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Liquid Len
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Post by Liquid Len »

Shayne White wrote: The earth is only around 6,000 years old. So the data showing weather patterns from hundreds of thousands of years ago is faulty to begin with.
Wow! So the science of evolution (with its many implications towards biology, biochemistry, geology, etc) is 100% fraud. Is the theory of electricity (remember, it's just a theory) also faulty? Good thing that the equations allow us to make microchips anyways. BTW did Adam and Eve have navels?


Shayne White wrote:stopping civilization altogether, which is the goal of the global warming theorists, is dangerous and preposterous.
Umm, something here is preposterous, alright. Do you really think people have such a malicious intent?
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

people keep replying with the ready-made rhetoric instead of just using the grey matter in their own heads. the hell with the emotional response. the FACT is:

THE LAST MINI ICE AGE WAS BETWEEN 1400 AND 1700AD(approx).

THAT'S ONLY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO. BEFORE THAT, TEMPERATURES WERE CONSIDERABLY WARMER THAN THE CURRENT TEMPERATURES.

THIS IS FACT.

most of europe in the middle ages didn't even have a hearth in the house in the middle ages because it was WARM outside.....

why do people keep talking about 10,000 years, 100,000 years when the evidence of extreme temperature variability is within the last 400?


hubird, you old smarty pants, if there isn't a ruling elite, howcome the money and resources are still in the same hands as 500years ago? here it was explained quite well in 1976. i own the club of rome documents saying that global warming will be used to institute a global government. how come all of the people telling you about this horrible situation are all royals, bankers and oil men? when actual science and real data are presented, they are ignored, why? why have people lost the ability to think for themselves and why do they trust the same folks who made all the messes to clean the messes up?

BRING ON THE WARMING!!!!!
it's too cold here anyway. this is the coldest and wettest winter in southern california in years judging by my freezing fingers.... :lol:
Immanuel
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Post by Immanuel »

piddi wrote:oh yeah, rape and pillage! :)
:lol:
Thanks, that was a good laugh!
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

all this love of global government and authority reminds me of The Prisoner, specifically the episode Chimes of Big Ben where number 2 explains that one day the whole world will be the Village.

Village denizens LOVE their keepers, or else...
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Post by hubird »

old smarty pants? :lol:

I don't deny the existence of a (old) ruling elite, just like I don't deny the existence of powerfull unions, Greenpeace, Amnesty, Poetin, or Al Quida even, etc.
It's a dynamic proces, even if the elite always hold the same clans.
The idea that the elite can do with the rest of the world what it wants whatever we do is heavily exaggerated.
Therefor the world processes are too complicated and chaotic.

Who stopped the Vietnam war?
The public, gotten wise by the medea reports.
Bush was forced to confess he lied about the existence of mass destruction weapons in Irak.
He didn't do that voluntary...

About the time scale: you also mentioned often the long term climate changes.
Yet, a scale of a few hundred years leaves enough room for tremendous changements in political sense.
At the moment we suffer from the heritage of colonialisme, but in 70 years we also made a few steps towards a more peaceful world.
How would that be then after a 400 years?

Common sense isn't the way to go anyway.
History proves that.
It's only since recent that there is a movement to the view that all humans are part of the one clan we have on the world, including with a lot of leading political forces.
That's totally new.

Could you think of a war between two nabour states of the US?
No, and the same for Europe, tho Servia didn't get it yet (Servia isn't Europe anyway yet).
The next step is to export this principle to the rest of the world.

Only wish relegion wasn't so important for the less privilaged part of the world population, meaning the Islamitic world.It's the cohesive element which binds those masses to one identity.
And the funny thing is, if they once get prosperous also, the role of religion will be forced back in life, just as it did with the most of us in modern industrial countries.
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

those in charge have thier own agenda that may not agree with yours, vis veitnam. it's a fact that the gulf of tonkin incident(that was the offical start of the war)was staged.

i do like the optimism. i do see it as genuine. powerfull unions, Greenpeace, Amnesty, Poetin, or Al Quida even serve the elite, directly or indirectly.

it's you(and me) that is being farmed.

as to religion, your religion is the state. how is that a less destructive force? the state always promises peace and safety and always delivers war and oppression..

