SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?

[Sounddesigner]

Yes, the Prodissey is probably 10x times better than the Oddity, but for a hobbyist like me, $69 USA is a great deal... and it's good enough .

Prodissey is 200 euro - around $280 US - for 100 dollars more I got the Arturia collection - good enough for me... And I could go on... my new audio interface provided the Vista drivers for free - plus it includes some DSP effects, to boot. Arturia already supports Vista, etc...

V

For the same price of prodysee you can get the SCOPE '4.5 Synths and Samplers pack' wich includes Prodysee, pro12, minimax, etc and i'm sure much more then what the Arturia bundle includes in both quality and quantity. And then you'd get Vista upgrade for free. With sufficient dsp power you can buy less powerfull computers saving money when forced to upgrade computer, and i'm sure the scope dsp cards will out live the computer anyhow so it is better investment imo, plus it can be expanded threw second-hand market at low price. There is a serious bang for the buck factor with SCOPE.

[vmartell]

if you heard the Prodyssey, but still can get along with the G-Media thing then Scope is indeed the wrong choice, I absolutely second your decision.

<snip>

Indeed a great setup - I wish I had it.

Like I mentioned before I appreciate Scope plenty, so preaching to the converted here. It's only that I feel that my new setup gives me a less expensive path to the future - maybe I am wrong. Maybe I will be back... but If I do, it would be either with the Plugiator, in short/midterm or even the PCIe version of Scope when and if it comes out - it will probably be as expensive to maintain, but, well, that should last us another good 10 years or even more; PCIe is a very future proof technology with good provisions to expand without sacrificing backward compatibility. We'll see!


Thnx for your very kind reply.

V

[soul-synthesis]

who actually uses vista for audio work? What's the benefit of vista over XP for audio stuff? I've tried vista and it's nothing ground breaking. It's like swimming with lead weights on, not needed to get the basic job done. From the computers i know - video editors, graphic designers, audio dudes and office folks, they all use XP.

I would of thought vista drivers would a medium-low priority? I rather pay someone to further develop SFP - eg. new features, better stability, improve the UI, optimise stuff, new plugins, new hardware etc. I just reckon they can better manage resources on more appropriate projects and endeaviours. If SFP5's selling point is vista drivers then GOD save them...

Did anyone actually do any market research at soniccore? *shakes head*

[vmartell]

For the same price of prodysee you can get the SCOPE '4.5 Synths and Samplers pack' wich includes Prodysee, pro12, minimax, etc and i'm sure much more then what the Arturia bundle includes in both quality and quantity. And then you'd get Vista upgrade for free.

That's the Use-Audio bundle, right? Yes it is a good deal - so much it triggered a remorse/regret episode - however, I was already committed to my decision, so had to tough it up.

But as we know they might be some problems with upward compatibility between the Use-Audio plugins and Scope 5.0, so were are back at to apprehension about the future.

I don't think this is the SonicCore deal. right? SonicCore's own shop lists the synth and sampler package at 600 euro, with only

MINIMAX DSP Plug-In
Profit-5 DSP Plug-In
B2003 DSP Plug-In
Modular III DSP Plug-In
Vectron DSP Plug-In
STS-5000 DSP Plug-In

(link)

http://www.sonic-core.net/shop/product_ ... ack-2.html

With sufficient dsp power you can buy less powerfull computers saving money when forced to upgrade computer, and i'm sure the scope dsp cards will out live the computer anyhow so it is better investment imo, plus it can be expanded threw second-hand market at low price. There is a serious bang for the buck factor with SCOPE.

You are 100% correct, Scope has outlived many computers and indeed in my setup outlived three of them... Problem is the coming move to PCIe - Heck, correct me if I am wrong, but most modern Macs don't have PCI slots, just PCIe... of course, you can keep an old box just for Scope, but that's something I did not wanted to do. YMMV

Again - don't want to make a big polemic - I am still an Scope fan and will remain even if SonicCore dissaperars or some other caretaker comes in the future... it's just, that at the moment the new setup makes more sense for me - YMMV

So I want to re-iterate my advice for the free driver crowd - let SonicCore do business - they have a great product. If you think it's not for you, well, do what you have to do, but SC has to survive.


