Dear all,
I'm looking good/best Virtual-Acoustic-Room-Simulator reverbs for Pulsar/Scope-sp platform.
http://www.dspdev.com/dspdev/products_VRS.asp
I'm about on evaluated the VRS as the link above with scope board. I'd like to hear any opinions from you that how good it is? I love the VRS's concept, it has useful Graphic-User-Interface if anyone own this or know any similar reverbs for pulsar/scope (not interested in VST/DX) that we are looking for, please drop some lines here?
I've also heard that Paul or Creamware might works on something like that, is it correct? Please confirm?
Anyway, what are your favor reverbs? Is it possible to have good DSP-reverb alike Lexicon PCM's performance? I like the warm and natural reverb for acoustic-instrument used, any other ideas/thoughts?
Happy new year to all,
Thanks in advances,
Long
Best Virtual-Acoustic-Room-Simulator reverbs for Pulsar/Scop
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kensuguro
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I have the VRS... never used it in my projects. Be it natural instruments or sampled natural instruments. Masterverb that comes with Propack is cool... covers most situations, but not almighty. The Goldverb series is also very well built, but has too much character to be considered "natural", but it's veeeeery warm if you set it up right. The roundest, warmest out of the bunch would be Goldverb. It seems to have a tape-ish quality to it.
The VRS sounds a bit too roomy for me. Like the room is reeaally small. As if I was in a small studio room with bad acoustics. Though, I haven't tried it with a 5.1 setup, which it seems to be built for. (no desrespect intended Nikko! It's an awesome experiment nonetheless!) Sounds like material recorded with a camcorder. (so it's very realistic in a sense) Also, you'd need a very acoustically correct setup to make all the phase cancellations and delays work. Otherwise, this device concentrates too much on scioentific details for it to be of any use when played back on conventional stereo systems. But it's very usefull to make an off axis version of the recording to mix with the original, to get that live feeling. Though, that means live, with all the strange phasing and such. Haven't really experimented with it tho. Either way, I don't think VRS is warm at all and would be used as a "treatment" before the reverb.
Just curious to know, what are you trying to use this reverb/room simulator for anyway? What type of mix do you want to put through it, and what will it be played back on??
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-01-01 15:42 ]</font>
The VRS sounds a bit too roomy for me. Like the room is reeaally small. As if I was in a small studio room with bad acoustics. Though, I haven't tried it with a 5.1 setup, which it seems to be built for. (no desrespect intended Nikko! It's an awesome experiment nonetheless!) Sounds like material recorded with a camcorder. (so it's very realistic in a sense) Also, you'd need a very acoustically correct setup to make all the phase cancellations and delays work. Otherwise, this device concentrates too much on scioentific details for it to be of any use when played back on conventional stereo systems. But it's very usefull to make an off axis version of the recording to mix with the original, to get that live feeling. Though, that means live, with all the strange phasing and such. Haven't really experimented with it tho. Either way, I don't think VRS is warm at all and would be used as a "treatment" before the reverb.
Just curious to know, what are you trying to use this reverb/room simulator for anyway? What type of mix do you want to put through it, and what will it be played back on??
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-01-01 15:42 ]</font>
Thanks Ken,
>>>Just curious to know, what is this reverb/room simulator intended for anyway? What type of mix do you want to put through it, and what will it be played back on??<<<
I'm working/setting-up on orchestral/classical/symphonical tracks for DVD-Audio-DTS/CD-3D-R into 2/5/6-CH formats, the instruments are acoustical section-layers(violins/vilolas/celos/pianos/guitars/brasses/Voices/Choirs/etc). Of course, the mainly reason is that we try to simulate the orchestral player positions as explained more here: http://www.dspdev.com/dspdev/products_VRS.asp
Basically, we try to use the VRS in the final-mixdown. Let me explain a bit what we try to do as follows:
We found the VSR is helpful for us, if it works right, due to VRS's I/O only has 16, We could have 2~3 VSR devices per pulsar/Scope project.
Here is the process:
a> Inputs: The sources are combined from audio (wave), DXi, samplers and maybe External-gear, these will be connected to VRS's inputs; The total of 48 individual tracks, which are recorded-Dry in advanced or rare instruments, for example.
b> Outputs: They (48-CH) will be placed virtually in the VSR x3 (Virtual-Room-Simulator) as we wanted (just like real players). The VSR's outputs are connected to SP-Mixer-Surround individually (3xVSRs=48 mono or 24 stereo input-to-mixer).
c> Mixdown: The process is complicated, we have total of 3 VRSs and SP-Mixer + eff-IO.
Here is the SP-Sur-Mixer:
http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Sco ... ngpics.asp
We shall add effs/Eqs/Dynamic/Sur-panners/Etc by using insert/Aux/Ext-ADAT, each tracks has own parameterized. This produces the final mixdown to 2 or 5.1/6.1 Audio-Channels. To burn CD we use 2 audio-CH or burn DVD we use 6 audio-CH (DVD-Audio encoder).
