wants money For the update but As a real early FOLLOWER and early FAN of The Scope and creamware you have to pay MORE ?
I dont know if you remember the price of a Pulsar II + in the first years ?
(Pulsar II is scheduled for release in May 2000 with software for Windows and Mac, at an anticipated suggested retail price of US$ 1398,-.)
THANX harmony central for europe the price was higher
that was just the question I asked to myself and That I shared with you ... nothing more
And the same happen with some other hardware too LOOK at protools
Damn those converters 882 now cost 50 euros I just can t believe it
well that were my 2(000) cts
have a great coming week
music is always a little step "behind" technology
on mac os X its the same song if you go for LEO then you lose hundreds of plugins
I understand Vista manages more than 3 gigas memory works in 64 bits OK but
sometimes we have to know what we want : make music and compose and create and produce or make Mecchanics and have the nose stuck in the motor JUST as when you own a "classy" old english cars
For the Update Thing I understand also That soniccore wants money For the update but As a real early FOLLOWER and early FAN of The Scope and creamware you have to pay MORE ?
I dont know if you remember the price of a Pulsar II + in the first years ?
(Pulsar II is scheduled for release in May 2000 with software for Windows and Mac, at an anticipated suggested retail price of US$ 1398,-.)
THANX harmony central for europe the price was higher
that was just the question I asked to myself and That I shared with you ... nothing more
And the same happen with some other hardware too LOOK at protools
Damn those converters 882 now cost 50 euros I just can t believe it
well that were my 2(000) cts
have a great coming week
I'm currently stuck in stdm hell, where i have to wiggle the stdm cables every ten minutes or so to kick start the card. also, as i've upgraded to nuendo4, i have to go through a silly process of switching sample rates every time i boot up or i can't load the asio drivers. the cards are great when they work, but i've had constant problems with them since i got my first one, about 6 years ago. the only reason i haven't made a switch to soundscape is that i'm hoping creamware will update it's asio drivers with the next update.
if they charge me for it, then i'm gone. i don't want any new software and unless they make the plugins vst compatible, they aren't any use to me.
i agree that software development takes a lot of work and that we shouldn't mind paying for it, but all i want is for my existing cards (which i've already paid a hell of a lot for) to work. that's not an apgrade, it's just maintenance and should be part of the service.
phobic
if they charge me for it, then i'm gone. i don't want any new software and unless they make the plugins vst compatible, they aren't any use to me.
i agree that software development takes a lot of work and that we shouldn't mind paying for it, but all i want is for my existing cards (which i've already paid a hell of a lot for) to work. that's not an apgrade, it's just maintenance and should be part of the service.
phobic
Pulsar2, Powersampler, Luna2496, Scope 4.5, Intel 2.6G QuadCore, 4G RAM, Nuendo 4.