the reason that states fight is because their elite wish it so. not because the slaves...errrr....slavs are just inferior.

hubird, i know what you like about order and i like it as well. the order is supposed to serve humans, not the other way around. there's no way that those who aren't even named but run things will ever be servants, so their order will always be a fraud and a murder.
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Post by Zer »

Do you really think, someone is in chrage of the climate and everything? Blame it on your god and it wouldn`t help, blame it on your second god mammon and it still wouldn`t help anything. So the only question is...what did you do to preserve your country?
"Heaven is there where hell is and heaven is not on earth!"
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Post by siriusbliss »

Zer wrote:Do you really think, someone is in chrage of the climate and everything? Blame it on your god and it wouldn`t help, blame it on your second god mammon and it still wouldn`t help anything. So the only question is...what did you do to preserve your country?
There sure is an effort to control weather. Also movements on buying up or controlling bodies of water.
re: what I did to preserve my country...everything I could, but I've been vastly outnumbered :-?

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garyb
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Post by garyb »

ditto.

btw zer-about weather control, yes, it exists. there are treaties covering it. but if you think i'm saying that global warming is weather control, no, i'm not saying that. weather control is local(which can mean a huge area, the earth is even more huge). warming is global. or not....definitely there are changes in weather patterns(which isn't surprising since the gulf stream has shifted, perhaps HAARP can influence that, perhaps not). the weather will change from cold to hot to cold to hot again with or without human assistance. what the Club of Rome documents say is that global warming, the idea itself could be the catalyst, since it's much easier to utilize than say the idea of spacemen(geneticly modified people) coming to earth and posing a global threat(i couldn't make this stuff up, my imagination isn't that good. i have the books from these guys). global warming would be the new boogieman.

protect my country? :lol: there's a plan to eliminate 6 billion people(United Nations Agenda for the 21st Century), and it's being made to look like gladness and helpfullness. millions and millions refuse to stop masturbating long enough to pay attention to the psycho murders public, in-your-face communications with each other because most people aren't really evil, and they can't believe that anyone else could really be evil. :lol: who's gonna save mankind?
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Post by garyb »

[for Zer]

behold Mammon-Ra!

Ordo Ab Chao

behold the Shining Eye of Lucifer
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

what part about the USA is on the same program as Europe don't you get?

global government is already in existance for many years. did you watch the clip from the movie network made in 1976, where they explain the global system? just because it hasn't been officially announced, don't think it's not in operation. this is how it's done, set up the system, explain why it's great, but the ignorant ones are trying to stop it(as though it's not in existance), get the public to beg for it, announce it's formation. if there's no global government, then how can the hague prosecute anyone? what is interpol? how can the UN, the EU or the NAU have any real authority?

globalism is the solution to nothing except for concentrating power into even fewer hands. the people pushing globalism are the same ones who pushed everything that has become a problem, every economic policy, technological choice, every war and famine, every false leader, every Bush, Alexander, Hitler, Stalin and Mao, yet they blame the common man for following their lead, often at the barrel of a gun or point of a blade. now you want to follow them into the neo-fuedalism of agenda21....6 billion gone, what a wonderfully inhumane thought.

the problem is NEVER the common man. the common man never invented mass production of automobiles, skyscrapers, plastic or nuclear waste. nerve gas and biological weapons like anthrax and AIDS did not come from the common man, neither did crack or ghettos. mutually assured distruction was not the common man's idea, nor was Eugenics. i never saw the common man pouring hundreds of thousands of gallons of old nerve gas into the atlantic ocean either. nope, all these things came from upstairs, the guys in charge. the ones that always shift the blame and stay in charge no matter what happens to humanity as a whole. blue bloods aren't untouchable, but their subjects are afraid to hold them responsible, just as for thousands of years.

during world war two the same corporations ran weapons and infrastructure production in both allied and axis countries. there were even members of pairlement, congress and hitler's inner circle on the payroll together. Rothschild banks funded BOTH sides. boy, are people gullible....

