Analogue desk with Scope

grappa · Post by **grappa** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:13 am

Hi,

Getting into unknown ground here so could do with some advice.

After much deliberation I am planning to get hold of an old analogue console for mixing duties but would like to use Scope coupled with an A16 for VDAT, synthesis and outboard.

I am fine with VDAT and synths however my concern is using Scope for outboard - is there much of a delay involved when pushing a signal through the A16, Scope and then back out throught the A16 again and is this going to be an issue. I am interested in using Warps fab reverbs and Vinco etc.

Appreciate any help.

Regards,

Simon

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:31 am

The only delay is introduced by the A16 ADDA converter. You won't notice it. I used outboard valve pre-amps and compressors through a RAMSA DA7 as the converter and everything ran smoothly without any hint of noticeable latency. So for all intents and purposes you won't have any problems at all with delay.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:40 am

I once used a Korg 168 digital mixer in a similiar way (via adat) resulting in about 20 samples delay for a full roundtrip (Pulsar adat out, mixer adat in, mixer adat out, Pulsar adat in).

I'd expect 10 samples for the adat stage of Scope plus an unknown (probably smaller) amount for the analog desk.
You may check with a Scope signal which return is fed to an (inverted) neighbour channel of the source. By succesivly adding 'sample delays' (as in the 2448 mixer) to the source you'll find a point of loudness minimum, representing the 'latency' of the signal path.

As Stuart wrote, it's unnoticable per individual signal, but (may be) relevant if a source is present as a parallel path.
Your idea is a good strategy imho, assuming you add some quality analog stuff

cheers, Tom

grappa · Post by **grappa** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:17 pm

Appreciate the advice guys.

Tom: Found a place that sells fully refurbed Soundtracs desks over here for about the same money as a decent channel strip! All those faders, all those mic pre's, all that eq - sod the automation give me the real estate

Simon

medway · Post by **medway** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:13 pm

Have fun trying to recall mixes

Analog boards are great but man I couldn't live without recallability now.

grappa · Post by **grappa** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:22 am

You are right of course Medway. Going to try and get something with recall and maybe automation

Brings me on to another question that only the experienced and old-hands will know about - SMTPE.

Am I right in understanding that SMTP is timecode - you stripe a track with the timecode and then this can be used to sync desk automation? How does SMTPE data get generated? Can you sync a sequencer to SMTPE or do you have to use MTC which consumes another track?

Sorry if I am asking dumb questions but this is definately unknown ground for me.

Any info appreciated

Simon

synthetic88 · Post by **synthetic88** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:21 pm

"If the mix wasn't right, why do you want to recall it?" - George Harrison.

synthetic88 · Post by **synthetic88** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:28 pm

grappa wrote:You are right of course Medway. Going to try and get something with recall and maybe automation

Brings me on to another question that only the experienced and old-hands will know about - SMTPE.

Am I right in understanding that SMTP is timecode - you stripe a track with the timecode and then this can be used to sync desk automation?

Yes. In the old days of 24-track analog, you would put SMPTE on track 24 and the console would chase that.

How does SMTPE data get generated?

With a SMPTE generator. If you buy a decent MIDI interface, like a MOTU MIDI Timepiece, it has a reader and generator built-in.

Can you sync a sequencer to SMTPE or do you have to use MTC which consumes another track?

MTC only exists on a MIDI cable. SMPTE is an audio signal that sounds like a modem or fax machine. They are more or less the same otherwise. Your computer will convert one to the other for you. You could set your sequencer to generate MTC, then SMPTE would come out of the MOTU MTP. (It's the only MIDI interface I would recommend to anyone these days.)

SMPTE comes in many frame rates for video: 30, 29.97, 25, 24. If you're only using it in the studio, 30 frame non drop is the standard for that. Because the timing is the same as the clock on the wall: 3 minutes = 3 minutes.

medway · Post by **medway** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:10 am

synthetic88 wrote:"If the mix wasn't right, why do you want to recall it?" - George Harrison.

Because why reinvent the wheel each time if only a small tweak is needed.

medway · Post by **medway** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:13 am

grappa wrote:You are right of course Medway. Going to try and get something with recall and maybe automation

Brings me on to another question that only the experienced and old-hands will know about - SMTPE.

Am I right in understanding that SMTP is timecode - you stripe a track with the timecode and then this can be used to sync desk automation? How does SMTPE data get generated? Can you sync a sequencer to SMTPE or do you have to use MTC which consumes another track?

Sorry if I am asking dumb questions but this is definately unknown ground for me.

Any info appreciated

Simon

There's different options for striping. Most inrterfaces can do it, Sx can do it as well. The beauty of smpte is that once recorded its set in stone, its not generated on the fly so its more consistent as opposed to something like midi clock.

MTC wouldn't consume a track, its just generated realtime out the designated midi output port. Smpte is audio so uses a soundcard audio out.