God is not great: How religion poisons everthing

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:52 pm

Sadly religion did ruin things and it is pointless and a big waste of time and money.

total nonsense.
People 'ruined' things.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:04 am

that's what i said.
i'll give him this though, religion has often been a tool to ruin things. still, it took people participating in the ruining.

piddi-nice anagram.

Post by **hubird** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:27 am

to give it a turn, would the absense of any relegion probably make the world better?
One could argue that suffering people who don't have any hope (as they don't have relegion), would revolt against injustice faster than wíth relegion.
And revolt makes the world better...

Hysteric · Post by **Hysteric** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:38 am

Oh my whatever you call it, an athmusist.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:56 am

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:43 am

manfriday wrote:
Sadly religion did ruin things and it is pointless and a big waste of time and money.
total nonsense.
People 'ruined' things.

A-fucking-men. Still I think this pointless conversation will keep going on and on in circles because Braincell, as a typical dogmatic atheist, refuses to address this one simple fact. Honestly, I've met fundamentalist religious people who are more open-minded and intelligent.

Braincell, keep your fingers in your hears singing "la la la la laaaa"... no offence but I think it's probably beyond your comprehension anyways.

Post by **hubird** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:41 am

Stardust, and the RealBook is the bible?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:41 am

hubird wrote:to give it a turn, would the absense of any relegion probably make the world better?
One could argue that suffering people who don't have any hope (as they don't have relegion), would revolt against injustice faster than wíth relegion.
And revolt makes the world better...

You're doubting this fact?
Without revolt we would still be slaves in this country. Revolts across the globe brought many freedoms to ordinary people, even in your own country against the spanish occupation (Dutch Revolt). And yes, belief in false hopes have caused and are still causing people to suffer needlessly longer.

The absence of religion would definetly make the world better. First of all, we would have been at this stage of scientific knowledge 1500 years ago. Up to 1600, most common people could not even read. We would have made faster scientific discoveries under no pressures from a paranoid clergy that only is concerned about maintaining its grip on the world.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:22 am

stardust wrote:Since this is a musician forum i take an analogon to music.
[quixotic mode on]
My thesis:
I am anti-music cause it is the source of delusion and makes people dumb and addicted

My simplistic point of view to this:
Music always led to escapist reactions like lying on the sofa plastered with loud music or saturday night outs with alcohol, drugs and sex. music rituals to enforce addiction and escape from serious life.
Musicians were in all times exploited.
The Music industry is hunting with brutal and meanwhile legalized methods their victims.
The politics dont do nothing against radios, vinyls and web downloads.

Music itself is noted in sheets:
sheets are not containing anything like truth and beauty.
They are just pieces of paper with black notes on 5 lines in a certain sequence.
But these musician get so excited about it when they see them.
They even take them in their hands, stare at them and talk about inspiration and excellent composition.
They look to black spots on paper and talk about emotions and moods.
It is so pathetic. They are fools.
It led to things like recording those 'songs' in computer programs with various methods.
As if that changes the fact that it remains just a sequence of 1s and 0s. nothing else.

music is poisoning everything
This music BS is also indoctrinated to the audience.
They are from the beginning conditioned to accept music as something beautiful. Parties, Radio running all day, rituals with music,....
At home and in the school they are forced to accept that music is a pleasure and an integral part of their life and humanity.
People who are not keen on that are mobbed. They call them names like unmusical and deaf.

Noone needs music to make his life !
You can walk, sit, eat sleep, think, work without.

Especially it is total nonsense to put these esoteric and hermetic abstract excitement in it.
music is just noise, sometimes tonal sometime atonal. in the end it is a sequence of absolutely basic and natural noise.

All these joy of listening to music is just a result of indoctrination, self deception, a psychological drug to avoid confrontation with the real world.

look at all the bad things that music has done.
slavery, discrimination of afroamericans , coordination in military music, music addicts in clubs, children spending all their money for musicdownloads and ring tones.

I guess I have to start now to hate music for what it does.
And the musicians are the worst.
they train their children and publicly speak about the advantages and the joy of making music.
bahhhh
[/quixotic mode off]

This is all pretentious bullshit not to mention that the analogy is completely absurd and, as you like to put it (forgive me if I do it again), incommensurable. It seems to me that your obsessive drive to rationalize religion in most of your replies has led you make some of the most irrational arguments.

