Oberheim Filters w/ Resonance

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:27 am

Has anyone any knowledge on how I can get the right envelope/filter combo to attain that big Oberheim sound?
I am very frustrated at this point trying all sorts of combinations to achieve this sound,'cause if I do I can retire my ancient analogs. But this sound is the reasons that I have kept them on stage. When I retired the Oberheims, I was still using the Studio Electronics SE-1x's, as these were made in USA with both the Moog/Oberheim filters built into these FatBastards. I know from hearing all that Modular can do, that this would have been fast and simple, but I will try to explain what I am trying to achieve.
The exact sound is in the intro of a song entitled "Tom Sawyer" by the awesome Canadian band called Rush. It is easy to do on any analog, but digital boards have no presets 4 this kind of sound, and I think I know why now. On say an Oberheim OBX, one would crank up the resonance to 100%, the cutoff to 50-60%, then trim the envelopes. These would be of the ADSR type. With o% attack,decay at 75%-90%, and the sustain is where you could have that big downward sweep set, release is at 80-90%. The sound is like, " eeeeyyyyoooowwwwww", but very long and pronounced. Did Oberheim and Studio Electronics have something we need, or is it hiding in Flexor or Mod III.
I just hope someone can explain why I am having so much trouble. Also the volume does not dissapate or increase when resonance is taken out of the equation. I really love Modular/ Solaris /Flexor, so I will continue to experiment until I'm satisfied that this can, or cannot be done.

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:35 am

Hi!

can you please post a clip of the sound your after? i have yet to hear the sound that modular cant recreate (well not including real instruments, and resynthesis)

Peace!
Assaf

[ This Message was edited by: ReD_MuZe on 2006-05-29 12:37 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:07 pm

I will seek help in this matter, and thank you 4 helping me as I am a true addict, only frustrated by my lack of computer/Scope skills. I doubt I could get it to you right away, as I have never had a copy of it myself, just the synthesizers that did the sounds. I appreciate your help and will try to get what you ask of me. It is a long sustaining sound where the resonance drops its pitch throughout the duration. If it helps I can say that it goes," eeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyooooooowwwwwwwwwwww ".
And it is a monophonic single note strike. But it is an example of that Big Oberheim sound that sold so many units in 1980.

Thank You Sir, It's An Honor To Embarass Myself To You,

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:59 pm

Can you tell me which Oberheim synth made this sound?
I´ll send out my antennae after it then.

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-05-29 13:59 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:33 pm

It was the Oberheim OBX-a, from the family of Oberheim hybrids such as the OB1,OBX,OBX-a,OB8, and the SEM's could also do this. But as I was their opening act on a tour in '82, I witnessed Geddy Lee, the bassist/lead vocalist perform with the OBX-a. He would switch over from bass, to Taurus Bass Pedals when he performed on the Oberheim. The OBX-a was basically an 8-voice OBX with the first synth back then capable of basic multi-timbrality. That example was your basic dual unison split, with The big resonating patch w/ 4 voices in the bottom, and the lead synth also 4 voices, in the upper split. This was so old, it performed the split key 4 you, in other words you could not assign your own split key, as us spoiled bastards so often use these days.

I Tried To Explain This As Clearly As Valis Explains Things,

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:40 pm

You're on fire at the minute scope4live.

Ain't the joys of digital easier than days of analogue?

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:20 pm

You are so right, I am very happy, and very feverish. I hope I can eliminate my analogs altogether, even though they are a luxury to have.

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:57 pm

OK got some infos. Many infos differ from one to the other but..

The OBXa uses 2 low pass filters, a 2 pole 12dB and a 4pole 24dB. Envelopes are simple ADSRs. So any ADSR should work.

I found the Tom Sawyer track and listen to it, great.

I´ll try to get this sound out from the modular.

sound example is here:
http://www.spring-of-sound.de/Tracks/oberheim.mp3

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:50 am

I am Scoped out. 60 hours in 4 days. I shall return at 4pm PST tonight.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:01 am

On 2006-05-29 23:57, ChrisWerner wrote:
OK got some infos. Many infos differ from one to the other but..