now, the blame is shifted to the common man again. the earth is hot because people are sooo greedy. noooooo, folks who have $30,000 a month personal elictric bills(al gore) are greedy and they can't change the fact that the earth WILL get hotter and colder, people or no people. what is the queen's electric bill like anyway? the super rich, super elite, royal types are the cause of it all. they are completely psychopathic and they are doing their best to make psychopathy the norm. really though, it's the abberation. it's just that the system mirrors it's makers and rewards lying, psychopathic behavior over normal, human, loving, tribal behavior(every member of the tribe is valued). that makes psychopathic behavior seem normal and common. TV, Movies and Music extoll the virtues of psychopatic heroes like ganster rappers and James Bond. sure, the common folks enjoy the entertainment, the problem is that the entertainment lends a spirit of normallacy to a truly false reality....

green is a joke. green means envious or sickly. sustainability is a word coined by the Club of Rome, and written into policy by the UN's Agenda for the Twentyfirst Century, which is a happy looking plan, but is one that promises to kill 80-90% of all humans on the planet. this is truly disgusting at a time when human populations are leveling out and the Earth is nowhere near overloaded or overburdened, just misused. WE don't need to be satisfied with less, the b@stards who think they're better and more evolved than mere human beings need to settle for less!
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Post by astroman »

good points, ...well not really that good regarding content, but worth considering anyway :roll:

cheers, Tom
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Post by coc999 »

Here in france , they did a kind of governmental ecological forum with many specialists , experts etc...to explain , debate and investigate how the society could be changed in a better way by creating what i they call ecologic economy.

One of the direct result was to make boost the car industry . Why ?
simply by the fact that if you now go to buy a ecologic engine car producing less co2 you can get your car for a cheaper price because the governement is giving you a ecologic bonus of about 1300 euros up to i think 1500 euros.

The result is more cars producing less co2 ! so by not doing any calculations the balance of co2 is the same ! car industry made a jump in production !
but the middle class continues to consume and produce co2 with free conscience.
Also as the government represent justice and equity for all , The rich guys driving 4 wheelers producing more co2 will pay in opposite 1500 to 2000 euros more ....haha they don't give a shit ! if a guy has 70000 euros to put in a range rover sport version , what means 2000 euros to them ?

by the way Tata auto in India has purchased the patent for the air engine car to a french engineer (former formula 1 engineer).
Solutions are there but higher evil greedy masters are watching there own interests :) , maybe a miracle will come from countries like india that have not too much oil and gas and that are not by their politic killing other countries to get energy.

crazy world !

Here in Nice today is a sunny day , let's go out to get some free sun power energy with my son :)

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Post by Immanuel »

I don't know where I am about all this. I believe that in the end, we human beings usually just choose our truth. I have chosen to trust that the earth is round. But it is nothing but trust. I don't expect that I will ever get to really know. There are other things, which I know about. These are things I have experienced. Some of that knowledges may be flawed too.

Anyway one more for Gary: Do you remember when Castro said that bio fuel is bad? Basically, the crops used are the ones, which poor people might have a chance to sustain life on. Thus bio fuel leads to increased starvation.
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Post by hubird »

stardust wrote:Still no word on the need to strive for sustainable coexistense on earth.

I always read about the evil elites, but nothing about the needed change especially in the US.

It seems to be easier to have someone to blame.
Someone really almighty, evil and unreachable.
That allows to continue the own agenda regardless if it is an individuum a group or a state.
still nothing heard about change...with all respect, but only the same deterministic ahistorical story.

If all people wanne buy a car than it's planned by the elite, in fact we don't wanne have cars, but we are told to buy one (or two).
Yet the man Ford just invented the moving band production system to make the cars cheaper as a mass product.
Hitler was a setup by the elite (Krupps etc.), yet he and his creation got destroyed totally after a few years.