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:23 am

Do you know why Mehmet Ali Agca tried to kill Pope John Paul II?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:28 am

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:04 am

Music is entertainment. Religion is not entertainment. Anyone who has listened to a sermon knows that. Colleges teach Greek Mythology. No college teaches a class named Christian Mythology. Ever wonder why? It is because they think it's all real. They take it very seriously. It's not like a hobby like astrology or tarot cards are for some people. It is a serious thing and the main purpose of it is to control and dominate people; not just fellow church goers but everyone on the planet.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:31 am

stardust wrote:Bingo you are in the allegation mode again
And the insults, whether on purpose or not, do not work with me.

By looking to the way you responded you confirm your style.
This is basically ok, cause it does not matter.

It looks like you're stuck in denial mode

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:28 am

stardust wrote:Denial of what ?
Allegation mode again.

Denial of arguments.
Yes, I allege and you deny with no sources, evidence but your own irrational oppinions.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:54 am

Music is not entertainment, it is a way of life.

Existence to me is a lot more than eating, shitting, fucking and sleeping. If that's all it means to you then that's fine, but you really should try to understand that it's not like that for everyone else.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:13 am

you guys, this discussion has become much more of a stylistic problem than a problem of conflicting viewpoints. Not that I'm to regulate anything but although there were many different view points, the discussion was going well until it became a series of low blows. Do discuss the topic, but do keep in mind that you need to "discuss". Not dominate the world with one view.

It's a simple process. Whatever you do not want to refute, you leave, and pick out only comments that you can put down. It's a filteration process, and doesn't really make one viewpoint more valid than the other. There is no competition as to which viewpoint is more valid than the other. You take many view points, and learn from it.

Like with braincell's comments, there are some points that I do not agree with, but I also agree with some parts of it. And I'm sure that's mutual.

Like taking the bible literal.. some people do take it literal, I don't think it has to be taken literally, and I think that it's more important to be able to look through the literal statements to understand the abstract concept that is being portrayed. Braincell thinks the bible shouldn't be taken literally (shouldn't be taken at all), and I agree part with that, as it's stupid to get caught up with the tiny details and not understand the fundamental concepts at all. (like some religious extremists) And that's partially why I think that religions can become corrupt. It's hard to make generalizations that encompass everything, but we do have our own viewpoints. There are some overlaps if you see through the differences. You listen and exchange viewpoints, and learn. Now that's a good discussion.

You don't want to get caught up in trying to break each other's credibility to shut the guy up. That's pretty much the end of any discussion.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:42 am

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote:Denial of what ?
Allegation mode again.
Denial of arguments.
Yes, I allege and you deny with no sources, evidence but your own irrational oppinions.
ok so far you stay in your procedure.

So what's the problem?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:22 am

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote: ok so far you stay in your procedure.

So what's the problem?
Nothing. As I said before. It does not matter. No impact. No significance.

You don't give a flying fuck in other words.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:32 am

darkrezin wrote:Music is not entertainment, it is a way of life.

Existence to me is a lot more than eating, shitting, fucking and sleeping. If that's all it means to you then that's fine, but you really should try to understand that it's not like that for everyone else.

So the existence to you is "eating, shitting, cleaning yourself, fucking, sleeping" and indulging in grand delusions of magnanimous gods in seventh heaven?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:42 am

kensuguro wrote: Like taking the bible literal.. some people do take it literal, I don't think it has to be taken literally, and I think that it's more important to be able to look through the literal statements to understand the abstract concept that is being portrayed. Braincell thinks the bible shouldn't be taken literally (shouldn't be taken at all), and I agree part with that, as it's stupid to get caught up with the tiny details and not understand the fundamental concepts at all. (like some religious extremists) And that's partially why I think that religions can become corrupt. It's hard to make generalizations that encompass everything, but we do have our own viewpoints. There are some overlaps if you see through the differences. You listen and exchange viewpoints, and learn. Now that's a good discussion.

You don't want to get caught up in trying to break each other's credibility to shut the guy up. That's pretty much the end of any discussion.

If the bible was rational it wouldn't need any interpretations.