ASIO Direct Monitoring

[fraz]

Hi,

Can the SFP do ASIO direct monitoring? - I figure it probably can because it's a damn good audio card. I have Cubase SX and have just been reading the manual about the various methods of monitoring.

From the point of view of recording I'm a novice so any useful info is apreciated. As far as my set up is geared at the moment I monitor form within Cubase.

On the big mixer I have in SCOPE (the old mixer) there is a monitor button which I have not used and it isn't connected to any ouput and up till now I just have the mixer in main mix but I would like to know hop to set up a monitor mix from within SFP and please go easy because this is something I know nothing about so please educate me...

[astroman]

SFP does only direct monitoring (in the sense of 'reasonable' latency free), regardless what you feed it. Reasonable because there is no such thing as processing in no time at all

If your monitors are connected to any of the system's outputs (analog, digital, adat, zlink) whatever you route/mix to that destination is 'directly monitored'.
There's no buffer (as in sequencer processing), every sample is fed immediately to the output device (if routed that way), except for a few samples delay if a special processing, like phase adjustment or lookahead functions is needed.

cheers, Tom

[fraz]

Thanks Astroman,

So, if everything is monitored directly no matter what I do, and the mixer is in main mix, and bearing in mind that the bigmixer has a monitor button on it, what is this for? and will I ever need to use it? - and if so in what types of situations?

[fraz]

I know I replied to Astroman but I would welcome any comments from anyone who has anything to comment on.

Please forgive any stupid questions due to a lack of understanding on certain subjects, I am learning... ...which is positive and I love my Creamware audio cards eventhough the learning curve is steep!

Thanks for your patience and understanding in advance...

Regards

[fraz]

SFP does only direct monitoring (in the sense of 'reasonable' latency free), regardless what you feed it. Reasonable because there is no such thing as processing in no time at all

If your monitors are connected to any of the system's outputs (analog, digital, adat, zlink) whatever you route/mix to that destination is 'directly monitored'.
There's no buffer (as in sequencer processing), every sample is fed immediately to the output device (if routed that way), except for a few samples delay if a special processing, like phase adjustment or lookahead functions is needed.

cheers, Tom

My monitoring (speakers) is currently done via the left / right out (analog)...(ASIO DEST)...Currently there is no external hardware mixer (analog or digital).

and...there is one ADAT where I can input the analog outs of a synth or two into the SFP mixer (currently the big mixer).

Probably asked this before... ...what is the difference between the control room out and the mix L / R out?...Is this maybe the difference bwtween the live room and the control room if you refer to a professional studio?

Again, if some of these questions are stupid, please let me know and explain why....thanks in advance.

Regards

[garyb]

the control room out is what the engineer listens to. the studio out is for the live room where the musicians are and the monitor out is for the headphones. the mix out is for the 2 track mixdown. if you lower ther volume on the control room out(or raise it), the mix out volume remains the same, so two track mixdowns aren't affected by the listening level. also, the control room out(and studio out), can monitor other things besides the mix, such as the monitor out, or an external 2 track playback(like a cd player)........

[fraz]

OK, monitor on the bigmixer is for a headphone mix.

The Control room, is where the misxing desk/engineer is...OK.

The mix L / R is for the 2 track mixdown like you said.

In my project currently I have a channel strip, previously I used the Dyna Mixer (but it won't load under SFP 4 which is another issue) connected from the mix L / R, then from the channel strip going into the asio and wave destination modules for recording.

One question is if I have 2 stereo asio sources do I have to have two stereo asio destinations?...or is it best to?

Also is there a better way to do the above?

[garyb]

asio destinations are the input jacks for your sequencer. you must have at least one stereo pair. i usually have a basic project with 10 inputs(asio dest meaning "going to the sequncer. asio is "audio sequencer input/output" or something similar...) and connect and disconnect as needed. actually, i use the stm2448. it has 8 record busses. i connect 8 and have 2 spares available and i'm ready for almost any type of session. just use whatever you need to make the work as easy as you need. there are times you'll want to record several midi instruments(scope or real) along with say, a vocal or a violin(or both). maybe you want to record a drumset and bass guitar, maybe it's just an acoustic guitar, just like with a multitrack tape recorder, you wire up the micpres(or mixer channels) to the appropriate input jacks.

likewise with the output jacks of the multitrack tape recorder(asio source). since the tape recorder(sequencer) you're using is virtual and it has it's own mixer, a few things can happen. the first is the reason that you must choose how many asio channels you will use(and why it's a good idea to have at least one extra stereo asio channel when starting) before opening the sequencer. when the sequncer is "forming"(opening), it looks at your project to see what kind and how many jacks to configure. the number of jacks can't be changed without closing the sequencer and then restarting it to register the change in the project(actually, with some sequencers there is another way, but...). of course you can connect and reconnect to those jacks(asio source/dest) as much as you please without restarting anything. the second thing that can happen is that you can get a stereo mix out of the sequencer. i usually have a basic project that has 4 stereo outputs from the sequencer(asio source, meaning "coming from the sequencer"). one pair for a stereo playback and one pair for the occasional need to stream out of the sequencer, for instance for using a vst effect live or playing a vst instrument live and then recording it(back through an asio dest channel), on an audio track.

when i'm mixing i open as many asio channels as tracks(with a couple extra, just in case) and send each track out individual asio source channels(output jacks from the multitrack). mixing in scope gives the best sound, if you have enough dsp, otherwise, i'd just use scope as the summing bus(using plugins in the sequencer). you can also use both vsts, dxs, and scope plugins using this method. any auxillary channles(mixer auxs) in the sequencer's mixer will also need to go out thier own asio outputs(called asio source, "from the sequencer") to be able to mix them properly.

since the asio channels take up dsp resources, you want to avoid using tons more than you need, if you have only a 3 or 6 dsp board.

probably more info than you need, but it seemed to be the time to just go ahead and type it...