You are reverse analysing, and you will always find the proof of the pudding (it happened like it happened, so I must be right).
Remember, I don't deny the ruling class organises itself in official and less official organisations, the opposition also does (unions, German R.A.F., Al Quida).
That's normal, as it's logical.
We just need a free press to keep the balance.
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Post by BingoTheClowno »

hubird wrote: If all people wanne buy a car than it's planned by the elite, in fact we don't wanne have cars, but we are told to buy one (or two).
I don't know about that. What I believe is that we are forced to buy cars due to urban planning that places the most important buildings in such locations that are inaccessible by foot. As a matter of fact, if you were to visit some of the suburbs in Chicago you will notice that there are no streets people can walk on, only roads for cars. If you live in the suburbs in Chicago, you have to have a car. You need it if you want to feed yourself since the grocery store is miles away from your home. You need it if you want to work because the company you work for is miles away from your home. You need it if you want to relax and entertain yourself because the bars, malls, movie teathers are mile away from your home. You need it if you want to dress yourself since the malls are miles away from your home. You need it if you want to maintain and repair your home since the Home Depot is miles away from your home. You need it if you want to take your children to school, since the schools are miles away from your home. You want to visit friends? Gues what, you have to hop in the car and drive to their house. ETC, ETC, ETC.

Basically, if you live in the suburbs you have to have a car in order to survive.
I cannot even try to imagine then what effects on human mind has this constant spending of time in a constricted space of a car. And think about it, did anybody force anyone to buy a house in the suburbs? No, it was peoples greed and ignorance. They wanted to follow the "american dream", a dream conceived by who? Did you have a dream one day that made you think, ah the suburbs are so nice I want to move there now? No.

This same pattern now is starting to appear in the city itself, the grocery stores are disapearing. I've seen 3 Dominks stores close out in the last 2 years. One of those was located very conveniently close to where I live. Now I have to walk more to get my groceries.

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Post by siriusbliss »

stardust wrote:Still no word on the need to strive for sustainable coexistense on earth.

I always read about the evil elites, but nothing about the needed change especially in the US.

It seems to be easier to have someone to blame.
Someone really almighty, evil and unreachable.

That allows to continue the own agenda regardless if it is an individuum a group or a state.
From an American who lives in a one-room house, puts out more recyclables at the side of the road than trash, and who has multiple friends working on living sustainably, I am ashamed at the greed in this country and around the world.

However, you know it's bad when Obama wants to raise MY taxes to pay for ending poverty in some foreign land, when there are 30million (or more) living below the so-called poverty line here in this country. You saw a terrible image of this during Hurricane Katrina. THAT is the reality.

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Post by garyb »

nobody is saying that one should shirk one's PERSONAL responsibility! PERISH THE THOUGHT!

i am for TAKING responsibility, which means acknowedging who has been in control and what, exactly has been happening and then begin to live our own lives instead of living to full fill the insane propagandized ideas that we've been on. our thoughts need to be free of all this unreality that is "modern life". you are already in the matrix.

there is NOT too much CO@ in the atmosphere, it IS rising, but CO2 levels have been at historic lows for several hundred years. there have been times in the past, thousands of years ago, when CO2 levels were MUCH higher(and the temperature wasn't any higher than today). this is know from many things including ice core samples. human CO2 emmissions are responsible for 0.17% of ALL greenhouse gases!(again, since they've told us to ignore data which is inconvieniently obviously indicating a fraud because or some convoluted double think quasi-scientific explanation made to people who really are quite ignorant and will believe anything official. after that it's a numbers game to convince the rest into herd response, flying in formation like a flock of birds) 95% of greenhouse gases is water vapor!

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

be ecologically sound. it's nice, it makes a nice neighborhood! it makes stupid people when it becomes a religion....

yes, of COURSE we can't really see the big picture, so everything is only speculation and so we THINK the world is round, but then anyone who takes the time can look out from a high place or across the water and see that the earth is at least on a consistent, measurable curve, which then can prove the roundness. anyone can test the theory by travelling(good luck with that! :lol: ), so some things aren't quite as subjective as in the first veiwing.
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Post by Cochise »

Exploitation of the public information: a disheartening reality for sure.
Hard to frame it in the power games sphere.
Lot of people prefer to trust, to avoid the twilight zone (this is the name I sometimes give to mental states prevailed by doubts), in strict agreement with the preconceptions and dogmas acquired with their upbringing, so tend to examine the facts from a single point of view.
Taking it for granted that the complete awareness is not human thing, knowledge ( not the passive one, but the one brought by the mental hunger, or native curiosity if you prefer) and mind opening are the only valid tools IMO. Of course they're useless without common sense, and being gifted with some popular wiseness is often a very good help.

