a challenge to creamware ASB?

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:33 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/6578.html

Origin is a modular system loaded with modules extracted from Moog Modular, ARP 2600, CS-80, Minimoog and Prophet VS (for now) - you can combine these modules to create your own synth. It uses two Analog Devices TigerSHARC DSP processors that have more audio power than the newest multi core PC processors, apparently.

it's exacly the same idea, with more development.
ant a price way higher...

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:56 am

This proves that Arturia has been trying to compete directly with CreamWare all along with their soft synths. Fortunately for us, though they have good features, circuit-for-circuit they don't sound as good as CW's.

This thing Arturia is doing looks like a combo of the ASB boxes and Noah. It also makes Noah look cheap!

Well, I'd sooner get an ASB box than Origin any day.

If Arturia can port their x86-based synth to SHARC code, maybe InDSP can do the same thing in reverse and give Arturia a run for its money! MiniMax is way better than Arturia's MiniMoog!

Shayne

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:57 am

it's been mentioned under Arturia ASB in General Discussion
the idea is in fact pretty obvious
what - except hardware - do you want to sell in the PC software market ?

(in quantities)

the funny thing is that DSP have been told dead by the 'native CPU' world for a couple of years and now one DSP release follows the other (Liquid channel, Duende, Arturia...) - who's next ?

cheers, Tom

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:17 am

Shayne White wrote:... Fortunately for us, though they have good features, circuit-for-circuit they don't sound as good as CW's...

agreed, the devices I could install to demo didn't convince me either

but this circuit for circuit feature is complete BS - anyone with even the most humble knowledge about electronics can tell that an accurate processing (in realtime!) is already impossible with just a handful of parts - let alone a Moog Modular or a CS80 monster

so it ends in generalizing anyway - probably the 'function group' approach captures the instrument's character in a more convincing way.
Yet a circuit for ciruit approach is almost invaluable for the developer regarding efficiency - with 3 dozen such moduls you can 'model' almost any analog synth ever sold.
The accuracy concerns remain, in the analog world some dudes seem to be able to tell the difference between (f.e) 2 Marshall amps by the capacitor brand used...

it reminds me at a smart sentence from Greek tourism, where they are very proud to not have spoilt their marvellous landscapes by huge hotel blocks...
... we care about our environment reads just better than ... no buildings over 3 floors allowed due to earthquake danger...

cheers, Tom

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:14 pm

Shayne White wrote:This proves that Arturia has been trying to compete
This thing Arturia is doing looks like a combo of the ASB boxes and Noah. It also makes Noah look cheap! Well, I'd sooner get an ASB box than Origin any day.
Shayne

Looks like a good definition for this preview unit (an hybrid of ASB and NOAH).
By the way there are not that much differences between NOAH and ASB unit:
=> with the NOAH EX you could have a 4 part multitimbral unit
=> with the ASB you get the dedicated control surface but only monotimbral (so far but should be a good upgrade idea)

In fact, a multitimbral ASB would be great as I kind of miss the possibility to use for example several monophonic MINIMAX

The Origin just also looks like the second choice available for virtual modular DSP powered hardware synth (after Clavia Nord modular series).

Just imagine what a CW modular II/III rack could be (including all available other modules from adern, zarg and spaceF). A blind unit based on Klangbox hardware could be a way to test the market before designing a smart user interface (if ever possible).

CheerZ

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:36 pm

Musikmesse, the hell w/ NAMM.

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:19 am

Hi All,

Just returning from the NAMM show - I spent quite some time with the Origin...and the first thing it reminded me of was the PPG Realizer, mostly because of the way the knobs and buttons were arranged all around the display, plus the idea of many different types of emulations combinable in one box. (Axel Hartmann did the design of the Origin.)

At the show, it had 5 'templates' - the ARP 2600, Minimoog, CS-80, Prophet V, and Origin. (They may be able to add the Jupiter stuff in the future, depending on memory allocation). When not using the Origin template, you have the basic synths named just as you do in the Arturia VST plugins....but with the Origin template, you can create your own combinations completely! This was the most cool thing.
I had thought at times to try for something like the PPG Realizer again, but now Arturia has done it. Getting around the interface at first was a little challenging, but it worked well enough for having so much complexity of a modular system. The Origin template has a 5x6 matrix of 'slots' where you can load whatever modules you want, from all their different synth emulations. You can move the modules around, and connect them however you want, all done with the one control knob, which pushes in to select/activate the current item. I was wondering how to express the boundarys or limits of the 2 tigerSHARCS, because, of course, there is a finite amount of code space, and they do it with this matrix. There was no 'gas gauge' to know how much DSP power was being used as I added modules, so I suggested to them to add something like the DSP meter we have in Scope.

As for the sounds and alogorithms - their main sound designer told me he really felt the change from native code to tigerSHARC code improved the sound of their different algorithms and emulations. I'm not familiar enough with the software plugins to tell this, plus it's always hard to say when at the NAMM show, with so much sound going on around you. But if you are someone who has enjoyed using the Arturia plugins before, I think you will be quite pleased with this box - all in all, a pretty interesting box - a Creamware version in ASB format would definitely be possible, but for now, it's Arturia that has it.

-john b.

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:24 am

astroman wrote: the funny thing is that DSP have been told dead by the 'native CPU' world for a couple of years and now one DSP release follows the other (Liquid channel, Duende, Arturia...) - who's next ?

Yes, who?

