Calling All Dance Music Freaks

Stompa81 · Post by **Stompa81** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:44 pm

hifiboom wrote:make sure you get something bigger than 6DSP, if you wanna use some synth stuff. And I swear you will !

Ok

Should I go for the Pro version of scope or as above mentioned or get a project and pulsar ??(im guessing using 2 PCI slots would have some advantages??)

hifiboom wrote: as you are into hardcore and hardfloor, the scope synths will fit very will. They all have a very fat and analog rich sound which makes it easy to cut through the mix.

How would you rate these synths (like OP8 as suggested earlier) against a Virus Ti?? At a guess I say these suggested plugins will be Red hot, but mabye not quite as hot as a Virus Ti??

hifiboom wrote: basically in Scope you will find less tools than in the vst domain. But thats a plus point. All the tools are of a very high quality. you are limited to high quality stuff.
Second its better to have a few high class tools than endless "medium quality VST plus"

This is my main reason for switching to SCOPE, Im no pro , but i can put my hand on my heart and say MOST Vsts are crap in terms of sound quality, they may do weird and wonderful things.. but whats the use If it souds like your speakers are buried in Mud

(bit of an over statement)

I have had endless suggestions of "Try this Vst ... Its da Bomb" , so I fire it up and almost every time the result is Far from Good. Always wondered How Movie audio was made, How the newer Dance Tracks have such a high fidelity, and have always said to myslef " you cant achieve this with only using Vsts. there must be something else in the picture" Now thanks to My local Music store salesman for educating me that SCOPE exsisted, and After Reading the Hell out of these forums I now know.. Wonder why it took me 4 years to Learn about DSP and SCOPE

Its just Too easy to Pick out a Song ridden with VSts (well in hardcore dance tunes anyway)

Dont get me Wrong , i like Some vsts because thats all ive ever used (Waves Diamond bundle is my number 1, I can already hear u all laughing at me

) , But IMO Vsts are a good concept, but i dont think computers are actually powerfull enough or the software isnt developed enough to Compete with DSP processing.

hifiboom wrote: So prepare your weapons and join us....

Look Forward to it And Thanks for everyone for the Feedback

Post by **garyb** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:57 pm

for synths, one big board will likely be better than two small ones....

Stompa81 · Post by **Stompa81** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:30 pm

hubird wrote: A friend of mine always wants totall controll, even every single drumsound has it's own dedicated channel.
He never finishes a song

HAHAH thats my problem too!! You dont want to know how many unfinished tunes I have got

And ive lost most of them too due to my extremely poor Backup Regime

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:46 pm

the advantage with a 15DSP board is, you mostly get both the plug-in packs by default... the mix and master and synths and sampler pack.

you can also buy two 6 dsp cards.

I bought my two Scope project (12DSP) with nearly every CW plug-in + some additional stuff for a good price on ebay... So this was a good deal .

Now if I could choose again, I would try to buy a 15 DSP board, because that would free another pci slot for another card.

And you get able to use the SDK pack. (developers pack)

alone the fact to run John Bowens Prophet emulation with some voices is worth the money to buy these cards, as you get wonderful nice and rich sounds out of it... (especially for trancy melodies)

The Prodyssey and Minimax is great too.

The class of these synths is an own league.

Sometimes a patch with a single voice sounds as full and rich as 5 unison voices on VST instrument. And the VST synth still misses the richness.

I`ve learned its better to have a good dry sound by default, than a cheap sounding synth sound with endless amount of effect behind...
so I`m sure you won`t find the need anymore for loading countless comps and EQs on every channel, once you work with the scope cards...

and I recommend you to get Flexor I and the soon coming version II, to get every sound out of these cards you wish to have.
you then get the possibility to build your own synth and effect creations....

Flexor I has some fantastic distortions inside, so you will be able to render a dry sounding 909 kick into that aggressive hardcore bass kick with overtones...
or roughen any synth sound

Flexor II will open our doors for modular heaven, it will render the Scope platform into one of the most powerful modular systems you will ever see.
not only soundwise but also in terms of flexibility...

At the end you will still be able to use your waves and VST stuff and your Virus TI to complement your new arsenal.

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:27 am

astroman wrote:I'm no expert on that particular style you produce, but I'm damn sure this particular synth will be extremely useful... (I just spent an hour or so ..)
check out the OP8 by Wavelenght
it's like the user interface - get it straight, hard and distorted - with some sounds (and modulations) you'd probably never expect from softsynths, light on DSP - heavy in sound
with the right knobs tweaking it can morph a bassline into a drumtrack...
I just mention it here as it's not the most obvious thing to find

cheers, Tom

Definately agree with you there astroman!

