Creamware already IS Kernel Streaming?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:23 am

[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-11-01 09:35 ]

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:00 am

Nice to get a screenshot here. When I looked at it from infinitevortex, everything got to small to see, so I had to save the image and open it from IrfanView.

Anyway, I have never been with a computer with anything never than 98se. I suppose the picture is a XP-screenshot?

What is KS? - it seems important, the way you put it out.

Immanuel Kuhrt

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:04 am

Yup, that's Windows XP running the Silver Luna theme (one of the default ones).

There has been a rumor that continues to float around that the 2k/XP drivers aren't Kernel Streaming which some Sonar users were complaining about. I found it interesting that a quick look at the drivers seems to indicate otherwise

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:13 am

Ok, but can you explain kernel streaming?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:00 am

Try this:

http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/desinit/csa1.htm

Little snip from that link:

How Does WDM Streaming Achieve Low Latency?

WDM Streaming is accomplished by a set of kernel-mode drivers that pass data streams to each other using a specific transport (for example, shared memory areas). Kernel-mode drivers calling each other and using shared memory areas contribute to lower latency in several ways:

No time-consuming kernel-mode/non-kernel-mode transitions and parameter validations are necessary to render a data stream.
No extra copies of the data stream are necessary.
Kernel-mode drivers can access the hardware directly through calls to the WDM base services.
Less context switching is done.
Fewer IRPs might be generated.
Parameters need not be probed, and the security layer is bypassed.
Streaming data in kernel mode also contributes to synchronization because kernel-mode drivers have access to operating-system kernel scheduling services, which have relatively predictable response times.


[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-11-01 11:00 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:13 am

The Kernel is the central code basicly. Now in order for a app to be fast, it needs access to the core immediatly, meaning it will bypass the OS itself, like WDM or ASIO. Now the downside of this would be less stable systems, cause you can't bypass the kernel without letting kernel shut the audioapp off in case of trouble.
I'll try to explain better... let's take win2000, it has five rings, all of them are prioritied differently. Now take MIDI, it's on kernel's third ring I think, making it stable but not really RESPONSIVE. (This explains why NT versions of audio progs took time to develop.) ok, now if the MIDI-ring (or multimedia ring I think It's called) hags up, kernel is still in control of that execute and can therefor terminate it.
The problem with independent apps is that they can freeze your OS. Well I hope I'm right about this, I'm as many of you already know, a mac user. (kernel speed is 25x faster on MacOS but it's not pre-empitive in the way it uses multi-tasking).

Good luck.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 4:00 pm

A few more pictures

<img src=http://www.infinitevortex.com/images/ks_first.jpg> 
<img src=http://www.infinitevortex.com/images/ks_next.jpg> 
<img src=http://www.infinitevortex.com/images/ks_nice.jpg> 

Sent to me by a reader who saw this thread and tried it...

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 10:43 am

And of course this was confirmed by Ingo on the Creamware forum (although I don't have a link to the thread anymore it was titled with a mispelling, "kernal streaming" or so), that indeed, Creamware's WDM drivers DO in fact support Kernel Streaming (as should be plenty of proof with the above screen captures, anyway), and that ks support relies on the HOST software package using this.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 10:56 am

Hmmmm...Lower latency? We've seen the Sonar thing. I wonder if and how Logic or Cubase respond to that?
(I have NO idea what I'm typing about

)

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 11:01 am

I've been getting 4-7ms latency with a Luna2 card since I bought it in like March or something, using ASIO. Now, even the 3ms latency setting is almost usable, if you don't do a lot of switching.

Very few cards have wave drivers which can touch this, ASIO was developed with pro audio in mind from the ground up, Cakewalk audio has always seemed like a total hack to me, which is why I dumped it around Cakewalk 8. Now that there is WDM-ks, there is hope, and people are saying they can get 30ms latency with the WDM-ks drivers with Sonar, obviously this is still a long way away from the incredible latencies I get with ASIO. Sonar is still Cakewalk, just a different name...

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 11:04 am

SO does this work only on the Luna or with Pulsar2 as well?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 11:41 am

All Creamware cards share an almost identical driver.

The only cards which can't go below 13ms, are the Pulsar1 & Scope1 boards, but if you attach a newer "make 2" board to the system via STDM, then they all share the ULLI features, yes.

[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-11-29 11:42 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:48 pm

What is "a newer "make 2" board" and what does "to the system via STDM" mean?
Sorry for all the perhaps silly questions but I'm no tech.
Thanks!

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 1:02 pm

STDM cable is a ribbon used to connect cards together (hey I already messed up the width of this page, so why not add a few more pics to show you?)

<img src=http://www.creamware.de/images/picsbig/ ... ds_500.jpg>
Here you see 3 Pulsar cards (2 XTC boards, and one Pulsar2 classic), across the top you can see parts of the 2 STDM cables which are connecting all of them together into one system.

A "Make 2" board, is any board that isn't a Pulsar1 or SCOPE1 board. To be EVEN more explicit here, this means, Pulsar2, SCOPE/SP, Luna2, Elektra, PowerSampler, PowerPulsar...

Clear?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 1:17 pm

Got it! Thanks for your patience.