I'm thinking of upgrading my desk, at the moment i'm using a Yamaha o1V with adat card, so this allows me to send 8 digital channels from pulsar into the desk and vice versa.
the o1v uses omni outs rather than send and return and has all the FX on board, it has never been the most inspirational way of using a mixing desk, and it doesn't sound all that great (good for digital but I prefer the sound of an analogue desk)
whats everybody using out there, is there a good value for money desk out there that you could recommend, that would link with my pulsar 1 card
ideally I want to mix 16 tracks or more of audio on an analogue desk, but what options could I think about for getting those 16 tracks of audio out of pulsar
anyway just putting this to you guys, to see what works for you.
I'm producing dance music, and am at the stage where making the music and composition is fine, but getting the Sound that I need to master to vinyl has to be loud, clear and punchier than mike tyson, i'm getting good sounds at the moment, but I reckon if I was mixing down using a nice analogue desk I could maximise the quality.
or should I be mixing all this inside scope?
any comments gratefully received
Thinking of upgrading my 01v desk
-
hubird
Mix it all in Scope MrVinyl. Without a doubt you'll get the best results. We have 2 O1V's & they are fantastic machines. I'd advise buying a second O1V with adat if you can get it for around £400-£450. You will not find a finer desk for £400. Mix in Scope treating your O1V as a sub-mixer, probably slaved to the Pulsar using the same Adat connections you have now.
The EQ's are particularly digital sounding, but don't treat that as a flaw, treat it as a 'weapon'(crank the gain & automate them for rucous sweeps) & just find nicer EQ's elsewhere if you need them. The 2 Yamaha FX units in the O1V are very nice too, as they're essentialy REV 500 standard with full midi control.
The Omni outs & their routing are all about flexibility really, but we just use them as sends to NordM, SPS-1, analogue inputs on synths etc.
Having said all that, i would consider a pair of Spirit 328 Digital desks as a replacement for our O1V's at some point.
_________________
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2005-11-17 08:09 ]</font>
The EQ's are particularly digital sounding, but don't treat that as a flaw, treat it as a 'weapon'(crank the gain & automate them for rucous sweeps) & just find nicer EQ's elsewhere if you need them. The 2 Yamaha FX units in the O1V are very nice too, as they're essentialy REV 500 standard with full midi control.
The Omni outs & their routing are all about flexibility really, but we just use them as sends to NordM, SPS-1, analogue inputs on synths etc.
Having said all that, i would consider a pair of Spirit 328 Digital desks as a replacement for our O1V's at some point.
_________________
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2005-11-17 08:09 ]</font>
sounds like you're writing a rule book there Gary.
I'd definately say mix in Scope, but there's nothing stopping *anyone* having 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 external digital (or analogue) sub mixers. It totally depends on the size of your studio & your input requirements. Using extenal submixers with as clean & flat a mix as possible, just for their hands-on interface benefits alone would make sense to a lot of people. They can be used as remote surfaces, they are the best bang for bucks & are the most flexible & sensible way to add 32, 48 inputs or whatever to your system in my opinion. I mean, what's the going rate for 48 inputs via AD/DA's ? Our 2 O1V's only set us back £800 including the Adat cards (about $1500 for the lot)
Everyone differs tho, so each to their own.
I'd definately say mix in Scope, but there's nothing stopping *anyone* having 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 external digital (or analogue) sub mixers. It totally depends on the size of your studio & your input requirements. Using extenal submixers with as clean & flat a mix as possible, just for their hands-on interface benefits alone would make sense to a lot of people. They can be used as remote surfaces, they are the best bang for bucks & are the most flexible & sensible way to add 32, 48 inputs or whatever to your system in my opinion. I mean, what's the going rate for 48 inputs via AD/DA's ? Our 2 O1V's only set us back £800 including the Adat cards (about $1500 for the lot)
Everyone differs tho, so each to their own.
-
paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
nah, no rule book, just an opinion.On 2005-11-17 11:06, Shroomz wrote:
sounds like you're writing a rule book there Gary.
behringer ada8000s have 8 mic pres, are about $230us shipped and are every bit as clean as an o1w. that's $1380us for 48 inputs and outputs with 48 decent, usable mic pres. 3 a16s new are about $2300 for extremely good ad/da.....the control surface IS a nice feature of the o1w.....
Paul it's pretty simple, but due to the fact that there are more available parameters to edit than CCs available, the default control change map doesn't have the FX params set up, only the main FX send levels for every channel, the main channel levels & ch' mutes etc.On 2005-11-17 11:16, paulrmartin wrote:
01V users! Have you guys ever tried to change a reverb setting via MIDI? If so, which CC do you use?
The machine can transmit a dump of the Control change map on it's own, so the first thing to do is dump that out & save it if you want to be able to quickly call it back.
Then in the Midi/Control change section, you need to assign FX params 1-19 for Effect1 & the same for Effect2. It's up to you what CC's you assign these to & once you're done, you should have external control of params 1-19 for both FX units no matter what effect is being used on each one. You must make sure in Midi/midi setup, that TX & RX are checked for control change & that local control is on.
So in other words, there's no dedicated CC for any particular Reverb parameter. Any problems give me a shout.
If someone put $1500 dollars worth of behringer ada8000's in front of me & $1500 dollars worth of 2nd hand yamaha digital mixer & said take your pick, behringer I/O boxes or Yamaha mixers, i'd definately not have to think twice about walking away & leaving the Behringer units sitting in the street, while i struggled off down the road with my 2 Yamahas 
Every parameter that you need can be controlled via midi. IE: All sliders, all buttons for *every* page. Every FX parameter, every EQ param', every Dynamic param' (yes, you can modulate your compression & gates) The lot. It's an amazing little desk MrVinyl. Hook up a Control freak, PC1600 or B-control & give it a chanceOn 2005-11-17 14:20, mrvinyl wrote:
No I'm afraid I haven't, I Don't know whether its possible to control the reverb via midi?