Thnx for your comments.

V

[Sounddesigner]

vmartell , that's NOT the Use-Audio bundle i was speaking of, that's Sonic Cores bundle and you can purchase the 4.5 upgrade more then once to get Both Synths&Sampler/Mix&Master packs at very low price.

I do understand where your comming from regarding PCI slots but there still are computers being made with them ATM so that and Vista support should carry most SCOPE users far into the future. And i trust S/C will come with hardware upgrade at Some point if not i myself will still try to get many years out of SCOPE. I've been threw about 3 computers the last 6 years so i'd rather put my trust in dsp power for sure, and i love the SCOPE sound. But again i do see your point and i know each musician has to do what's right for themselves. I won't preach to the choir about SCOPE anymore , good luck!

[reflex]

I'd like to offer another perspective: The Scope platform is a bargain. I wanted a Creamware rig for years, but could never justify the quite substantial outlay for two or three cards and a powerful computer.

I was finally able to buy a Scope system because used card prices have dropped so dramatically - a 6 DSP Pulsar II goes for about €200/$300 if you shop carefully. And I was able to build a reasonably spec'd computer to run Scope for about $300 after pulling some RAM from another machine and using an extra XP license that was going unused.

In fact, my total outlay has been under $1000 for the dedicated computer, 12 DSPs, and the 4.5 upgrade. I run Reaper as my main sequencing package and the system runs like a dream.

The REAL benefit of Scope is that I always know (more or less) how much DSP power I have remaining. If I had chosen an all-software solution running on a generic PC, I'd always have found myself running out of CPU cycles at the most awkward times, and Scope synths simply sound better than the vast majority of inexpensive VSTi softsynths (I simply don't have the money to blow $200 on a single good softsynth).

I'm happy.

[hifiboom]

if you are happy with the native stuff, there is no need to use scope.

Me for example, I always wanted a scope back in 1999 but could never afford that card especially the scope professional for 10000 or how much it was....

Now today the cards have become very relative cheap for what they do and when you go second hand you get them even cheaper. In earlier days they sell the plug-ins solo, now they have cheap bundles... 5 nice emeulations for 199 isn`t exactly what I call expensive.

I`m very happy and proud to be an owner of these cards, which stand for there quality. If you are happy with native stuff you can get it cheaper but not in that quality.
native half way decent synths have nearly zero value for me, even if I can get them for 50 bucks, when I never use them they are worthless.

[astroman]

that's exactly my point, too
you can argue about anything in Scope, but not that is expensive or expensive to mantain.

The 2 plus 2 STW reverbs I got for 250 Euro would have cost at least 4 times the amount for another DSP platform.
I paid 99 Euro for Mehdi's Black box package that gives me the ability to build about any virtual guitar stomp box I can think of.
And another 99 spent on Flexor enabled me to build those even beyond imagination
Scope may not have a big and shiny name, but I do have ears - and Scope has exactly that sound of precious hardware in world-class studios, for a fraction of the cost.

I got practically all updates for free
It runs on totally cheap hardware and it does not require a new PC every 2 years.
The PCI versus PCIe thing is just rubbish (sorry we had that a dozen times meanwhile)

cheers, Tom

[Sounddesigner]

I don't think this is the SonicCore deal. right? SonicCore's own shop lists the synth and sampler package at 600 euro, with only

MINIMAX DSP Plug-In
Profit-5 DSP Plug-In
B2003 DSP Plug-In
Modular III DSP Plug-In
Vectron DSP Plug-In
STS-5000 DSP Plug-In

(link)

http://www.sonic-core.net/shop/product_ ... ack-2.html


V

I forgot to mention that the 4.5 upgrade has more in it then what you listed, e.g. Prodysee. and it does not come with profit5 it comes with pro12. I think poison and sb404 come with it also but those two are redundant. To get that bargain you do not buy the Synths&Sampler pack off the SonicCore website you email Ralph for the 4.5 upgrade wich also will give you a ton of other stock plugins. And the upgrade can be bought more then once.

