Can I get the same pci performance with a magma box?

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:24 am

Hi all

I recently got the chance to catch a Magma 4 Slot chassis with the PCI-Host card AND the cardbus card for a really good price. So I bought it... silly me

BECAUSE:
How can I get the same f***ing PCI performance with the Magma connected to my Computer (not Notebook) like when the cards are installed directly in my computer's pci slots?

I've couple of scope projects with 90% dsp load with a scope and a pulsar II and eighter STW Ambient or Plate used. I can't get any of the STW devices to work with these projects when the cards are in the magma chassis

Even if I reduce the projects by removing 2 Masterverbs I always get the "PCI capacity reached" message. I also tried the STW Lite ore STW pci versions, same effect

So please, any help is really appreciated. I'll send you a box of beer for a working solution

thanx in advance
Roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-06-02 10:25 ]

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:26 am

no, the magma will not give the same pci performance.

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:35 am

garyb,

thanx, but: no beer for you at all

aarghh, what a shame! stupid me... this comes when missing to do the research job before buying...

next question: which of the STW plugs uses the smallest pci bandwith? The lite or the pci version?

thanx
roman

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:52 am

Ok, did the masterverb test. here are the results:

Scope + Pulsar II in Magma: 8 Masterverbs
Scope + Pulsar II in PC: 15 Masterverbs

So it seems the PCI capacity with the magma box is only about 50% of the performance in my pc.

Please, don't tell me this is the normal behaviour!!

greez
Roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-06-02 10:53 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:47 am

That would be bad news, for you but also concidering the newer macs with the higher voltage slots

PS. away untill tuesday

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:48 am

That would be bad news, for you but also concidering the newer macs with the higher voltage slots

PS. away untill tuesday

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:12 am

On 2006-06-02 10:52, katano wrote:
Ok, did the masterverb test. here are the results:

Scope + Pulsar II in Magma: 8 Masterverbs
...

there must be something else driving the STW verrbs nuts, as I have 2 Pulsar Ones that cannot do more than 5 Masterverbs (under no circumstances) due to PCI bandwidth.
But I can have the A100 or P100 (in any version, but not simulataneously) and a little bandwidth left for 1 Masterverb or Echo3 or so.
Did you try higher latency ?

cheers, tom

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:30 am

Katano - it's better with some PCMCIA controllers than others. Personally when I was using a Magma system I couldn't fault the performance, but I did go easy on memory-intensive stuff like samplers. The STW verbs do use a lot of delay lines (read: PCI<->memory activity).

There could be some interplay with certain combinations of devices with a lot of software I/O set up. If the projects are important enough, I'd recommend re-building the projects on the Magma system from scratch, making it more economical on resources wherever possible.

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:56 am

astroman:

i think you can't compare the generation 1 boards with the generation 2 boards in case of pci performance if i remember well.

As I said before, my projects are really big, 90-95% of 21 DSP's used. I have 2 Masterverbs, 1 P100, 24 ASIO-2 channels (24bit), and loads of effects in the stm2448 such as multiple instances of vinco, gates, 2 spl transient designer and attacker, 2 ducking delays and not to forget the mastering que with bx_digital, psyQ, Optimaster and the Analyzer from wolf.

Yes, i can get an instance eighter of A100 or P100 work, but only 'till I start cubase and the asio2 driver loads, then i got the pci limit reached message... btw. higher latency doesn't work...

darkrezin:

I'm not talking about a magma chassis with the PCMCIA-Cardbus Adaptor rather than the PCI-PCI Adaptor! ok, i have both adaptors, but these tests are all done with the PCI to PCI variant. btw the phenomenon with the cardbus card is exactly the same (i have a superfast Dell Precision M70 with TI Cardbus). I thought the pci performance MUST be better with the pci-to-pci variant, cause we all know the pcmcia issues...

You're right about the software i/o's. I use 24 ASIO2-24bit channels for cubase. Submixing in cubase and group drums or whatever is definitively not what i want.

Fact is that in my cheapo Dell 5000 PC, this Project runs smooth and fast, never had any issues, working on 3ms latency is no prob. BUT with the f***ing Magma chassis, PCI performance is reduced by 50%

cheers
Roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-06-02 13:01 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:22 pm

Hi Katano, it would seem that the best magma solution is possibly a single slot version running a Scope Pro. If you have both PCI & PCMCIA adapters, maybe it's worth trying the PCMCIA with a recently recommended laptop for magma. That would cost money if you don't already have the laptop though, so it's maybe best to avoid that

I'm only suggesting that, because someone on the forum recently announced quite blistering performance with a single slot magma & Sony Vaio combo, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, it looks like your best option would be to sell the 4 slot fecker & buy a 1 slot version (if you're determined to get magma'd that is)

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:42 pm

thanks shroomz, but...