Hi there stompa81. Welcome to the Creamers!!!

I got myself two Scope Professional cards a couple of years ago and, after a few months of head scratching and door slamming, I got myself a system I was very, very happy with. Sounds like you might be into the same stuff as me - big euphoric trance, big funky techno and wierd electronica (with a bit of The Pixies thrown in!). For me, Creamware Scope is best for it's:-

awesome synths - so many great ones that I just can't remember them all at the moment - try the Wavelength ones - (set of four synths:- Europa, OP-8, SparC, Uberplastic all sound amazing!! These really have to be heard to believed. Find a preset you like and then just start twiddling those knobs!! Only my Powercore Virus comes close to satasfying me as much now! $249US for all four!!!!!!!!! - http://www.track0.com/wavelength/devices.html

John Bowen:- lovely warm thick synth recreations http://www.zargmusic.com/

fantastic range of awesome dynamic processing devices:-
Orbitone's Impressor - standard, sidechain, multiband:- http://www.planetz.com/orbitone/prodeffects.htm

Wolf Audio:- http://www.worldless.com/sfp/index.html:- great midi tools, manglers and the Matrix Delay!!

http://www.deviceplug-ins.com/shop.htm :- some great and wierd stuff - Level Devil is amazing!!

Celmo:- ever walked into a toy shop and not wanted to walk out?......... http://www.celmo.com/page_accueil_plugins2.htm

DADEV:- sadly no longer developing for Creamware but still has his Creamware stuff for sale - get the whole lot for $89! - The Multicomp (mulit bandcompressor) is worth 3 times that itself!! This things is amazing!! http://www.dadev.com/old/

The thing I really notice about the Creamware sound is how much balls it's got!! Not just the synths but the distortion devices, the compressors, the filters - they all have 100 times the power of any VST plugins I have tried. I wouldn't get rid of my VST plugins for anything as a lot of them do sound at least half decent and it's good to have a variety of different sounds - but none of them quite have the bite and power of Creamware plugins!! Get at least one Scope Professional to start you off though (15DSP). 6DSP won't last you long!!

Good luck!! Have fun!!

Stompa81 · Post by **Stompa81** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:03 am

hesnotthemessiah wrote: The thing I really notice about the Creamware sound is how much balls it's got!! Not just the synths but the distortion devices, the compressors, the filters - they all have 100 times the power of any VST plugins I have tried. I wouldn't get rid of my VST plugins for anything as a lot of them do sound at least half decent and it's good to have a variety of different sounds - but none of them quite have the bite and power of Creamware plugins!! Get at least one Scope Professional to start you off though (15DSP). 6DSP won't last you long!!
Good luck!! Have fun!!

Very good to hear!!

Yeah definatly going to start off with a PRO card after a little more reading and suggestions in this post.

Went to buy a big enough Case to Fit the Sucker Today and when i Told the Sales guy the name of the soundcard, he giggled like a little girl. So i said "Whats so funny ?? Its true!! .. Im Creaming my pants about it, so the name suits rater well !!

"

If... i mean ... When 15 DSP's doesnt quite cut it, instead of having to buy another Pro card to make it 30 is there any card that is just DSP's with no audio interfaces to save a bit of Coin??? (i think thats what scope FX is ??)

Another Quick Question, Any one here own a VIRUS TI?? If so how do you rate it against the Synth Pugins that are available for the Scope Platform??

I spent 6 sleepless months behind a Virus TI (an ex Friends... hence why i dont have Access to it anymore

), when it first came out, First OS..... It absouloiutely sucked in terms of "Total Intergration" for cubase and ableton.... however it sounded sweeter than anything, and I have yet to hear anything that sounds as good (for dance music).

If anyone can show me a plugin that comes close to what the TI can do, i will buy it. Cause the TI is way too pricey and I really dont like Its VST interface!!

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:27 am

Stompa81 wrote: Yeah definatly going to start off with a PRO card after a little more reading and suggestions in this post.

Good decision, you'll really be able to test the potential of the platform this way.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:35 am

the Creamware synth's soundrange is like this :
the Modular being the grandma of all, plus the Flexor Extension (for Modular), plus the filters (and some circuit emulation) of the 'classic' analogs (Moog, Sequential, Arp)

now since not everyone has the time to patch Modulars, developers like Zarg, Wavelength, SpaceF, Celmo etc built custom devices which focus on certain aspects of synth design, but keep an amazingly high level of individual 'soundprint' .
That is the biggest difference to 99% of all VSTi and probably the Virus too, but I don't have one around to be sure.

the synth that comes closest to the Virus (in appeal) is Zarg's Solaris, the sounding proof for the experience of John Bowen - noone will question that he simply has that 'advantage'

An omnipotent 'all birds with one stone attempt', it's even capable to load modular patches into it's sound engine.

