question about levels
question about levels
i use an api A2d on the spdif out for its pre's and atod converters and i find that i want to push the hardware to get close to -.1 levels on the final mix like the optimaster does, but i want to use my outboard comp/limiter to do it, so that i have a nice analog sound, but i find its hard to do it, anyone else use another method besides digital for optimization?
don't push the digital level too close to 0 dB, as most (digital) consumer gear cannot handle it properly.
Expensive studio gear can, so engineers drive it to the max and us regular folks end with a clicking or distorted CD...
google for intersample overshoots as my experience with that stuff is restricted to the afforementioned 'wtf can't they get a level properly with a several $100k studio ???'
cheers, Tom
Expensive studio gear can, so engineers drive it to the max and us regular folks end with a clicking or distorted CD...
google for intersample overshoots as my experience with that stuff is restricted to the afforementioned 'wtf can't they get a level properly with a several $100k studio ???'
cheers, Tom
digital opti?, looses sweet highs
seems our cw's digital opti does it all, its just that some gear is very 'musical', and is a good addition to cw, so i would like to go outboard for the last chain,... however i don't like to slam my outboard comp/limiter so hard so the needle is in the red all the time, to 'guess' at -0.1db.If i could believe that my finished a to d conversion is preservable and pass it thru my 'transparent' optimaster , ok, that would be a good thing, but i hear the differences in the highs , one is sweet (just thru the api gr and spdif to vdat in cw), and one is not 'sweet' in the highs (thru the optimaster before vdat recording and after spdif out of the api A2D converter.
Re: digital opti?, looses sweet highs
Overcompression is one of the nastiest things for music, it sucks the life and the space out of it.....Wired wrote:......... and one is not 'sweet' in the highs (thru the optimaster before vdat recording and after spdif out of the api A2D converter.
I used Optimaster for my CD mastering, and not with excessive settings, and it really didn't need anything else, the sound came out airy and spacious.
I'd suggest to be very careful with compression, too high levels and many conversions, all of it has to be optimized.
Read what guru engineer Bruce Swedien has to say about
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost ... ostcount=2
and believe me, his stuff sounds terrific.
The definition of what is "red" in digital audio varies a bit and is related to the amount of samples that over-shoot. Generally, anything below 3 samples is in-audiable I believe. The best gear lights up at first clipped sample. So if your A/D lights red now and then at extreme peaks you will probably be fine.
Red is ok as long as it doesn't happen regulary.
Red is ok as long as it doesn't happen regulary.
that's a reasonable assumption - yet even if you extend the tolerance so not a single sample crosses the (say) -0.3 dB border, your playback gear (e.g. CD player) will calculate a loudness curve that effectively clips in a very nasty way, if 2 of those 'almost' hot samples are within a certain distance on the time line.
cheers, Tom
cheers, Tom
yo ,
i'm one of those who wants to make better sound with too much compression and i think that this is not good idea at all,
it's hard to stick with best solution about compression, cause we're making different styles of music, but anyway,
should i avoid compression for each single track ?
let me say , kick + bass, middle tones and hihats ?
and
use compression just at final mix, like with optimaster ?
and also
is it good to use mostly low-cuts to set frequency for each instrument
(kick around 40-50hz, bass 70-80hz and so on...)
what frequency should be used for middle tones and hihats and when to use
hi-cuts,
when i'm making track i think i'm missing middle part to be more effective and kick and bass are sounding too much....
i know , exercise makes master at the end.........
matej
i'm one of those who wants to make better sound with too much compression and i think that this is not good idea at all,
it's hard to stick with best solution about compression, cause we're making different styles of music, but anyway,
should i avoid compression for each single track ?
let me say , kick + bass, middle tones and hihats ?
and
use compression just at final mix, like with optimaster ?
and also
is it good to use mostly low-cuts to set frequency for each instrument
(kick around 40-50hz, bass 70-80hz and so on...)
what frequency should be used for middle tones and hihats and when to use
hi-cuts,
when i'm making track i think i'm missing middle part to be more effective and kick and bass are sounding too much....
i know , exercise makes master at the end.........
matej
-
hubird
producers divided up the audible frequency range in many areas, each with it's own function or 'risk'.
Don't have a browser link for you tho, search for producersrecording sites, like http://www.studiorecordingengineer.com/ ... _tips.html.
It's hard to give universal rules, I always try to give every instrument his own frequency accent, with overlays carefully tuned.
Bass and kick: I would opt for kick peaking at 80Hz, basssynth below that somewhere, but that could be different depending on style.
In my latest uploaded track I had to cut the highs of the hihats rather much, to keep them away from the highs on the other instruments which have filtermoves to the highs and would eat the hats, to say so.
You always think, ah, let's get fresh and ultra fine hats...well, not
So, I'm afraid I'm not of much help.
About lowcuts, check out how much you can cut the lows of any part without loosing essential information of that part in the mix.
You get a cleaner sound and better overall compression
About compression: you can sub-compress related tracks by first group then to a grouptrack, like bass/kick group, hats group etc.
This way you can 'fix' the way you want the grouped tracks work together before applying mastering effects.
Be carefull to not overdo, mostly I use moderate settings when subcompressing and thelike, mastering compression is meant to glue all tracks together and needs workspace left.
If a track has real loud spikes like a synth with filtermovements at hi Q-settings you better use a limiter, as it doesnt change the internal volume ratios of the track.
cheers.
Don't have a browser link for you tho, search for producersrecording sites, like http://www.studiorecordingengineer.com/ ... _tips.html.
It's hard to give universal rules, I always try to give every instrument his own frequency accent, with overlays carefully tuned.
Bass and kick: I would opt for kick peaking at 80Hz, basssynth below that somewhere, but that could be different depending on style.
In my latest uploaded track I had to cut the highs of the hihats rather much, to keep them away from the highs on the other instruments which have filtermoves to the highs and would eat the hats, to say so.
You always think, ah, let's get fresh and ultra fine hats...well, not
So, I'm afraid I'm not of much help.
About lowcuts, check out how much you can cut the lows of any part without loosing essential information of that part in the mix.
You get a cleaner sound and better overall compression
About compression: you can sub-compress related tracks by first group then to a grouptrack, like bass/kick group, hats group etc.
This way you can 'fix' the way you want the grouped tracks work together before applying mastering effects.
Be carefull to not overdo, mostly I use moderate settings when subcompressing and thelike, mastering compression is meant to glue all tracks together and needs workspace left.
If a track has real loud spikes like a synth with filtermovements at hi Q-settings you better use a limiter, as it doesnt change the internal volume ratios of the track.
cheers.