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:30 pm

johnbowen wrote:
As for the sounds and alogorithms - their main sound designer told me he really felt the change from native code to tigerSHARC code improved the sound of their different algorithms and emulations. I'm not familiar enough with the software plugins to tell this, plus it's always hard to say when at the NAMM show, with so much sound going on around you. But if you are someone who has enjoyed using the Arturia plugins before, I think you will be quite pleased with this box - all in all, a pretty interesting box - a Creamware version in ASB format would definitely be possible, but for now, it's Arturia that has it.

-john b.

Well, as I've said before, Arturia's version of the MiniMoog isn't as good as CW's. So if moving to TigerSHARC chips improves the sound, that'll be a good thing -- for Arturia.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:50 pm

EDIT.... sorry, deleted for legal reasons.

husker · Post by **husker** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:09 pm

Perhaps you were influenced by his fondue set design

http://www.design-box.de/us/pd_samples.php

husker · Post by **husker** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:12 pm

yikes...same company did the Creamware logo design!

http://www.design-box.de/us/gd_samples.php

I wonder if they are designing some cool new Creamware box too...

(I suspect they weren't involved in the Klangbox design...)

edit: according to this they do/did product design for Creamware...hmmm

http://www.design-box.de/us/clients.php

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:07 am

scope4live wrote:Musikmesse, the hell w/ NAMM.

M3 ! M3 ! M3 !

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:03 am

Hi Mehdi,

Yes, Korg introduced the M3. I have to say, the general consensus was that , even though it uses the improved PCM playback algorithm of the OASYS (and should therefore sound decent), the cosmetic design is really ugly. All of this heavy, white plastic, tiny strips of 'wood' on the ends...
They promoted it as a smaller version of the OASYS, but I think this is really unfair (to the OASYS design team - John, I know you can't comment). From the naming, it would be better to think it's an M1 updated.
The idea is to have a removable control section, which is the same size as the Radias section, so you can swap one for the other on the smaller board, or have 2 sections on the longer keyboard version (the M3 and a Radias, or 2 of either). The center section can be angled or flat - I didn't see any variable mid-way points.

I will be very curious to see how it is received by the public.

john b.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:04 am

Hello John,
Yes I noticed the look is controversial (on karma lab forums - eventhough the majority likes it and seems to be really waiting for it) and was shocked myself the first time i saw it but in fact, it is pretty well done (I don't talk about oasys, because it's the kind of thing that will be out of reach forever to me).
Now you say it is plastic, which is disapointing (pics look like metal). But in the "reasonable" price range of workstations (compared to motif ES/XS (XS is XS-evelly disapointing), I think that it could be one the best machine ever made: karma inside. For sure, a TritonEx + karma software is the same (or better) at half the price of an M3. But still, in the "i give you the most i can" i think the M3 could be a success. And if you like arpegiators, that's clearly one of the best choice (karma)
I had an M1 long ago, and no, it's not comparable.
I've been looking at workstations again for a few monthes now, (i read all manuals of the fantoms, motifs, triton etc) and the m3 is really a good concept. It goes further than what other have been doing for years now.
As I think the roland fantoms is becoming a dead line (will see at Musikmess or summer namm), and the motif XS shows not big step compared to motif ES (it's even less good with the ridiculous 4 outputs) the M3 appears really innovative (except for the sounds, which seems to be Korg weak point)
Again, I mean in this price range and for what it should be used for (making music).
Origin: i saw it priced around 3000 USD ?? (2999) is this true ? if yes, i think it's not really direct competition for CWA (those cheap workstations could be). again, it is only my opinion (and i never been a fan of arturia sound and graphic interfaces (for me it's even the example of what you shouldn't do when it comes to GUIs but well, i'm only SpaceF

and this is only a personal opinion).

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:51 am

Yes, as a workstation product, it does give you a lot of assitance in creating things - especially in the drum pattern department now, and of course, the Karma arpeggio functions - all very advanced. I spoke with an ex-CW guy I saw there, and he was extremely enthusiastic about the M3, so maybe this will be quite the box to have (in fact, I have the impression that the European response was much more enthusiastic than the American response). Also, I'm afraid I'm not much of a 'workstation' guy, but Korg definitely knows this market., so....it could be quite popular!

john b.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:59 am

Myself, I wouldn't have been interested again by workstations if I didn't play gigs regularily (where bringing the computer, is just like ... forget it, as it is a heavy process and i may just break it one day).
Jimmy V can do it

One thing i find cool about the m3: you can put an alpha keyboard on one side, and a mouse on the other.... pretty cool on stage or home studio.

Anyway, i have to finsih some tracks with this awesome, almost 10 year old, scope board of mine

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:50 am

Shayne White wrote:This proves that Arturia has been trying to compete directly with CreamWare all along with their soft synths. Fortunately for us, though they have good features, circuit-for-circuit they don't sound as good as CW's.

german engineering ....

no seriously the Origin is 2000€
an ASB is 400€
a Scope Pro is 1500€ and more flexible than a Origin....

so they all are in differnet leagues.
and soundwise I would always take the CW product.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:05 pm

I do grow weary @ times, and bitch and complain when loading, etc. But that stops abruptly when SFP / Giga starts up and I hear my Bowen / SpaceF combinations through Barbetta 31C's w/ stereo sub, and Pro 3t rotary cabinet !!

In My Next Life, I Wanna Be A Ho,......

DSP ADD!CT · Post by **DSP ADD!CT** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:47 pm

arturia jupiter 8v......

shame they got the license from roland instead of CW.
no jupiter8 asb

makes no sense to me cause yamaha is highly involved in arturia.