Hello!
I am trying to use STM 24/48 to record my live band, and we'll start today, so please respond quickly. We have two special demands for the listening which are:
1. We want seven separate monitor systems.
2. We want some effect in these monitor systems.
I am trying to use AUX 1 as send for the effect. AUX 2-6 will be used as monitor 1-5. Monitor and Mix will be the last two monitor systems. I can't figure out how to send effects to the AUX'es.
I have a workaround presented at
http://www.mikla.nu/StudioConfigSS.gif
but I really don't think that is so pretty.
I must also say that I am quite new to recording and pro mixing so, I migth have missed some general feature here...
Should I use this mixer?
Any ideas
Regards Magnus
Mixer with many Auxes/Monitors?
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blazesboylan
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Nice diagram! Reads very easily.
Honestly I think you're better off with an external mixer for all but the effects. You'll find that mixing in SFP, your signals will be delayed roughly 20 ms (latency). The same is true for any other audio card, too, for that matter.
You *can* get used to the latency delay, but it will most likely throw you for a spin at first.
(I use an OZ Q-Mix, which is a lovely little headphone distribution amp with sends / returns for effects. However there are lots of alternatives.)
As to your original question -- I think your setup is fine, and it shows that you know what you're doing! Not an easy problem, but you found an intelligent solution. Just make sure you leave the "Aux 1" button for channel 20 set to "off". Otherwise you'll get "Infinite recursion" messages.
Honestly I think you're better off with an external mixer for all but the effects. You'll find that mixing in SFP, your signals will be delayed roughly 20 ms (latency). The same is true for any other audio card, too, for that matter.
You *can* get used to the latency delay, but it will most likely throw you for a spin at first.
(I use an OZ Q-Mix, which is a lovely little headphone distribution amp with sends / returns for effects. However there are lots of alternatives.)
As to your original question -- I think your setup is fine, and it shows that you know what you're doing! Not an easy problem, but you found an intelligent solution. Just make sure you leave the "Aux 1" button for channel 20 set to "off". Otherwise you'll get "Infinite recursion" messages.
For latency free monitoring you have to use the direct connections of the cards (adat, s/p-dif, analog) for in and out. Additionally to routing the mix to several physical outs via separate gainers for monitoring purposes you can route the direct outs of the mixer to the asio destination to record it (and to add reverb of your desire in a later stage).
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blazesboylan
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Maybe I misunderstand you Wolf, but none of the A-D / D-A converters is "latency free". There is a small amount of latency with every conversion, and it adds up to a noticeable amount, no matter which hardware connections you use.On 2005-08-29 11:22, wolf wrote:
For latency free monitoring you have to use the direct connections of the cards (adat, s/p-dif, analog) for in and out.
For true latency free monitoring you have to stay in the analog world.
Converters add about 0.5 ms latency, which is 1 ms for ad and then da conversion. Sound travels 330 meter in a second, so with 1 ms the sound source has 33 cm distance from the ear. There are not a lot of instruments in the real world, which emitt sound in a less distance. The way, the sound takes from the speakers to everybodys ears, adds more latency in this case 
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blazesboylan
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Well I'm not sure where the 0.5 ms conversion latency number comes from, presumably it's correct in itself. But from practical experience and test measurements, running a signal out of SCOPE via lightpipe to A16 Ultra and back in again adds something in the range of 20 ms latency to the signal. I'll go back and check my number, maybe it's off. But there is a *noticeable* delay. You can test as follows:
1) Use an analog mixer.
2) Plug a mic in -> preamp -> analog mixer and also multed to A16 Ultra.
3) Route the SFP ADAT source through BlombergM's signal chain (see the diagram).
4) Send A16 out to analog mixer channel # 2.
5) Speak into the mic and listen to the mix on your analog mixer.
If it doesn't sound like a guitar phaser pedal to you, then let me know what you tweaked in order to achieve such low latency!
Incidentally analog electricity is as close to latency-free as you can get, outside of using light.
1) Use an analog mixer.
2) Plug a mic in -> preamp -> analog mixer and also multed to A16 Ultra.
3) Route the SFP ADAT source through BlombergM's signal chain (see the diagram).
4) Send A16 out to analog mixer channel # 2.
5) Speak into the mic and listen to the mix on your analog mixer.
If it doesn't sound like a guitar phaser pedal to you, then let me know what you tweaked in order to achieve such low latency!
Incidentally analog electricity is as close to latency-free as you can get, outside of using light.
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blazesboylan
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*comes back red-faced*
OK I just spent the past hour trying to figure out where I went wrong. And wolf and garyb are, of course correct.
Latency, in my test, is roughly 2 ms with SCOPE, or (from my previous tests with outboard compressors) 80-100 samples at 44.1 KHz.
It took me an hour to figure out where I got the idea that SFP introduces noticeable latency. Well duh. The phasing effect comes from ASIO monitoring (which, despite the Nuendo and Vegas documentation, must be actually going over the PCI bus -- maybe I've missed a configuration parameter with Vegas and Nuendo? Or in SCOPE somewhere??? Using ASIO2-32 bit-64 channel module...).
Anyway nothing to do whatsoever with signals routed within SFP.
Oh well, I'm glad y'all set me straight. Thank you for ridding me of some evil dogma. Cheers, and sorry for confuzzing the matter!
- Johann
OK I just spent the past hour trying to figure out where I went wrong. And wolf and garyb are, of course correct.
Latency, in my test, is roughly 2 ms with SCOPE, or (from my previous tests with outboard compressors) 80-100 samples at 44.1 KHz.It took me an hour to figure out where I got the idea that SFP introduces noticeable latency. Well duh. The phasing effect comes from ASIO monitoring (which, despite the Nuendo and Vegas documentation, must be actually going over the PCI bus -- maybe I've missed a configuration parameter with Vegas and Nuendo? Or in SCOPE somewhere??? Using ASIO2-32 bit-64 channel module...).
Anyway nothing to do whatsoever with signals routed within SFP.
Oh well, I'm glad y'all set me straight. Thank you for ridding me of some evil dogma. Cheers, and sorry for confuzzing the matter!
- Johann
Hi there!
Thanks for all answers, even if the latency took over the discussion. I set up my scope studio yesterday based on my schema, and it was working properly, so I think I'll go for that. I thought the channel return was a bad idea, but maybe it isn't. I thought I should use AUX returns, but it works well by using channel returns.
Anyway, I know it's strange with six monitor systems, and after some discussions I've persuaded my music friends to agree with four systems, so I'm happy now.
Thanks and regards
/Magnus
Thanks for all answers, even if the latency took over the discussion. I set up my scope studio yesterday based on my schema, and it was working properly, so I think I'll go for that. I thought the channel return was a bad idea, but maybe it isn't. I thought I should use AUX returns, but it works well by using channel returns.
Anyway, I know it's strange with six monitor systems, and after some discussions I've persuaded my music friends to agree with four systems, so I'm happy now.
Thanks and regards
/Magnus