Subtle manipulation of opposing organizations: being used to read between the lines I regard myself aware of that and agree with you Garyb, I see one strong power only. The scenario staged by mass-media is almost pure entertainment .

But the opposition does exist in the soul of lot of people all around the world. Otherwise such organizations shouldn't exist at all.
It's not really accomplished, not enough organized, but the opposition DOES exist.
And it will grow IMO. Since the number of envious is growing fed by the awareness about the life condition of the elites, broadcast in every home (in the nations with soft censorship at least, I think).
It will grow since the number of sick people this society procreates is growing.
Without scientific data in my hands I just see my generation as weaker than my father generation (Freudian Oedipus?). And the sons of my generation as some more weaker to my eyes.
Of course I can see sportmen and teams from my "hi-civilized" :D (shame on me) nation to excel all over the world making me dream on and deceive myself, but they're not the mass.
I meet the mass naked at the seaside, I see shadows under the eyes of the people I meet in the street.
It's easy that things agreeing with my thoughts stand out more to my eyes. However i tend to consider people suffering from some kind of illness like canaries in a coal mine.

Some things summed together sound just like an alarm bell.


Now, agreeing with Stardust, Hubird and others I still find it restrictive considering the environmental deterioration in terms of global warming only.

This February has been a very cold month here too. But since a couple of days we had a sudden temperature rise: 17° C is the difference between the minimum of the cold days and the maximum of of these days.
It could even be a perfectly natural event.
The world is large, yes, but considering the human activity in its multiplicity I don't feel up to say it has negligible impact on the biosphere at today. And its acceleration will rise.

It may still be restrictive to me. I can feel lot of deterioration (around me and even inside me, in part) in social/mental terms.
It's not hard to recognize similar spreading of corruption levels, looseness of morals, similar fall of the values on pages handed on by ancient historians.
Pages written during ages close to the wane of the society they belonged to.
It may sound magniloquently tragic. It may just be matter of exploitation of course.

I don't want let anything makes me numb, don't wanna let anything disheartens me to the passiveness, however.
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Post by garyb »

Immanuel,
bio-fuel is another catch phrase. i'm using waste oil. it's already been used for food. but i'm also not claiming everybody should do that(there's not that much waste oil). there are many fuel choices and many different ways to live. the ways that require autos were given to us(see picture above). they're not so great, necessarily, but we don't know any better. the thing is, so much food is wasted because of greed, and plain old meanness, that it looks like there is a shortage, but as much food is used as rots on the docks in some places, more rots than is used in others and people often starve to death in those places...for fuel, hemp is a perfect crop, lots of oil and it's a good crop to rotate with other food crops(deisel engines can burn this directly with no refining and a zero net impact on the greenhouse gases. factory and modern farming techniques grow more food than ever, but destroy the soil in a few years, proper crop rotation and allowing feilds to go fallow, while not being best for maximum profit, allow crops to grow for generation after generation, so growing hemp does not mean not growing food crops. this isn't supposed to be an ultimate solution, but just adding this stuff to diesel fuel(which is kerosene) or instead of diesel where possible, would be a good cheap way to use a lot less petroleum. refinement is not necessary, but you can do that too... shoot, a diesel-type motor with enough compression can use water for power. the point is, that if they really wanted to help us and make a responsible product and public, the could have and still can, easily. they won't because they are wicked liars. they are proving to us how unworthy of living in a Darwinian sense we are. it's some terrible Sorcery, and it's working.

Fidel works for the same boss as Goerge Bush, Putin and everyone else. i have a picture of him doing gang signs(masonic hand signs) with Jimmy Carter(Bohemian Grove attendee and Club member). also unfortunately, unions, German R.A.F., Al Quida are also funded by the same elite. no real opposition is ever allowed to exist in an organized fashion. if it organizes it is infiltrated and run and guided from within.

hubird,
if your Queen's(and the British Queen's) House of Orange has no real power, how come they own the land that the Hague occupies? the world government pays tribute to the sisters Queen, the Land Lords of the House of Orange.....

thanks for the daily rant, as always, i feel better, now... :)

and Bingo, see? we do agree about some things....
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