[ChrisWerner]

Hm, we should start a beginner or first steps topic in scope study.
As this questions return regulary.

[fraz]

Thanks,

That gives me more info and is helpful. I actually have the nine DSP's Pulsar 2 and Power Sampler boards. Usually I don't have too many ASIO source and dedstination modules and I like the idea of using the sequencer output busses to mix in Scope as everything can be done separately which is good for individual processing.

When I first got Scope I used just the one stereo ouput/input from the sequencer but now I know how the Cubase bus system works this is preferable.

Currently any recording done at the moment is recorded one track at a time, maybe in the future I'll get a little more ambitous and attempt to do more!

The main question in my post before this one is if I have two stereo ASIO sources using four channels on the mixer is it essential to have two stereo ASIO destinations to match???...maybe the answer is yes if you are recording two stereo pairs at the same time for example...and if only recording one stereo pair then the answer maybe no...please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

It could be a good idea to have a beginners Scope study forum, I would appreciate that. In some ways I'm not a total beginner but as far as actual recording is concerned I am....

[fraz]

Hm, we should start a beginner or first steps topic in scope study.
As this questions return regulary.

Chris,

This is a great idea... ...I do have a baisc understanding of how some of the modules work and I can get a project done but as for a comprehensive understanding of the SFP this could only be achieved if you and some of the more experienced Pulsarians actually ran a Scope study forum. I'm in...

[hubird]

Usually I don't have too many ASIO source and dedstination modules

Maybe it's what you mean, but you only need one module, you can rightclick on the source module to change the number of ASIO channels, up to 64 (ASIO2).
Don't forget to (re-)open your sequencer after having done that!

About your main question: you can do like you want: combine tracks in your sequencer by routing the tracks' output to one ASIO bus, or, reverse, recording more tracks via one ASIO bus to one track, or record multi tracks ('multi-recording') to different sequencer tracks via more than one ASIO bus at the same time indeed.

[fraz]

Hi Hubird,

I didn't write it correctly, I do double click on the ASIO source/destination modules to increase the number of stereo pairs. With Cubase VST I could manage 32. not that I used 32 though. Now have Cubase SX with Windows XP but don't know if this will enable me to use 64 ASIO I/0...again, not that I would need this amount....

[garyb]

source and dest can be different numbers. just use what you need....

[fraz]

Hm, we should start a beginner or first steps topic in scope study.
As this questions return regulary.

Chris,

I have put a thread in the Scope Study forum about your suggestion. Are you serious about this???

best regards

[hubird]

if all starters would start to make nice posts about their discoveries about the software (possibly after having posted relevant questions in the forums) this would make sense, as the more experienced members will add additional information and details (they can't shut up anyway )

[garyb]

if it helps, you can copy my post.....

[fraz]

SFP does only direct monitoring (in the sense of 'reasonable' latency free), regardless what you feed it. Reasonable because there is no such thing as processing in no time at all

If your monitors are connected to any of the system's outputs (analog, digital, adat, zlink) whatever you route/mix to that destination is 'directly monitored'.
There's no buffer (as in sequencer processing), every sample is fed immediately to the output device (if routed that way), except for a few samples delay if a special processing, like phase adjustment or lookahead functions is needed.

cheers, Tom

Hi Tom, and anyone else who has any comments and advice...constructive please...thanks.

Been doing more of RTFM... ...Fogrive any naivety here or stupid questions but please explain if I do ask any...

I have Cubase SX.

From the manual there are three types of monitoring (correct me if wrong)...this is what you are about to record...right???

Option 1). Monitoring from within Cubase SX where the input signal is mixed with the audio playback, would this apply for 2 input / ouput audio cards only?

Option 2). External monitoring where you use an external mixer or a Scope mixer (which as far as Cuabse SX is concerned it is external...right???)...

Option 3). ASIO direct monitoring. As far as the Cubase SX manual is concerned there is a checkbox setting for this and if it is greyed out (as it is in my case) then either the Creamware card or it's driver isn't capable of direct ASIO monitoring.

All this taken into account I think I use option 2). I am not a levitating, firebreathing Pulsarian ( yet ) and may never be but I am learning and would like your comments and advice but please if you are to criticise me please do it constructively... ...thanks.

I don't work in a pro studio so I'm no recording expert so please explain things in laymans terms because there are certain things I struggle with but as i said above i'm learning.

Do any of you folks use sequencer effects (fx)?...or is it SFP fx all the way?

[hubird]

From the manual there are three types of monitoring (correct me if wrong)...this is what you are about to record...right???quote]
yes, direct monitoring is about how to monitor when recording

Option 1). Monitoring from within Cubase SX where the input signal is mixed with the audio playback, would this apply for 2 input / ouput audio cards only?

ASIO can only deal with one single 'client' (audiocard or whatever ASIO card), but is multi channel, depending of your VST channel settings, also when recording, if that is your cioncern

You choose the right option, monitoring 'external', as you don't have a latency free quality soundcard for nothing
good reading

[ScofieldKid]

Here's some light reading from the web The first is from SoundOnSound, so sorry if that one is not reachable:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr99/a ... etency.htm
http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles ... h_latency/
http://www.asio4all.com/

Here's a few more from SoundOnSound, again sorry if these aren't reachable links:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Sep02/a ... an0902.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr04/a ... sician.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/a ... sician.htm