scope and hardware mixers

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:00 am

which is the best solution if i want to have a hardware mixer with many channels connected with scopes i/os?
analog or digital should i choose?
working with digital mixers means i have use syncplate?
what about controlling scope from hardware controller?
i am confused because there are many mixers available but i would like to have one that works best and tested combined with scopes environment.

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:09 am

It depends on what i/o's you have available on you're scope setup. Also on whether you prefer the sound of an analog desk. I use 2x Yamaha 01V's each with adat connection to the scope system. It works great and can also be used as a midi controller for the Scope mixer. They're going cheap on Ebay too

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:10 am

Oh and it syncs up over adat, so you don't need the syncplate.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:19 am

i've got the scope professional plus
and the pulsar2 classic

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:34 am

it all depends on taste.

my personal preference is without a doubt, an analog mixer. but in order to enjoy analog mixing you need the following:

1)great converters - i warmly suggest the RME, and it works excelent with pulsar, or the A16-Ultra which in my opinion is the best money value on the market. i have done some A/B testing with the A16 and RME fireface, and the differences were very mild in comparison to other converters. i decided to go for the rme not just becouse of the slightly better sound, but also becouse i needed the preamps, and control knob.

2)a very good mixer that has the charecter to suit you. my own wet dream is the VTC, having fallen in love with their honey like eq, their super clean valve preamps, and their vintage looks. but i would vote for any 70's-80's yamaha or soundcraft mixers (the brown transformer based ones). Valis owns a mixer thats very well suited for d&b, i dont remember the firm now. the point is that a mixer will change your mixing completely, and yoursound aswell so be prepaired.

3) good outboard effects, you can never have enough of those. it is possible to just do the summing on the mixer, but if thats the case you can just buy an analog summing bus and continue to mix in digital.

i love digital mixers. and i have 3 gr8 mixers - scope, rme, logic.
i dont see the point in getting another one, and if its just for the hands on control you can always get a mackie controller. but its just me. i can see people using its preamps and effects as an extention. i just dont need it.

hope i didnt just confuse you more, Peace!

[ This Message was edited by: ReD_MuZe on 2006-08-28 07:36 ]

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:46 am

objectively, i don't see any reason to usa an analog or digital mixer coupled to scope environment...

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:51 am

So you've got 32 adat i/o's. In that case if you're going for an analogue desk you'll want an adat convertor like the a16 ultra. Or maybe a cheaper option from fostex or behringer. The Alesis AI-3 convertors are cheap second hand.

If you're going for the digital option then you can have up to 32 i/o's between Scope and mixer. Like I say the 01v works fine for me. A friend uses a pair of Spirit 328 digital desks with his Scope Setup. Each one has 16 adat i/o's along with the 16 analogue channels, good sounding EQ, built-in Lexicon effects...Nice mixers

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:58 am

On 2006-08-28 07:46, bosone wrote:
objectively, i don't see any reason to usa an analog or digital mixer coupled to scope environment...

Agreed, you could just buy the adat convertors and plug straight into the Scope mixer.

[ This Message was edited by: sharc on 2006-08-28 08:00 ]

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:45 am

Or you could get a direct Mic-to-ADAT converter like Mackie's Onyx 800R and bypass mixers altogether...

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:26 am

Good Idea Shayne. I heard that for the first time a month ago at the studio. They use it as a drum submixer some times. Great sounding pres. too.

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:23 am

On 2006-08-28 07:46, bosone wrote:
objectively, i don't see any reason to usa an analog or digital mixer coupled to scope environment...

Since when is objectivity a parameter in making music?

no realy. making music with an analog mixer will give you a diferent result for sure. not only the result will change but the whole proccess of mixing and working on your material. if you feel you want something more or something else than what you have now, thats a good reason.

basicaly you can use an maudio card with cooledit to create amaizing music. objectively you dont need scope. subjectively, well thats a completely different story.

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:29 pm

I used to have a ramsa DA7 hooked up to scope (24 i/o via adat) before I reluctantly had to sell most of my gear. The pre-amps in it are top notch. It's a very nice sounding (and well respected) desk. Should be able to get them pretty cheap 2nd hand now.

[ This Message was edited by: bassdude on 2006-08-28 16:30 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:16 pm