[vmartell]

I forgot to mention that the 4.5 upgrade has more in it then what you listed, e.g. Prodysee. and it does not come with profit5 it comes with pro12. I think poison and sb404 come with it also but those two are redundant. To get that bargain you do not buy the Synths&Sampler pack off the SonicCore website you email Ralph for the 4.5 upgrade wich also will give you a ton of other stock plugins. And the upgrade can be bought more then once.

Is that information anyware on the site? If it's not why? I just did not know - Maybe I shouldn't have sold - anyway I am happy!

Now full of doubt... oh well, do not worry 'bout me - I''ll be fine!
Everything is working well...


V

[bill3107]

Yes, the 4.5 upgrade is worth it as soon as you need extra plugins ! I believe a good mix scope+native plugins rocks. I have just 2 spectrasonics vsti (RMX, atmosphere) and a host of vst effects (nomad factory) and then only sooniccore plugins (actually almost all of them, including 3rd party). I think 3rd party plugins are very cheap and very good too ! As for Soniccore's ones, there are many hot deals that make them cheap too. Quality, Price and Flexibility is available thanks to my socpe DAW ... all what I need ! But of course I do understand you vmartell : it depends on your needs. Many small home studios and musicians just prefer easiest ways : one sequencer, a few plugins, period. As soon as you go for bigger and professionnal projects, the mix scope+native helps you to get THE sound and avoid too many computers in your studio (thanks to the additional power / mixing+current VSTIs needs an increasing amount power !)

As for VISTA drivers, I am not ready to buy a vista licence now but as soon as RAM management is improved (xp limitations), we all may consider this new windows software. Well just my 2 cents ...

vmartell, i wish you good luck to you and your projects !

Jo

[kylie]

the 4.5 upgrade is even more a bargain when you remember there were times when you could get them for half the price during a [summer|winter|whatever]special.
I for one added a M&M pack to my XTC and the S&S pack to another card during the specials. and since those specials are repeated at kinda regular intervals one could easily overcome a temptation to buy immediately on release...
well, sometimes also a bit of luck is added. I remember being entitled not only to upgrade for free from 3.x to 4.0 when I bought my first card (the XTC) but also buying a plugin of my choice for half the shop price while registering the card. I chose the pro one, because it was 1) the cheapest one (99,-) and 2) of course I like it's sound. it turned out later that the price was an error in the shop, but since it was not my fault I was granted to buy it for 49,- anyway. (and for another 29,- JB granted me a crossgrade for his wc pro one v3.0 )
so there ARE ways to keep several of the mentioned costs lower than you think, and the 4.5 or 5.x license is needed only once for a team of cards.

if, of course, vista compatibiity is the only thing you're after, and you don't want/need to add what's coming with the upgrade, you might indeed feel like being charged for a driver. but then, remember when 4.5 was introduced. I just discovered some old mails from dec 2005 where I got my first upgrade. all cards sold after that date included the key. all cards purchased earlier are out of warranty anyway. there is no such thing as "a vendor (that even don't exist anymore) has to support it's products for free even after them being out of warranty period". if they do, fine. if not, they may charge you for anything additional if they like. uad delivers free driver upgrades, yes, but then, they dropped silently win2000 support inbetween days (well, I admit I didn't try if it works, though). I don't have to pay them, but instead another company (MS) for an upgrade (to XP), and have to reinstall my running system. it's Hobson's choice, isn't it? (just found out that this is the synonym for having the choice of pestilence over cholera.. )

-greetings, markus-

[maky325]

I don't think this is the SonicCore deal. right? SonicCore's own shop lists the synth and sampler package at 600 euro, with only

MINIMAX DSP Plug-In
Profit-5 DSP Plug-In
B2003 DSP Plug-In
Modular III DSP Plug-In
Vectron DSP Plug-In
STS-5000 DSP Plug-In

(link)

http://www.sonic-core.net/shop/product_ ... ack-2.html


V

I forgot to mention that the 4.5 upgrade has more in it then what you listed, e.g. Prodysee. and it does not come with profit5 it comes with pro12. I think poison and sb404 come with it also but those two are redundant. To get that bargain you do not buy the Synths&Sampler pack off the SonicCore website you email Ralph for the 4.5 upgrade wich also will give you a ton of other stock plugins. And the upgrade can be bought more then once.

