Dynamic EQ

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:01 pm

Hello!

Are there any Dynamic EQs for Scope? (Preferably free ones)... If not.. Please, remind me how to make one using an EQ, a Compressor and side-chaining... I would use ISON and VinCo.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:31 pm

well, try MCCYRANO's MOVEEQ in the devices section - I had only a short try and find it a bit fiddly to operate ... I didn't look at the documemtation which is probably highly recommended...

but it was able to blow my sh*tty groovebox to an amazing punch

it's a very good device

cheers, Tom

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:45 pm

Ya sou Tom!

I ve just downloaded it.. It looks very good but very complex too.. I ll have to read the manual... Except this one, is there any other dynamic eq that is simpler to operate?

And anyway... could someone remind me how to make a dynamic eq with sidechained equalizer and compressor? Thanks

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:55 pm

you can do it by splitting a signal to defined frequency ranges.

For example:

connect an audio source to 4 mixer channels at the same time

create a frequency range on each channel by using low and hi cut filters (example: ch 1 hi cut @ 300 hz, ch2 low cut @ 301 hz and hi cut @ 1000 hz, ch4 low cut @ 1001 hz)

then you can insert on each mixer channel a vinco compressor with sidechain enabled

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:31 pm

Hi,
Isn't that a multiband compressor instead ?
regards,
DIMITRIOS

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:50 pm

rodos1979 wrote:Hello!

Are there any Dynamic EQs for Scope? (Preferably free ones)... If not.. Please, remind me how to make one using an EQ, a Compressor and side-chaining... I would use ISON and VinCo.

hi rodos,

you can download the demo of the DAS DYNPARA M/S, Stereo 4 bands dynamic parametric EQ.

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/products.html

it also have Mid / Side functions ... but if you don't need M/S, you can use it as a "real" dynamic parametric EQ !!!

It will soon be for sale on CW eshop ... just try the demo for now, sure you will enjoy !

cheers,
olive

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:53 pm

http://www.planetz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=dynpara

here you will have a full explanation of how it works,
cheers,
olive

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:25 am

musurgio wrote:Hi,
Isn't that a multiband compressor instead ?
regards,
DIMITRIOS

yes,
it's a multiband compressor with sidechain control over each of the bands.
It's not that different from dynamic eq's.

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:48 am

djmicron wrote:
musurgio wrote:Hi,
Isn't that a multiband compressor instead ?
regards,
DIMITRIOS
yes,
it's a multiband compressor with sidechain control over each of the bands.
It's not that different from dynamic eq's.

HI,

It IS different !!! very different, mainly in the Q FACTOR settings !!!!

vith a dynamic parametric eq, you can set up your q factor precisely ... not possible wtih a simple cross over or even a low/high pass !!!

just follow the link above, every thing is explained

cheers
olive

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:56 am

it is possible by using the mixer configuration that i have explained.
Just put a 1 point parametric eq after the filtered signal.

Regards

p.s. i'm not writing against your device

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:12 am

djmicron wrote:it is possible by using the mixer configuration that i have explained.
Just put a 1 point parametric eq after the filtered signal.

Regards

p.s. i'm not writing against your device

sorry djm but i definitly think that you didn't understand everything in the dyn para :
if you insert aq 1 point eq, you will precise the q factor of the "command signal" !!! the one that command the sidechain in but you won't precise the "treated (filtered) signal that will be filtered with the "crossover/filters" slope ...

just try it ! you will see quickly !

p.s. i'm not writing against your device

no pb djm !!! just try it ! and compare both solutions ,
cheers
olive

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:07 am

I ve downloaded both MOVEQ+ and DYNPARA and both devices are great... I am still not very sure how MOVEQ+ works though (the manual is great, it is just that I am too stupid!

).. How much is your device going to cost Sonolive?

P.S. Djmicron, thank you for the explanation

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:34 pm

sonolive wrote:
djmicron wrote:it is possible by using the mixer configuration that i have explained.
Just put a 1 point parametric eq after the filtered signal.

Regards

p.s. i'm not writing against your device
sorry djm but i definitly think that you didn't understand everything in the dyn para :
if you insert aq 1 point eq, you will precise the q factor of the "command signal" !!! the one that command the sidechain in but you won't precise the "treated (filtered) signal that will be filtered with the "crossover/filters" slope ...

just try it ! you will see quickly !

p.s. i'm not writing against your device
no pb djm !!! just try it ! and compare both solutions ,
cheers
olive

i know about what you are saying,
but the point is not "how to build your device", but it is "how to build a multiband compressor/dyn eq without having it"

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:30 pm

djmicron wrote:...connect an audio source to 4 mixer channels at the same time
...(freq split desc)...
then you can insert on each mixer channel a vinco compressor with sidechain enabled

I may have overlooked something obvious, otherwise this is (imho) just the illustration of the principle and in no way intended to be used

the frequency bands will overlap significantly (due to limited steepness of the filter) and hence interact with each other.
On SFP mixers you additionally have to deal with those hard to predict sample delays - signal runtime with 4 identical parallel signals really matters.