What do you think? Any ideas? Let me know if I didn't explain it clearly! It would take huge of time to evaluate! I'm worry about the performance, if it doesn't work as it supposed to be, it's meant to waste my time!
Regards,
Long
>>>Just curious to know, what is this reverb/room simulator intended for anyway? What type of mix do you want to put through it, and what will it be played back on??<<<
I'm working/setting-up on orchestral/classical/symphonical tracks for DVD-Audio-DTS/CD-3D-R into 2/5/6-CH formats, the instruments are acoustical section-layers(violins/vilolas/celos/pianos/guitars/brasses/Voices/Choirs/etc). Of course, the mainly reason is that we try to simulate the orchestral player positions as explained more here: http://www.dspdev.com/dspdev/products_VRS.asp
Basically, we try to use the VRS in the final-mixdown. Let me explain a bit what we try to do as follows:
We found the VSR is helpful for us, if it works right, due to VRS's I/O only has 16, We could have 2~3 VSR devices per pulsar/Scope project.
Here is the process:
a> Inputs: The sources are combined from audio (wave), DXi, samplers and maybe External-gear, these will be connected to VRS's inputs; The total of 48 individual tracks, which are recorded-Dry in advanced or rare instruments, for example.
b> Outputs: They (48-CH) will be placed virtually in the VSR x3 (Virtual-Room-Simulator) as we wanted (just like real players). The VSR's outputs are connected to SP-Mixer-Surround individually (3xVSRs=48 mono or 24 stereo input-to-mixer).
c> Mixdown: The process is complicated, we have total of 3 VRSs and SP-Mixer + eff-IO.
Here is the SP-Sur-Mixer:
http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Sco ... ngpics.asp
We shall add effs/Eqs/Dynamic/Sur-panners/Etc by using insert/Aux/Ext-ADAT, each tracks has own parameterized. This produces the final mixdown to 2 or 5.1/6.1 Audio-Channels. To burn CD we use 2 audio-CH or burn DVD we use 6 audio-CH (DVD-Audio encoder).
What do you think? Any ideas? Let me know if I didn't explain it clearly! It would take huge of time to evaluate! I'm worry about the performance, if it doesn't work as it supposed to be, it's meant to waste my time!
Regards,
Long
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kensuguro
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But what's the intended purpose??? If it's some sort of experiment, and you're going to explain the process in detail to the listener (like you did here), then yeah, it might be worth the trouble. But if it's going to be music to go with a commercial product, chances are, the average consumer will never ever notice the difference between a binaureal simulation and a thoughtfully used reverb. So you could knock off a couple of dozen work hours depending on the situation. But the way things look, you're heading into a fair amount of r&d, requiring a fair amount of work hours.. Something I would do for a movie score but probably not for anything at a smaller scale if you ask me.
Also, considering the scale of the project (seems to have a fair amount of budget) you could consider collaborating with Nikko, or atleast seek advice from him.
Either way, are you sure this is going to be cheaper than just doing the whole thing live? In Japan, live orchestras are mega expensive.. but in the US, especially in California, things might be a little different. Oh well, just a couple of questions that popped to mind. I do wish you good luck tho, as this is still an experimental field. It will be great to hear just how good a binaureal simulation can be.
Also, considering the scale of the project (seems to have a fair amount of budget) you could consider collaborating with Nikko, or atleast seek advice from him.
Either way, are you sure this is going to be cheaper than just doing the whole thing live? In Japan, live orchestras are mega expensive.. but in the US, especially in California, things might be a little different. Oh well, just a couple of questions that popped to mind. I do wish you good luck tho, as this is still an experimental field. It will be great to hear just how good a binaureal simulation can be.
Thanks for your comments, Ken.
>>>But what's the intended purpose???<<<
The purpose to use Simulation Environment would be in-expensive way and more flexible. We build the Virtual-Digital-MIDI-Recording-mixing-In-A-Box, it is same idea why we are using Pulsar-synths and sampler instead of real-analog-synths and real-acoustic instruments.
Furthermore, there are a lot overhead needed to build real Studio's environment for Live-Ochestra-recording, of course we can't afford it. If there is still no solution, we won't do it, period.
Regards,
Long
>>>But what's the intended purpose???<<<
The purpose to use Simulation Environment would be in-expensive way and more flexible. We build the Virtual-Digital-MIDI-Recording-mixing-In-A-Box, it is same idea why we are using Pulsar-synths and sampler instead of real-analog-synths and real-acoustic instruments.
Furthermore, there are a lot overhead needed to build real Studio's environment for Live-Ochestra-recording, of course we can't afford it. If there is still no solution, we won't do it, period.
Regards,
Long
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kensuguro
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Oh.. I meant the purpose of the DVD you're making.On 2002-01-02 16:07, LHong wrote:
The purpose to use Simulation Environment would be in-expensive way and more flexible. We build the Virtual-Digital-MIDI-Recording-mixing-In-A-Box, it is same idea why we are using Pulsar-synths and sampler instead of real-analog-synths and real-acoustic instruments.