Posted: 14 Oct 2007 11:23 Post subject:
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Speaking of MIDI.
I wanted to prepare for Gigastudio 4 by having a 32 channel recording project ready when it's released at NAMM '08. The DAW will be upgraded, and ready to load 29 large libraries.
I have a dual MIDI I/O Scope ADAT Pro card I purchased for that reason. It allows MIDI A Source, and MIDI B Source modules to run 2 separate 16 MIDI channel set-ups in 1 project. 2 separate controllers, 2 separate mixers, etc. All being routed to the A16 Ultras I/O's.
This is why I chose to have 2 separate hardware reverbs as well. Since my Yamaha QY700 has 32 track / 32 channel capability this seems to be a perfect way to achieve this.
Is there another way I could do this? I am unfamiliar with computer based MIDI apps. / multi-client set-ups. Forte sounds pretty sweet, but GS4 will become a host for VSTi's and VST FX with it's new incarnation.
I Summon The Godz Of MIDI 4 Advice.
_________________
Jimmy V.
32 Channel MIDI Recording in Scope
once again: Ableton Live...
Just give it a try!
you can load vstis and route them to individual Outs.
Here's the demo:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/downloads/ ... ey=D_00_60
Cheers,
Jan
Just give it a try!
you can load vstis and route them to individual Outs.
Here's the demo:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/downloads/ ... ey=D_00_60
Cheers,
Jan
-/-
Thanks Gents 4 The Advice,
Brotha' Man Wolf,
ASIO 2 Source Module will carry 16 stereo channels, each with their own seperate MIDI channel and CC's, etc.
If I merge my 2 controllers into the project, they then become 1 giant controller as far as MIDI is concerned. Only 16 MIDI channels.
I prefer having 16 MIDI channels for the ASIO 2 Source Module and it's corresponding CC's. ( Scope MIDI A Source )
That way the second controller w/ it's separate 16 MIDI channels can do the assigned tasks w/o interferring with the ASIO 2 Source Modules assignments.
The 2 hardware units are actually one dual engine dedicated reverb, the PCM91, and the more synth friendly PCM81 which is a Multi-FX unit, capable of quality reverbs, but better suited for delays, and modulation FX. I hate reverb on synths. Personal taste.
Sorry the pic is too big, but I do not know how to shrink any further w/o degradation, and loss of quality.
During the paint session I used, your 2 session note pads got minimised, and I also disconnected the MIDI Sequencer Dest. Module. But I am sure a trained professional such as yourself can take 1 look and see why I need such routings.
Brotha' Man Wolf,
ASIO 2 Source Module will carry 16 stereo channels, each with their own seperate MIDI channel and CC's, etc.
If I merge my 2 controllers into the project, they then become 1 giant controller as far as MIDI is concerned. Only 16 MIDI channels.
I prefer having 16 MIDI channels for the ASIO 2 Source Module and it's corresponding CC's. ( Scope MIDI A Source )
That way the second controller w/ it's separate 16 MIDI channels can do the assigned tasks w/o interferring with the ASIO 2 Source Modules assignments.
The 2 hardware units are actually one dual engine dedicated reverb, the PCM91, and the more synth friendly PCM81 which is a Multi-FX unit, capable of quality reverbs, but better suited for delays, and modulation FX. I hate reverb on synths. Personal taste.
Sorry the pic is too big, but I do not know how to shrink any further w/o degradation, and loss of quality.
During the paint session I used, your 2 session note pads got minimised, and I also disconnected the MIDI Sequencer Dest. Module. But I am sure a trained professional such as yourself can take 1 look and see why I need such routings.
Hey JImmy,
the add. pic is indeed very helpful.
Right now it looks like you do the midi connections to the vsts by hand.
Wouldn't a midi switch&merge to connect the midi sources to the midi seq. dest be helpful ? Or if you just use one midi channel at a time, why not switching the channel at the midi controller.
And whats the reason for using two mixers ? Do you treat their outs different by the Samson ?
Or is it simply to keep a visual separation between scope and asio signals ?
Btw, does the (official) KS88 still sometimes spits out velocities at 127 ? I (was forced to) test this thing before it came out and the prototypes were terrible
One great thing it has though: nine faders for organ lovers !
best,
Wolfgang
the add. pic is indeed very helpful.
I guess you mean Scope MIDI B Source (Scope MIDI A Source is connected to scope synths in your pic) ? And with the B source you control the stuff (vsts, gs ?) routed via asio ?I prefer having 16 MIDI channels for the ASIO 2 Source Module and it's corresponding CC's. ( Scope MIDI A Source )
Right now it looks like you do the midi connections to the vsts by hand.
Wouldn't a midi switch&merge to connect the midi sources to the midi seq. dest be helpful ? Or if you just use one midi channel at a time, why not switching the channel at the midi controller.