cheers, Tom

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:02 pm

astroman wrote:
djmicron wrote:...connect an audio source to 4 mixer channels at the same time
...(freq split desc)...
then you can insert on each mixer channel a vinco compressor with sidechain enabled
I may have overlooked something obvious, otherwise this is (imho) just the illustration of the principle and in no way intended to be used

the frequency bands will overlap significantly (due to limited steepness of the filter) and hence interact with each other.
On SFP mixers you additionally have to deal with those hard to predict sample delays - signal runtime with 4 identical parallel signals really matters.

cheers, Tom

yes it's the principle concept,
but the overlap is not significant if you use 48 db (or more) filters (try it)

the sample delays can be caused by more than one factor and on my test (with stm 2448) it can be used as a mastering effect unit without noticeable phase issues.

I did this test to replicate some analog studio trick we did in the old 80's and the result is better than i can expect, but i know that you are astroman and i'm micron

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:20 am

well, I tried it with CWA stock filters - and that wasn't a very convincing sound...
but you anticipated that Rodos had the ISON - so I stand corrected regarding the usabilty of your sketch

in fact I was surprised how well it performed.

I actually left the compression part completely, just compared the multibands versus the individual signal and in that context even 48db bands did color the sound heavily.
Yet the ISON (filter) bands are very convenient to adjust and setup for a pleasing sound, so who cares about math ?
I found it even more convincing to set the inner bands to overlap intentionally by using the less steep 18dB version or use a different steepness on various sides.
With a mixture of the afforementioned methods the original sound character could be approached quite close, adding some (not unwelcome) presence to it.

In any case the setup process was a fairly smooth one, considering the complexity of the possibilities. It allowed anything from keeping the basic sound to entirely FX mangle it.
Add the automation possibilities (offset and HP/LP sweep) the ISON filter offers, it's a versatile tool - not to forget it 'sounds' excellent.

as a bottomline you deserve a big thank you for reminding at the creative possibilities that opens as soon as one gets his butt up to use what's already in the toolbox

...though this shouldn't stop deveopers from pushing the limits further

cheers, Tom

ps: imho the application of a compressor (or whatever effect) in the channel inserts is a no-brainer, once the 'individualized' bands add up to a pleasing unit (in sound context), anything is possible then.
On the other hand if this 'unit' cannot be achieved the setup may serve 'only' as a special FX thing, which of course may be useful on it's own

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:31 am

Hi Astroman,
Somewhere I lost it as what are you using exactly with what...
CaN YOU please describe exactly what you did ?
Regards,
Dimitrios

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 am

incredibly funny post astro ...

good luck for your future masterings with this kind of setup !!!

"pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ..."
trying a translation :
why to do simple while it can be complicated

why don't u simply try it with optimaster ???

cheers,
olive

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:14 am

musurgio wrote:...
CaN YOU please describe exactly what you did ?...

no problem, I just reproduced micron's setup of 4 parallel mono mixer channels (for multi-banding) with an ISON filter in each channel and fed a more or less 'boring' drumloop parallel to each channel.
It's unavoidable that the 'border regions' of 2 neighbour bands interact with each other and it gave an unpleasing result with the stock filters (imho), but the ISON filter not only achieved a pleasing sound - it also was pretty straight to setup.

so the mixer had 5 identical inputs from a single source, 1 unaltered reference channel and 4 'band filtered', the outer bands alternatively hi/lo cut (which I liked more).
I compared by muting/solo-ing the reference channel, which was loudness-adjusted to the sum of the multiband (nothing else on the mixer).

I assumed the most difficult part would be an individual band control that still retained the original sound in it's 'startpoint' for the actual task of dynamically equing/compressing.
For a drumloop this doesn't matter much (as you often want strange sounds), but for an individual instrument a basic sound integrity is essential imho.
Since this is a solid foundation it doesn't matter too much if one adds dynamics to the EQ (as originally requested) or anything else - so I intentionally left that out.

I just have to admit that I overlooked what a valuable tool the ISON filter (that comes with the respective EQ) is - it's for sure one of those frequency manglers that truely deserve the attribute musical, and it derserves a bit more attention, if I may say so...

cheers, Tom

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:23 am

sonolive wrote:incredibly funny post astro ...
good luck for your future masterings with this kind of setup !!!
...
why don't u simply try it with optimaster ???

because I have the STW Master Comp

who said this was in any way related to mastering at all ?
micron gave an example of a certain processing strategy - I assumed (when I read it) that it wouldn't work at all, which I could verify (for my humble ears) in a first attempt with stock devices.
I overlooked that Rodos had the ISON, so I repeated it after micron mentioned the 48 dB
I was surprised how well (on the sh*tty source I mentioned) it performed (contrary to all theory predictions btw...) and I discovered a few creative possibilities that I had overlooked.
That's all

cheers, Tom

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