Newbie Question: Different type of Scope Cards

jc70417 · Post by **jc70417** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:40 am

Hi guys, I am here again for some more newbie questions.

As far as I know, the type of cards that are available to the SCOPE platform is, Pulsar I, Pulsar II,Pulsar XTC, Luna, Luna II, and Elektra. They are all DSP cards and will work with Scope platform.

Is there any major differences between those cards? is it simply just old/new differences? Just different company made?

I am currently looking at between a new Scope Home card (3DSP), a used Pulsar XTC (6 DSP) card or a Elektra card (3DSP) and all three seems to fit my budget. I just want to make sure that Pulsar XTC or Elektra card is not an outdated product comparing to a new scope home card. Also, I want to make sure that I can be capable of upgrading to new versions of software in the future as well.

Thanks in advance

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:48 am

buy scope pro(around $1400) and be a happy guy

you'll got everything there.
*14 dsp.
*5 or 6 classic synth
*Mix n Master pack(you must need that)
and many new plugin...
thanks

Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:52 am

As far as I know, the type of cards that are available to the SCOPE platform is, Pulsar I, Pulsar II,Pulsar XTC, Luna, Luna II, and Elektra. They are all DSP cards and will work with Scope platform.

*****Yes all are DSP and all except XTC work with Scope Platform. However each card may have more devices than others. XTC on the other hand does not work in scope platform environment, unless you get keys to use Scope. Otherwise it is XTC.

Is there any major differences between those cards?

Pulsar 1 4 DSP limited software
Pular II 6 DSP More software than Pulsar 1
XTC no Scope software and no I/O
Luna 3 DSP limited software
Luna II 3 DSP more software than Luna
Elektra 3 DSP less software than Luna II.

is it simply just old/new differences? Just different company made?

****Same company. different product. those with the Same # of DSP are the same hardware but software functionality are different.

I am currently looking at between a new Scope Home card (3DSP), a used Pulsar XTC (6 DSP) card or a Elektra card (3DSP) and all three seems to fit my budget.

** Go for the Scope HOME. Most recent.
Pulsar XTC has no I/O or Scope software.
Elektra is discontinued and don't have the software the Scope Home has.

I just want to make sure that Pulsar XTC or Elektra card is not an outdated product comparing to a new scope home card.

**Yes they are outdated. no longer made.

Also, I want to make sure that I can be capable of upgrading to new versions of software in the future as well.

**ALL DSP products can be upgraded for a Cost.

jc70417 · Post by **jc70417** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:57 am

Thanks alot for such a fast response!!! You guys are great!

I will love to get a Scope Pro, but currently even with all the selling on my currently own musical equipments will not allow me to afford such a thing. With more understanding on the type of cards, I have a clear picture with what I'll be getting.

Thanks a bunch for the answers!

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:10 am

Scope Home is intended to be an advanced I/O routing card that can have a few effects on your signal routing. If you want to do serious mixing or synths, you have to get a Scope Project or Scope Professional.

Don't get those old, outdated boards. They don't come with much software, and some of them are the 1st generation boards with poor performance. The newest things are the best ones.

By the way, I've noticed that in the last few months I've seen a lot of new users joining PlanetZ and buying CWA stuff. I'm glad CW's user base is expanding.

_________________
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

Indieanna: Integrated Solutions for the Independent Musician
http://www.indieanna.com

[ This Message was edited by: Shayne White on 2005-12-06 11:12 ]

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:11 pm

As long as you stay away from "Generation 1" cards - you are getting pretty much the same thing as the latest cards as far as hardware is concerned. The difference is what plugins are included. By the way, since you mentioned the Elektra, you should know that it is the same hardware as Luna II and SCOPE Home - all "Generation 2" hardware with low latency ability.

Also, the new v4.5 upgrade for only 98EURO will update these older "Generation 2" cards with a great package of synths and effects - and you will have the same plugins that you would get if you bought a brand new SCOPE Home card. 

(By the way, does anyone know when the SCOPE Home cards will begin shipping with v4.5? If you buy brand new, you may want to be careful that you don't get a v4.0 card that you would need to pay 98EURO to upgrade to 4.5. In that case you might as well get a second-hand older card for less and upgrade it to 4.5)

As others have mentioned, you should look at 3 DSPs as only a start to your system. It may be all you can get budget wise now, but you will likely want to expand it later (depending how you plan to use the card).

As a point of reference, I have found that I can get 4 voices out of the new Pro 12 synth with 3 DSPs. With some of the synths included in the Home upgrade (such as LightWave) I get 7 or 8 voices. Also, I can use a pretty good variety of effects with 3 DSPs if I am not using a synth.