And whats the reason for using two mixers ? Do you treat their outs different by the Samson ?
Or is it simply to keep a visual separation between scope and asio signals ?
hehe, me too.I hate reverb on synths. Personal taste.
Btw, does the (official) KS88 still sometimes spits out velocities at 127 ? I (was forced to) test this thing before it came out and the prototypes were terrible
One great thing it has though: nine faders for organ lovers !
best,
Wolfgang
You got it Bro.
I use approximately 8 different presets on the KS88 that control the VSTi's and the STM1632. I use 4 zones in each preset to cover the 16 Libraries currently used.
Right now these are actually 2 different projects being refined before I start using it live. I had to go from a dual controller using 16 MIDI channels to a dual controller using 32 MIDI channels.
The KS88's have since been fixed in a firmware update since the beta's. The little knobs, buttons, and faders are perfect for Scope, the downside being the crappy " heavy action " of the keybed. Sure I could whine about it's imperfections, but I'm one those guys who can adjust to any action. I even did a Blues gig on my sons 47 note Yamaha one weekend. You either rock, or you suck. And the Oberheim Matrix 12 has the shittiest action on a keyboard I ever played. But yes, to make the KS88's work better I use hardware MIDI Filters, and have your panic buttons and stock software filters as a back up. The sheer amount of active sensing that these USB controllers spit out these days is a constant source of irratation. I do not want that shit even coming close to entering my DAW.
I use a hardware MIDI sequencer, the Yamaha QY700. It has 2 MIDI outputs that actually function exactly like 2 MIDI controllers. It can generate 16 MIDI channels for it's internal Rompler sounds ( yecchh!! ) and 16 external. I have decided to use both outputs and send 2 seperate streams of 16 MIDI channels each to Scope A MIDI Source, and Scope B MIDI Source.
I don't use the sequencer like most guys would. I use it to automate the vocalists hardware FX, send a click to a drummer, as a metronome of sorts, Shut down the dimmer packs at the end of the songs, and mostly change all of my presets and FX while I play so I can adjust the rates and not be bothered by such mathematical chores. These are what I consider acceptable automations that do not interfere with an extended performance, i.e. when the dance floor is packed with fine trim, I have the option of adding another A, B, C, section, or just vamp till we decide to end the number.
Playing the same exact arrangements and pre recorded tracks can make a musician lazy, and hinder the improvisational aspects of the music.
The purpose of the Samson PL24 is to add hardware control of the separate signals, and the additional hardware FX, mostly the volume of the Rotary and Stereo Sub, and the Oberheim Echoplex, which sounds like shit if I route it into a Scope project. It loses 6db's for every connection. I like Lo-Fi, but it literally takes all of the FAT out of my synths, totally unacceptable.
Thanks for looking at this un conventional approach to my set up. It is somewhat complex, but extremely flexible. Total control of routing, and total flexibility with hardware. These examples are why I could never afford to do this in an all hardware set up. I need hardware and software simultaneously, and Scope is perfect for such a hybrid set up. I will definately mourn it's demise, if that day should come.
I use approximately 8 different presets on the KS88 that control the VSTi's and the STM1632. I use 4 zones in each preset to cover the 16 Libraries currently used.
Right now these are actually 2 different projects being refined before I start using it live. I had to go from a dual controller using 16 MIDI channels to a dual controller using 32 MIDI channels.
The KS88's have since been fixed in a firmware update since the beta's. The little knobs, buttons, and faders are perfect for Scope, the downside being the crappy " heavy action " of the keybed. Sure I could whine about it's imperfections, but I'm one those guys who can adjust to any action. I even did a Blues gig on my sons 47 note Yamaha one weekend. You either rock, or you suck. And the Oberheim Matrix 12 has the shittiest action on a keyboard I ever played. But yes, to make the KS88's work better I use hardware MIDI Filters, and have your panic buttons and stock software filters as a back up. The sheer amount of active sensing that these USB controllers spit out these days is a constant source of irratation. I do not want that shit even coming close to entering my DAW.
I use a hardware MIDI sequencer, the Yamaha QY700. It has 2 MIDI outputs that actually function exactly like 2 MIDI controllers. It can generate 16 MIDI channels for it's internal Rompler sounds ( yecchh!! ) and 16 external. I have decided to use both outputs and send 2 seperate streams of 16 MIDI channels each to Scope A MIDI Source, and Scope B MIDI Source.
I don't use the sequencer like most guys would. I use it to automate the vocalists hardware FX, send a click to a drummer, as a metronome of sorts, Shut down the dimmer packs at the end of the songs, and mostly change all of my presets and FX while I play so I can adjust the rates and not be bothered by such mathematical chores. These are what I consider acceptable automations that do not interfere with an extended performance, i.e. when the dance floor is packed with fine trim, I have the option of adding another A, B, C, section, or just vamp till we decide to end the number.