Wavelength and Celmo on the other hand made a series of very organic, individual instruments - and I really mean instruments, not plugins...
You will not be able to do with Solaris what you can do with the afforementioned OP8, and of course not vice-versa, except a few very basic setups that work more or less identical on any synth.

SpaceF has found another way to build highly modular synths with lots of 'associated' processors that feature a very creative approach to sound sceneries. He's best in integrating various sources and processors.

Creamware's own focus is on trustworthy copies of the famous 'classics' and those have been called the closest that virtual analog can get to the real thing

the individualist can build all on his own with Modular, Flexor and SDK (given you have a Scope pro board to apply for the noncommercial license)

that's the basic roadmap to SFP synths imho - as mentioned, choose your weapons.
the soundquality is on par with the Virus, the versatilty is most likely higher on Scope (imho) - the Virus still has an advantage in it's physical interface, but well, Frankfurt fair isn't too far... something's gonna happen...

chees, Tom

Stompa81 · Post by **Stompa81** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:34 pm

Sounds like the creamware synth plugins should do the job I need them to do, Definatly Glad to have Made the Descision about the Pro Board, otherwise I think I would have been Dissapointed not to be able to use Creamware synths properly.

Im hoping due to the rather simplistic layout of dance tracks ,15 DSP's should let me lay down the Basic Elements.

Say If I had one of the samplers loaded(STS-something) , and one of the synths (say OP8), how much DSP room would be left for Eq's and other FX (on a pro card)??

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:58 pm

stompa,

this really depends on the synth thenself and how many voices you need...
the sts sampler is pretty low on DSP...

the synths eats up more DSP power...
The high class synths (minimax, prodyssey, Pro-12) eat more ressources as the basic synths ( juno emulation and the other basic stuff)

for example I can load 3 x Pro-12 with 3/3/2 voices without onboard fx + a STM1632 mixer for mixing them with asio channels... on a 6 DSP card....
or you could load a pro-12 with 8 voices instead of the 3 above....

considering the fatness and richness of the synths, you will not need 20 of them....

Vinco the compressor is pretty low on DSP ressources...
as the EQs, delays and other simpler stuff is too....

But it is really a question of quality....

does it really help you if can load 100 VSTi and 400EQs + 200 comps in native world if the result is not what you are looking for... and every stage is degrading your sound a bit more.

12 DSPs are by far not ultra powerful.... I would like to have more...
but 15 DSPs is a good start.
make sure to get as much additional plug-ins as you can....

Post by **hubird** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:11 pm

hubird wrote:
astroman wrote:check out the OP8 by Wavelenght
perfect advice, the low-fi (SID) settings make the synth perfectly fit with my MachineDrum and MonoMachine, which offer also the SID 'machine' (Elektron term).
The only thing is, it made me just spend another USD117,- out of the blue
Just on base of the mp3 samples on Stephan's site

I just stumbled on this piece of text on Wavelength/Stephen Hummel's music website:

There are a few hardware pieces that I want to eventually add to my pile, including Dave Smith's PolyEvolver, the MiniMoog Voyager and all the stuff Elektron have been making... I'm starting to crave hardware again, after working primarily in software for so long. Even with all the useful controllers out there now, I still create differently on an instrument that has its dedicated parameters specifically laid-out in an inspiring/ tactile way.

Makes me feel even more convinced that I bought the right thing from the right man

(sorry for hijacking)

hesnotthemessiah · Post by **hesnotthemessiah** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:28 pm

Stompa81 wrote: If... i mean ... When 15 DSP's doesnt quite cut it, instead of having to buy another Pro card to make it 30 is there any card that is just DSP's with no audio interfaces to save a bit of Coin??? (i think thats what scope FX is ??)

Another Quick Question, Any one here own a VIRUS TI?? If so how do you rate it against the Synth Pugins that are available for the Scope Platform??

I spent 6 sleepless months behind a Virus TI (an ex Friends... hence why i dont have Access to it anymore ), when it first came out, First OS..... It absouloiutely sucked in terms of "Total Intergration" for cubase and ableton.... however it sounded sweeter than anything, and I have yet to hear anything that sounds as good (for dance music).

If anyone can show me a plugin that comes close to what the TI can do, i will buy it. Cause the TI is way too pricey and I really dont like Its VST interface!!

Looks like you might want a SCOPE 14-DSP Booster Board - info at :- http://www.cwaudio.de/index.php? Price at Axe Music $1,461.67 - http://www.axemusic.com/prodtype.asp?PT ... istory=cat sub .