If you want to us it to mix 36 tracks of audio adding a variety of effects on each channel plus patch in some of the SCOPE synths, you are going to need a lot more DSP horsepower.

Keep in mind that for the price, there is nothing out there that can beat a 3 DSP SCOPE system in terms of the power and flexibility you get - and with the new v4.5 upgrade the effects/synth plugins at this price can't be beat either (even considering limitation you will have with 3 DSP).

[ This Message was edited by: powerpulsarian on 2005-12-06 12:25 ]

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:28 am

If I have a SECOND generation system: PulsarII + LunaII, that works good in ULLI mode (7ms), and I will add a FIRST generation card (Pulsar1): do I have problems in overall performances (raise the latency) in the whole system or I have higher latency only with Pulsar1 I/O and the rest remais at 7ms?
And could I have some hardware conflicts with ibrid first/second generation array?
Thanks in advance.

Post by **hubird** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:35 am

as long as you don't make the 1st gen card the master you're just adding DSP's...

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:44 am

Great, thanks Hubird =)

[ This Message was edited by: erminardi on 2005-12-07 10:31 ]

arela · Post by **arela** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:59 am

Just to verify
Luna, Powersampler and Elektra = same generation 1 card.
Elektra was equiped with extra Modular software, and Powersampler with STS3000 sampler software, else, same cards and same software. (luna software, but converted to Scope software march 2002)

Later v2 of Luna and Powersampler came.
Powersampler 2 was a Luna with aditional sampler software (STS5000?)

The Sonic Rocket Booster cards, are also in 3 different versions, with 4, 6 and 14/15 dsp. The SRB with 6 dsp's is same card as Pulsar XTC, but without software.

jc70417 · Post by **jc70417** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:02 am

Thanks again for all the replies, I believe this thread can be very useful for other newbies like me that is about to purchase a Scope card.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:08 am

On 2005-12-07 09:59, arela wrote:
Just to verify
Luna, Powersampler and Elektra = same generation 1 card.

This is wrong. All Elektra, PowerSampler and Luna cards are the same cards - and are Generation II with low latency specs - there are no differences except for the software that comes bundled. The only card that does not have the low latency specs is the Pulsar I with the 4 DSPs. This is confirmed with Creamware a while back when I was first looking at what card to get.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:18 am

By the way - just to be sure I did a quick search and verified that the Ultra Low Latency Interface (ULLI) is included in Elektra, Luna I and PowerSampler - it was mentioned in a press release about those products. So again, the only card that doesn't include the ULLI is the Pulsar I (4 DSP card).

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:15 pm

Pulsar 1 : 6DSP, PCI rev2.1 and 20bits ADC

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:32 pm

Pulsar One has 4 DSPs, 20 bit input converters, 24 bit output converters, minimal latency 13ms at 44.1k
the most significant difference is a much lower PCI bandwidth, wghich allows 5 Masterverbs (on a good chipset) at best.
the sound of the input stage is better than one might expect from the numeric value

cheers, Tom

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:38 pm

Yes, the ADC had a better crosstalk (102dB for Pulsar 1, 90dB for PulsarII), but there were 6DSP (2 on the back of the Board if my memory don't fail).

arela · Post by **arela** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:53 pm

powerpulsarian
You're right, Luna 1 and 2 cards are both equiped with ULLI settings (i got a manual), and the hardware might be identical.
Then the #2 is just a sales gimmic

....new "old" cards with new software

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:08 pm

the crosstalk difference is interesting.
I'm actually quite happy with the converters as I don't have high res external sources (TX802, SPX90, VZ8 and a bunch of other Casios).
And the vinyl (restoration/backup) stuff ends on regular CDs anyway - which happen to sound extremely natural

you mess the Pulsar One with the old 15 DSP boards, those had DSPs on the backside, too - otherwise CWA owes me 4 extra chips...

cheers, tom

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:17 pm

Damn, Ya right!
Forgot I had just 4 in that time!
Those DSP are like candy .... nether enought.

jc70417 · Post by **jc70417** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:22 am

Hey guys, I have a choice to make.

Waiting for a new scope home package that comes with version 4.5 or

Purchase an used Pulsar XTC card(6DSP) that comes with software and a key for Scope 4 + a Elektra card(3DSP) for In/out purposes? Both are used and if the Pulsar XTC card that comes with a key for scope 4.0 can be capable of upgrading to 4.5 project would sound like a sweet deal that will allow me to have 9 DSP power in total. After calculation, both product together will be cheaper than a normal Scope Project and it would allow me to get 9DSP!!; however, I need to know that I can make Pulsar XTC my main card to use it as a Scope Project card.

After hearing 9 out of 10 people mentioned the importance of DSP power, I am very concerned with DSP power myself being a new user as well.

Thanks in advance