I have a superfast Dell Precision M70 NOTEBOOK with TI Cardbus, please read above

I could not go with less than 21 dsp's. thats wy i bought the 4slot magma, and thats why i bought a 3rd card a few days ago (which will be in my mailbox soon). then i'll have a 36 dsp system

And i need that dsp power. the initial idea was a "dual system". I'd like to connect the magma to my pc in the studio and aditionally I also like to connect the magma to my precision M70 notebook. If it would work, it were the perfect solution for my needs! but as it seems, it doesn't...

cheers
Roman

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:16 pm

On 2006-06-02 12:56, katano wrote:
...i think you can't compare the generation 1 boards with the generation 2 boards in case of pci performance if i remember well...

yes, that's why I mentioned it - you have twice my 'oldies' bandwidth in your Magma, but cannot get a single P100 and a Masterverb, strange...

my guess would be the Analyzer, the Delays are also relevant
not sure about the number of Asio channels - someone once mentioned they'd be rather humble in comparison to the delay lines in reverbs.
... added 24 Asio2-32-64 channels, an A100 and a Masterverb - it's close to the PCI limit as I had to kick out the BassAmp (due to it's reverb) to make it run.
The A100 is more stress on the bus than the P100 btw

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-06-02 14:29 ]

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:56 pm

Tom,

appreciate your testings!

Did you start cubase or the sequencer you usually work with after setting up 24 ASIO channels? Because they only become active/use pci bandwith when cubase is started.

i got my project to work, reduced about one masterverb. but without starting cubase. if i start it, i got the overflow... and without cubase, there's no music

cheers
Roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-06-02 15:02 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:20 am

thanks for pointing this out - I assumed the asio channel would allocate it's resources as soon as added to the project

in fact when routing my inputs first to asio destination and then back to the mixer via asio source the A100 didn't load anymore - as you predicted...
...ich 'abe uber'aupt keine sequencer

I use VDAT for recording and cut (what's worth the effort) with Triple - most is trashed anyway - like the monks drawing mandalas into the sand and sweeping them away when finished...
a pathetic metaphore for not enough time (or was it talent ?)

cheers, Tom

katano · Post by **katano** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:06 am

tom,

yesterday, i thought for a sec about using vdat cause no asio is needed. till today i was to shy to give it a try, the handling looks not as comfortable as cubase...

cheers
roman

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:33 am

Katano, I think 24 ASIO channels is just not viable on Magma. IMHO you'll have to either change your working methods a little, or abandon the Magma.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:33 am

VDAT certainly doesn't fit a workflow context for highly commercial stuff with deadlines and last minute modifications, or if the client doesn't like this or that part or simply changed his/her mind, etc - or projects have to be interchanged (Logic, Cubase, ProTools).

but (for me) it's the only recorder that can capture a complex setup running live with just one single press of a button - and it perfectly captures what's monitored.

I'd never continue with the original takes, let alone open them in a second app (as some folks do) - I don't trust the file system enough, but that's personal paranoia.

Anyway, disk space is elcheapo today, so a copy more or less doesn't really matter, and it's quickly done... remember rewinding tapes ?

The only thing I dislike is that people who used it with the Adat BRC said it wasn't too reliable, otherwise this would be a very nice solution for interaction with the 'tapes'.

It needs a certain way of working, but since you got it anyway it's worth a try.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-06-03 05:35 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:39 am

Once you get used to how it works it's actually a lot easier Roman. It's much faster to work with any day of the week. You just need to look at it as a chainable virtual 8-track tape. We use it by loading the same tape every time & simply copying & renaming any tracks we want to keep or use between takes. It's the method that delivers the closest thing ever to zero latency on Scope as far as I know.

Give it whirl

katano · Post by **katano** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:27 am

darkrezin,
you're right, i'll try to optimize my project further, if it doesn't work, i'll sell the magma...

tom, shroomzy

i see, i see... but i think it isn't a practible way for my needs. as i do lot of arranging and fading stuff and of course some timing corrections after recording in cubase. however, i'll try vdat...

To all,
at last i want to thank all of you incredible guys for your feedbacks! this was the first time i get really in big trouble with my rig and also the first time i spent almost the whole last 2 days and nights here on planetz. with the nice side effect of getting more and more posts

cheers and have a nice weekend
Roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-06-03 06:28 ]