Never used a TI but I do use a Powercore Access Virus on my Powercore Cards. This sounds absolutely brilliant - evertime I use it I end up spending loads of time just playing and creating sounds, it is so inspirational. It does have a few quirks but then nothing that really bothers me. You would definately need to get the "Virus Unilimited" version though as the standard version only allows one instance to be loaded. One Virus instance includes 4 separate parts (instruments). The unlimted version allows as many instances as you have DSPs left on your cards. The Powercore cards have 4 DSPs each and you can load upto 4 parts per DSP - so 16 parts (instruments) in total per card. Polyphony is reduced by various things such as the Vocoder. The effects and filters are awesome.

Check out the JRRShop at http://www.jrrshop.com/index.php?cPath= ... =2a&page=2 for the TC Electronic | Access Powercore Virus at $399USD and the TC Electronic | Access Powercore Virus Unlimited Upgrade at $199. Plus you will need a Powercore (preferably MKII to run all the latest Powercore stuff) card. Infact, a good option might be the TC Electronic Powercore PCI mkII, Element, Access Virus Bundle at http://www.jrrshop.com/index.php?cPath=77_157_89_140 . I use a mixture of Powercore cards myself. The older Element cards (4x100mHz DSPs) are not quite as powerful but will run most current Powercore stuff - including the Access Virus and you will have the additional power of a Powercore PCI MKII card (4x150mHz DSPs) to run further Virus instances or other Powercore stuff. Plus the MKII comes with Dynamic EQ, Character, Denoise, Filtroid, & Master X3. Dynamic EQ, Character and Filtroid are absolutely brilliant!!!! Filtroid is a fantastic digital sounding filter that is really well designed for dance music, Dynamic EQ is a fantastic sounding and well designed EQ that is acts like a multiband compressor (I am going to be shot for that!!) and Character can really help bring out parts of a mix that you apply it too - like the drums or synth stabs etc. One of my favourites is the TC Electronic Powercore Assimilator at $199USD (http://www.jrrshop.com/index.php?cPath= ... =2a&page=1) which can "Learn the sound of your favourite mix and apply it to your own". I use this to learn the sound of a particular style of music I am doing from a well recorded source. I then keep the Assimilator on screen with this EQ curve. Then, when doing my mix, I can have some idea if I have my EQ levels correct by seeing how my mix's EQ curve appears compared to the "pro" version. This is a very simplified version of how I use it but I find it invaluable. I have really learnt alot using the Assimilator - especially about reducing my bass levels and creating a more lively/open/bright sounding mix.

So heres what you need:-

Creamware Scope Professional 4.5 (version to be decided) $1499USD

TC Electronic Powercore PCI mkII, Element, Access Virus Bundle $999USD

TC Electronic | Access Powercore Virus Unlimited Upgrade $199USD

TOTAL:- $2700USD

Oh!! And get EnergyXT!!!!! I had better stop here..............

Lets us know how you get on.

Good luck. And have fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!!!

Stompa81 · Post by **Stompa81** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:50 pm

Wow sounds pretty awesome, I wish Access would make a scope version so I could just stick to cramware hardware.

Seeing as though there are a few versions of the scope Pro card, I dont know weather to try and find a cheaper version 1 second hand or just get a brand new version 2??

Thats a good price for that scope pro card. A certain Music shop here in Australia it trying to sell a scope pro for $3500 AUD wich is $2784.60 USD?? $1300USD more that the price you listed!!

I think I might get a cheaper one overseas

any dealers wanna PM me with a Quote for a Scope Pro ??

medway · Post by **medway** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:28 am

Stompa81 wrote:
hesnotthemessiah wrote:

If anyone can show me a plugin that comes close to what the TI can do, i will buy it. Cause the TI is way too pricey and I really dont like Its VST interface!!

A friend of mine who I produce with just bought a Ti in order to get something to complement the CW synths he has (including the Solaris which is very nice). I'll try to get him to chime in here for more details.

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:40 am

I got the TI from Eric at JRRShop, and he let me try it out for a while. I scrolled through the presets, and was pretty impressed whilst keeping in mind that effects can falsely add to the perception of a synth.

Nevertheless, the richness of the sounds, the musicality of the effects, and the fat filters set this thing in a class of its own.

Not surrendering any CW synths, particulary John Bowen's (respect). The Solaris is in every track that I write, in addition to the TI.

I care less about VST integration, so I'm biased to think that it's not so much of an issue. This thing is an instrument that lets you play it and get lost. Several hours pass in the blink on an eye.

Outboard gear plus CW sounds make for a strong combination.