Nope! Not true! Just ordered v4.5 from SonicCore few days ago. No prodyssey and no Pro 12! It will ship with Profit 5 though Profit 5 is about the same as Pro 12 (?!??)

But no prodyssey!

Check here:
http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/s ... mpler.html

And you will get ecatly that! Nothing less nothing more. I would like to see Prodyssey but no it is not inside.

[Mr Arkadin]

Profit 5 is Pro12 - just with the old badge and not the shiny new one. And yes i have no Prodyssey but i have 4.5. i only paid €98 (which is nice). Oddly i've noticed keys for the 48 channel mixer and the Surround Mixer too, which i'm sure i didn't buy (which is nice again).

[bill3107]

too bad for Prodyssey ... it is a must-have ... one of my favourites ! When I have the money I will buy the ASB version for sure !

[kylie]

prodissey is not and was never included in the S&S bundle.
the profit5 had this name earlier, before it was renamed to pro-12 (iirc at the time 4.5 came out). a shiny new nameplate was applied to it, but obviously (that's what I guess from the pictures) it's got the old plate again, together with the new company logo.

-greetings, markus-

ps. got the prodissey during a -guess what?- special for half its price, too

[Sounddesigner]

I forgot to mention that the 4.5 upgrade has more in it then what you listed, e.g. Prodysee. and it does not come with profit5 it comes with pro12. I think poison and sb404 come with it also but those two are redundant. To get that bargain you do not buy the Synths&Sampler pack off the SonicCore website you email Ralph for the 4.5 upgrade wich also will give you a ton of other stock plugins. And the upgrade can be bought more then once.

Nope! Not true! Just ordered v4.5 from SonicCore few days ago. No prodyssey and no Pro 12! It will ship with Profit 5 though Profit 5 is about the same as Pro 12 (?!??)

But no prodyssey!

Check here:
http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/s ... mpler.html

And you will get ecatly that! Nothing less nothing more. I would like to see Prodyssey but no it is not inside.

You may need to email Ralph because it was true for me that Prodysee comes with 4.5. I just bought it last September. I was surprised to see it myself. I installed my 4.5 s&s and realized i was missing Pro12 (it had not installed properly) but had Prodysee so i contacted Ralph and asked him if they stopped including Pro12 and included Prodysee instead. He never said i was not suppose to get Prodysee and gave me my number and download link for Pro12 as well. I just bought S&S and got Prodysee so you may wanna email Ralph to see whats all now included and ask him about Prodysee. I don't have the answers but i know what i was given and whats installed on my computer. I had a surprise with M&M pack as well.

[cyberzip]

I'm a SCOPE 4.0 user and I just need a basic Vista driver/mixer and nothing more. I've been emailing with Ralf Bach / SC and I will duplicate my latest standpoint here, because I think and hope a lot of you here agree:

"There _are_ a lot of users that would probably agree to pay a smaller sum for a basic Vista driver, please see the thread below. That way you can make money of those people, because I don't think you will manage to sell them the full 198€ package instead. I myself would put the 198€ towards a new soundcard with solid driver support, but I could instead give you a little less money than 198€...

http://www.planetz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24040

I know money talks, and I think this business model could be an extra source of revenue for you."

I don't want to scrap my fully working piece of hardware, but I am getting so tired of this constant fight for updated drivers. Anyone remember the Windows 2000 farce?

[cyberzip]

UPDATE

My discussion with Ralf / SC came to an end and he didn't move an inch. My final comment to him was that I basically offered to give SC some of my money, but to no avail.

Sonic Core are apparently counting on that enough people will buy the 198€ package for Vista support.

Before I start researching for a new soundcard when I move to Vista - how succesful have people been with using the XP drivers on Vista?

[darkrezin]

There is no way of using XP drivers in Vista as far as I know. Good luck with your new card...

edit - maybe I'm missing something here (didn't fancy reading thru 5 pages of whining) but what good is a Vista driver without a Scope OS to go with it? How do you plan to make your audio and MIDI connections with your cheap driver?