Actually Paul, there's no real need to dump that default control change map, as you can just save it to a memory 'scene'. That way you can setup a new scene for FX, a scene for EQ's, one for Dynamics etc & store them all in separate memory locations. Nice thing about working that way is that you can then assign your new scene's containing these various CC maps to program change No's for fast toggling between them. You know, scene memory 01 can be assigned to & selected by program change No.1, scene memory 02 to PGM CHG. No.2 etc etc
and well, shroomy, that'd be your loss. the o1v is nothing extrordinary either. in fact, it's just exactly what the behringer is, very servicable crap. you don't really think that they made those in some yamaha factory in japan do you? also, the NEW behringers are $200 less than the USED yamahas. patching will be MUCH easier with the behringers as well as the behringers are a functional patchbay for the computer. for myself, i'd get the a16s, but then i have plenty of mic pres and after spending all the money for my 48i/o creamware rig, i'd find the extra $1000 for top quality stuff, but that's me. i know that behringer is not top shelf, but the ada8000 is well made and sounds REALLY good for that money.On 2005-11-18 03:18, Shroomz wrote:
If someone put $1500 dollars worth of behringer ada8000's in front of me & $1500 dollars worth of 2nd hand yamaha digital mixer & said take your pick, behringer I/O boxes or Yamaha mixers, i'd definately not have to think twice about walking away & leaving the Behringer units sitting in the street, while i struggled off down the road with my 2 Yamahas
functionally, the behringers are the equivalent or BETTER than the o1v. period, and no matter what anyone THINKS. what do you think is in an o1v anyway? have you ever dissected it to find out what converters and pres are really in there, or was the name enough?
really, i don't care what anyone uses or likes, it's all good to me. i know you like to argue pointless things like this, and i don't mind giving an opinion.
i really doubt if the yamaha(wait, i don't doubt, i KNOW it can't) can touch scope for sound quality, variety of effects, ability to patch in external devices, or routing in general. i know that a good engineer will get a good mix and recording in any case.
see, the halucinations are subsiding if you'll let them...when you come down, i'll talk to the man. talking to the fungus makes no sense.
as i said, it's just my opinion. do what you see fit. i also acknowledged the value of the o1v for a control surface, if you like. i think it's a sad controller personally, and my shop is next to the yamaha factory service center and i remember how many of them used to come in broken and buggy. i also remember how the techs disliked them. still, if you know that board it might be worth keeping and owning because it's always a hassle to learn new gear, and as you said, they're cheap these days, and as i agreed, it IS functional.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-11-18 04:38 ]</font>
I think you got the wrong impression of what i'm suggesting anyway Gary. Sorry, i should probably have explained this I/O concept further.
For talking (not argueing:-) sake, you have a single 3 card scope system & you want to get the maximum no' of inputs to it. Depending on which I/O plates are on your Scope cards, you'll be looking at a maximum of less than 80 inputs. That can be increased with mixing down some channels using external sub-mixers. (preferrably with adat)
In this scenario (with O1V's for example), you can take say 16 of your Scope's Adat inputs & feed them with say 32-48 channels worth of inputs from the external desks. You can have say a stereo mix + busses or a stereo mix & 6 direct outs from each O1V giving you essentially the ability to increase a 78 input Scope rig to a 96 or even 110 input system which includes A16's, Alesis AI3's or ADA8000's (whatever takes your fancy) So you see gary, i wasn't actually suggesting the use of external sub-mixers as an *alternative* to AD/DA's, but rather that sub-mixing can be a good way of 'increasing' your physical input count, albeit by mixing down some channels pre-Scope. Some people won't want to do this, others won't have the need.
I suppose you were right about this being a pretty pointless discussion though. Still at least MrVinyl & Paul & maybe some others will hopefully have taken something positive from the thread
For talking (not argueing:-) sake, you have a single 3 card scope system & you want to get the maximum no' of inputs to it. Depending on which I/O plates are on your Scope cards, you'll be looking at a maximum of less than 80 inputs. That can be increased with mixing down some channels using external sub-mixers. (preferrably with adat)
In this scenario (with O1V's for example), you can take say 16 of your Scope's Adat inputs & feed them with say 32-48 channels worth of inputs from the external desks. You can have say a stereo mix + busses or a stereo mix & 6 direct outs from each O1V giving you essentially the ability to increase a 78 input Scope rig to a 96 or even 110 input system which includes A16's, Alesis AI3's or ADA8000's (whatever takes your fancy) So you see gary, i wasn't actually suggesting the use of external sub-mixers as an *alternative* to AD/DA's, but rather that sub-mixing can be a good way of 'increasing' your physical input count, albeit by mixing down some channels pre-Scope. Some people won't want to do this, others won't have the need.
I suppose you were right about this being a pretty pointless discussion though. Still at least MrVinyl & Paul & maybe some others will hopefully have taken something positive from the thread
My mistake, that should've read 'increase a 78 input Scope rig to a 94 or even 110 input system'On 2005-11-18 05:58, Shroomz wrote:
You can have say a stereo mix + busses or a stereo mix & 6 direct outs from each O1V giving you essentially the ability to increase a 78 input Scope rig to a 96 or even 110 input system
No worries Gary