I still use my ancient Yamaha DMP7, QX-1, and TX816 years after they were supposedly obselete. Believe me guys, there is no blue book for musical gear. I had great teachers growing up. That taught me to save, save save, and never throw your old bike, and baseball glove away, ever! Well it's the best advice I ever heard. I still have my ancient ARP 2600S, Rhodes, D6, ARP String, and many other hardware FX and MacIntosh tube power amps. I find myself using some of the stuff in the studio, and live work. Right now the DMP7, and TX,QX are the sequencing and sound sources for my hussies. Whatever it takes to keep the ideas and music flowing. As they say in the States, the show must go on. I have one major regret I shall never forget. While growing up most kids don't think about what they are going to do for their children and preparing for those days. I wished I would have never sold my baseball card collection. I had signed cards from Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, and even some old Lou Gerhig rookie cards. As these could have bought several Scope Pros now, I sold them 4 950 USD in 1974 as I thought they were going to call my number for service in Vietnam. Well at least I bought and paid cash for my Rhodes which I still have. But my 10 year old son could have paid for his college 8 years from now, go figure. The Japanese actually fly to the states to buy and ship Cadillacs, and Harleys, but they will spend every last dime on baseball cards. Damn, we use to take clothes pins and attach them to our front and rear bicycle frames to hold the baseball cards in place so they would make that loud buzzing noise when you fly downhill and the spokes rip 'em up. That is why I won't allow my son to throw anything away. He has had the same PS2, and Xbox for several years, and now the PSP vrs. 1.5 with all the mods, and GIG sticks, with over 100 transferred DVD's, and of course the consumer version of the Ultimate Ears custom earpiece with 2 way drivers bi-amped in stereo. Hell if I have to, I will figure out a way to use the PSP at one of my rehersals. I only need to think about the old black bluesmen I grew up watching, and see them make wonderful music on their 20 dollar guitars, that usually humbles me as I easily think I have to have a certain instrument or plug to play live, when actually all I have to do is play.

There Is Nothing Wrong With Conservatism,

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:57 am

On 2006-08-28 07:46, bosone wrote:
objectively, i don't see any reason to use an analog or digital mixer coupled to scope environment...

In use with Scope, there's very little difference between a good digital desk & an AD/DA convertor apart from the fact that the desk will give you an abundance of 'hands on' features (too many to list) which a convertor doesn't have.

One of the nicest benefits of sub-mixing with a real desk is the difference in timing that a logical & labelled interface providing good hands on control brings. General purpose midi controllers controlling a virtual mixer don't provide anywhere near the same live mixing experience imho.

It's worth noting that a good quality digital mixer can also be a very good clock source.

IMO the best 'bang for buck' digital desk second hand at the moment is the Spirit Digital 328, which is an extrordinary piece of kit for 500-600 quid (approx' 800 euro) I've played around with one & they are VERY nice desks which are ooozing with pro quality features suited to integration with Scope.

[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-08-30 07:39 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:26 am

thanks guys, i am getting into point... slowly.
i am confused about the way of how to combine these machines.
lets say i get a digital mixer.
how should i combine it with scopes mixer and with sequencers(nuendo) mixer.
i see 3 mixers here!

forgive me if i am that simple. i just want to make a good and "correct" purchase.
consider that my intention is to combine live instruments and pc work as well.

_________________
ELVISLIVES

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2006-08-30 12:27 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:36 am

If you don't want 3 mixers, then don't use one in Scope - just connect all sources (ASIO sources, synth outs etc) directly to outputs. You cannot eliminate the mixer in the sequencer, but just leave all faders at 0 dB.

Leper · Post by **Leper** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:29 pm

I use an Alesis AI3 ad/da converter. Handy little thing, doesn't take up much room (1U) and sends a nice clear signal to my Pulsar 2 Plus via ADAT lightpipe. I have 4 pieces of stereo hardware going into it, routed straight into the Dynamixer on scope. The outputs I have hooked up to my hardware sampler, so I can immediately sample scope synths, and then play them back without touching any cables.

I think I may get another one.. unless Creamware's A16 is better for whatever reason.

I must say though, a midi faderbox might be handy for hands-on mixing.. might be a more enjoyable experience than using a mouse.

_________________
Witek Radomski
Innovation is my Inspiration!

[ This Message was edited by: Leper on 2006-08-30 14:31 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Leper on 2006-08-30 14:31 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:50 pm

I am involved in an experiment with my sponsor, Ultimate Ears, and a 3rd party developer 4 SFP in an experiment to use and sell custom built DAW's which would house custom built FOH / Monitor mixers in SFP 4 specific use with wireless, in your ear solutions, that are 3- way, bi-amped, kick ass monitors. These will be a way to eliminate the need for FOH engineer, and Monitor Man, which usually are rather expensive. The solutions could contain various room settings for specific gigs, and other projects would include sub mixing, etc. I happen to love, and miss FOH, and Monitor men at my gigs. But many groups playing small venue could benefit from the savings, especially if they have an FOH guy set up everything at each gig once, then let the band recall these engagements as projects. Les Jardin Disco, the RA. etc.,etc., session during private strippers party, my personal favorite.
Would appreciate any criticisms. or ideas benefiting this endeavor. Please, be cruel, as you know the CEO and 3rd party developers will be in their critiqueing.

Jimmy V. / scope4live

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-08-30 17:51 ]

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:49 pm

On 2006-08-30 12:26, ARCADIOS wrote:
thanks guys, i am getting into point... slowly.
i am confused about the way of how to combine these machines.
lets say i get a digital mixer.
how should i combine it with scopes mixer and with sequencers(nuendo) mixer.
i see 3 mixers here!

Simple. You don't use the Nuendo mixer. The scope mixers for mixdown. The "Hardware digital" mixer is used during recording. You send directs into scope and setup headphone mixes for the band.

[ This Message was edited by: bassdude on 2006-08-30 20:51 ]