The OBXa uses 2 low pass filters, a 2 pole 12dB and a 4pole 24dB. Envelopes are simple ADSRs. So any ADSR should work.

I found the Tom Sawyer track and listen to it, great.

I´ll try to get this sound out from the modular.

sound example is here:
http://www.spring-of-sound.de/Tracks/oberheim.mp3

Oberheim were always my favourite filter sound.So lush.

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:51 am

Some more infos.
The good:
I´ve got a very similar sound done today.
It needs some more pressure but maybe an EQ will do the job.
I believe and tested it, The Sawyer sound uses an unison mode, both VCOs are pulse waveforms and a high pulsewidth. VCO2 is synced to VCO1.

The 4pole 24dB filter is used together with the filter envelope(aprox.60percent mod depth). 30percent cutoff, 70percent resonance.
70 percent attack and decay time, 25 percent sustain, 45 percent release time on the filter envelope.

The bad:
I got it on Reaktor, but I´ll continue to realise it on Scope.

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-05-30 08:54 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:30 pm

You Go Bro',
That's pretty much on the money
from the way you described it. I am Feverish to see how you do this, as it will open my eyes to Modular even better. Under the hood of those Oberheims were some tricks I know, after messing w/ Modular it certainly isn't one filter with an ADSR.

Ankyuvarymush,

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Tue May 30, 2006 4:13 pm

i think you are reffering to Filter FM (modulating the filter with an oscilator.
in this case i think it is a bandpass filter modulated with a saw down oscillator which is tuned one octave lower

http://www.adern.com/filterfm.zip

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:15 pm

Dearest ReD_MuZe,
Thank You for the filter, but I can't get it to unzip,..error in reading this file.... I tried all three of the DAW's I got running. I saved it to a USB Micro HDD, and saved it to my internet HDD WD400JB, to no avail.

Your Newest Worshipper,

Jimmy V.

P.S. How is the weather up there on Mt.Olympus?

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-05-30 18:15 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:27 pm

The patch unzips okay here... maybe try re-downloading it?

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:57 pm

ReD_MuZe,
You Da'Man,
That is basically it. I will mess with this all night!! Thank you 4 the kind of support that is invaluable. When I do get to this new gig, Your beautiful modules will be flying through the air with Solaris and Scope. Our sounds will rule the free world, and maybe China too.

_________________
Jimmy V.

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-05-30 19:22 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:36 pm

ReD_MuZe,
Did Oberheim conceal these tricks under the hood? On the control surface there was no FM knob, and only ADSR, and two sets of filter knobs. So I would have been pulling my hair out 4 weeks. I now realise the capabilities of your knowledge combined with this product. This is what I must master, as it will make all other synths in Scope just fall into place. Thank you 4 a great new life, for a fierce warrior will emerge with this knowledge, and these tools.

ReD_MuZe,....Man Or Myth?

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:12 am

I got hungry and decided that I´ll go for a complete OBX-A clone for scope.
It´s not so huge. Two OSCs(Saw/Pulse).
The only filter modulation comes from the filter env and the LFO(sine/Square).
Also the LFO can affect the oscillators and pulse width.
The second Oscillator can be modulated from the filter envelope too, maybe that´s a trick.

A noise signal can be add to the filter for heavy distorted results.
The filter can work in two modes but not two filters at the same time.
4-pole 24dB/octave for a sharper/fuller sound or 2-pole 12dB/octave for a brighter sound.

I don´t know if I´ll go for this multitimbral upper lower split thing, probably not. You can always load a second OBX-c as I´ll name it. Wonderfull digital world isn´t it.

One thing I´ll try though, is that Auto Tune function, to set the OSCs into a tuned or drift mode. Also Alfonsos unison module is important.

Today and tomorrow I have to be at the collage but the weekend belongs to Oberheim, I can see blue bars on scope already.

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-05-31 02:16 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:25 am

Great Chris!!
Try to include the multitimbral split note priority if you can.

BTW Jimmy, If i'm not mistaken there was a duophonic monster with this psuedo-multitimbral capability built over 10 years earlier

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:21 pm

ReD_MuZe,

Since you're here anyway, I'd just like to say that my money is still waiting for you

rgds