Playing the same exact arrangements and pre recorded tracks can make a musician lazy, and hinder the improvisational aspects of the music.
The purpose of the Samson PL24 is to add hardware control of the separate signals, and the additional hardware FX, mostly the volume of the Rotary and Stereo Sub, and the Oberheim Echoplex, which sounds like shit if I route it into a Scope project. It loses 6db's for every connection. I like Lo-Fi, but it literally takes all of the FAT out of my synths, totally unacceptable.
Thanks for looking at this un conventional approach to my set up. It is somewhat complex, but extremely flexible. Total control of routing, and total flexibility with hardware. These examples are why I could never afford to do this in an all hardware set up. I need hardware and software simultaneously, and Scope is perfect for such a hybrid set up. I will definately mourn it's demise, if that day should come.
Well here's one the mixers I will use for sure.
This doesn't demonstrate my 32 Channel MIDI project, but rather a live project for the next 2 months until a new upgrade and custom synth mixer are made.
I will have to get another 15DSP AES/EBU card to replace the 6 DSP card.
Right now I can run the FB5, and Wolf's 16 Channel mixer side by side. The problem is that the FB5 must be re designed to be cut down for specific synths, and Wolf's design will go to 32 channels in November.
I have all of the synths in DSP that I will ever need. With Wolf's 32 Channel Modification for all ASIO / VSTi needs this set up will finally be complete. It only took 2 1/2 years, but I am quite happy.
Wolf and Mehdi's mixers are sonically superior to the stock CW mixers. I'm not sure how that was achieved, but it's quite noticable when the Lexicons are routed into the project. I have never had such routing options, and quality synths and samplers. The analog hardware synth really buzzes with electrical beauty, and since the new filters for the Pro One , and Prowave have been introduced this project has become an extreme sucess in sonic beauty.
The extra 9 DSP ships are definately needed, as I am pushing 95% right now. Once a project gets optimised the little problems w/ the audio, and allocation of power dissappears, but I will have to go w/ 45 DSP's instead of the 36 DSP's I chose to use. I never thought I would need that many, but then again I never thought my projects would sound so incredible.
My B2003's upper drawbars get lost, and some audio paths go silent, but I am really pushing the DSP load by having such high polyphony on the synths. The ideas of routing external hardware effects, and analog synths saves DSP 4 sure, and make all virtual effects and synths sound so much more real.
Scope is the only way to mix synths and samplers, the pitiful little audio routers that come w/ sampler apps are useful for sending a signal to these sophisticated, incredible sounding mixers, where anything can be routed anywhere, and controlled live. I love mixing my own sounds on the fly. It's important to improvise musically during every performance, but when you can improvise the way you mix and use FX, along with that, it is the way to perform live.
This doesn't demonstrate my 32 Channel MIDI project, but rather a live project for the next 2 months until a new upgrade and custom synth mixer are made.
I will have to get another 15DSP AES/EBU card to replace the 6 DSP card.
Right now I can run the FB5, and Wolf's 16 Channel mixer side by side. The problem is that the FB5 must be re designed to be cut down for specific synths, and Wolf's design will go to 32 channels in November.
I have all of the synths in DSP that I will ever need. With Wolf's 32 Channel Modification for all ASIO / VSTi needs this set up will finally be complete. It only took 2 1/2 years, but I am quite happy.
Wolf and Mehdi's mixers are sonically superior to the stock CW mixers. I'm not sure how that was achieved, but it's quite noticable when the Lexicons are routed into the project. I have never had such routing options, and quality synths and samplers. The analog hardware synth really buzzes with electrical beauty, and since the new filters for the Pro One , and Prowave have been introduced this project has become an extreme sucess in sonic beauty.
The extra 9 DSP ships are definately needed, as I am pushing 95% right now. Once a project gets optimised the little problems w/ the audio, and allocation of power dissappears, but I will have to go w/ 45 DSP's instead of the 36 DSP's I chose to use. I never thought I would need that many, but then again I never thought my projects would sound so incredible.
My B2003's upper drawbars get lost, and some audio paths go silent, but I am really pushing the DSP load by having such high polyphony on the synths. The ideas of routing external hardware effects, and analog synths saves DSP 4 sure, and make all virtual effects and synths sound so much more real.
Scope is the only way to mix synths and samplers, the pitiful little audio routers that come w/ sampler apps are useful for sending a signal to these sophisticated, incredible sounding mixers, where anything can be routed anywhere, and controlled live. I love mixing my own sounds on the fly. It's important to improvise musically during every performance, but when you can improvise the way you mix and use FX, along with that, it is the way to perform live.