Reason - I just love the workflow in that program!

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:34 am

Rewires is better than ASIO because you don't have to connect any audio or midi, you don't have to name anything. You can not use the wrong ASIO driver. You simply have to use it for a while to understand how it makes the process smoother.

One comment I have about Reason and Creamware is that by insisting the GUI look like hardware, they are using up a lot of space on the screen which should have been used to add more interface options and to create larger text. The idea that it has to look pretty has nothing to do with the sound and is primarily a moronic concept.

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2005-07-29 10:39 ]

petal · Post by **petal** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:03 pm

Oh braincell, the way you put things so delicately.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:40 pm

I agree to the workflow concept, but that's also restricting the way things can be arranged - obviously, as that's the purpose (and advantage) of an all-in-one solution.

On the other hand I truely doubt that a single sound source can deliver a full audio spectrum, not matter how good that source is.

This applies to audio CD and vinyl releases - for internet streaming stuff it doesn't matter, as the process itself seems to put a heavy sound-print on the output (imho).

It could also be sufficient for a fairly minimalistic style, though I'm not exactly sure...

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-07-29 15:41 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:10 pm

On 2005-07-29 15:40, astroman wrote:
On the other hand I truely doubt that a single sound source can deliver a full audio spectrum, not matter how good that source is.

hm, why not, if you mean that Reason as only sound source can't produce perfect (electronic) songs.
I think it can, a friend of mine (authorised beta tester) can

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-07-29 17:11 ]

petal · Post by **petal** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:16 pm

It's interesting how all the arguments against Reason are directed at the sound which I agree isn't at the same level as CW, but on the other hand, really isn't that bad. It's like if the content of what is produced doesn't really count and no one (or at least the audiopurists...

) seems to focus on how the whole concept of Reason inspires and drives the user forward against an endresult, instead of constantly being stopped by small nonproductive issues as long loadingtimes, sloppy graphicmovements, sensitive hardware, constant concerns about using DSP's effectively, host-issues, difficult or at least timeconsumig automation etc... To me the workflow in Reason kind of provokes good compositions and ideas out of me, because it's simply easier and faster to test out ideas on the fly - not much, but enough so that it actually matters in the process. To me thats the main force in Reason, something I really miss in my Cubase + CW setup.
I think my next move is to try out the combination of Live5 and CW in XTC-mode. This might be the closest thing to a ReasonXTC-concept at the moment.
I'll let you know if it turns out well.

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2005-07-29 18:45 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:23 am

in my case 'Sound' doesn't refer to any fidelity whatsoever.

A single source (as long as we leave out the theoretical omnipotent holo-acustic device) always has a certain 'soundprint' - I dunno why.
You can do a complete production on a Yamaha DB-50-XG, or in Reactor, or FruityLoops or whatever - the sound will always be perceived as 'narrowed', regardless of the overall frequency response.
It's not the point to replace a source by a (potentially) better one - it just has to be different

I absolutely agree that a 'loose' setup with a ton of (independant) sources and processors (like SFP is), can be de-focussing from ideas.

For me personally it's a paradoxon in itself that this over-richness is probably Scope's weakest point in 'musical' context

The merits of Reason as a composition tool and scratchpad (the latter with no disrespect at all) are unquestioned, yet I'd rather prefer to 'catch' an idea that evolved from a spontaneous setup than to rebuild it - but that's just my personal preference.

A lot of 'electronic' tracks that have come to my attention (via streaming on the net) are truely boring (imho) and as such reduce my motivation to search further.

This doesn't apply to what's posted here in the music forum - an amazingly wide range of sounds, usually by a wide range of sources with Reason among them...

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-07-30 06:25 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:51 am

I must say I agree with Tom... using *anything* on its own all the time is limiting in terms of creativity and sound diversity (this includes using Scope exclusively too).

IMHO what makes it worse with stuff like Reason is that it sounds so plastic to my ears.

However if it fulfils a creative function for you - great... I'm personally recently getting into the Devine Machine stuff (DM, Lucifer, Guru) and it's great... I've been approaching my music from different angles which has been creatively refreshing.

[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-07-30 06:52 ]

Cochise · Post by **Cochise** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:25 am

Single monitor fits tight for this job.

Still a question (out of topic this time, but I won't post a new one just for this)

Does anyone know if recent version of Cubase/Nuendo support multiple desktop?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:43 pm

What if Propellerheads and Creamware merged. That would be sweet!

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:59 am

well, I wonder if a reason card for 1000 bucks does make sense?? And a SRB card for the sequencer part?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:16 pm

Then you would have to wonder if a Scope card for $1,000 bucks makes any. The Reason interface on the Scope card would be so ideal.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:07 pm

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:26 am

Braincell - do you mean the ability to plug sockets together with wires? Scope has this, it's called the routing window and modular

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:55 am

and don't forget to open one of the more sophisticated modular patches to be convinced about the overwhelming ergonomic concept of virtual cables...

cheers, tom

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:35 am

Hey, hit the tab key in reason; The wires are all there if you want to use them. Granted the CW Modular is a lot more sophisticated than the Reason Combinator, but the CW GUI interface overall is dismal compaired to Reason. If you doubt this, you simply haven't used Reason for any length of time.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:35 pm

I will install a demo of a more recent version than the one I know, but the 'mode of operation' I remember works great only on a fairly 'simple' setup.

'Simple' does not imply 'bad' - in fact I usually prefer such solutions (that's why I'll never get along with Logic or Cubase), and ReBirth is a great piece of user friendlyness.

there's this Devine Machine loop sequencer (I paid 250 bucks for a native app, so don't call me biased

- it's also pretty simple structured but ends in millions of possibilities.
But you really have to be open minded and aware to get the idea at all, otherwise either nothing's happening or it's confusing.

As Reason is mimicking a 'regular' part of a studio (obviously less powerful than SFP) I just wouldn't have too high expectations (personally).

cheers, Tom

arela · Post by **arela** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:52 am

Reason 3 is "a joy to ride"

Instead of midi out,
you could export a midi track from reason, and import it to your sequenser.

I mix groups in Reason, like 1 for drums and percs, and another for strings etc.
This groups are on seperate rewire-channels.

(i make wave-files of everything, because i think of it as a kind of backup

)

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:38 pm

I agree. A lot of the ideas they came up with are so helpful. For instance you press on a little button and it automatically loads the next sample in the folder into that position on the drum sample player. They should do that with the STS. It is so incredibly tedious to work with the STS samplers.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:39 pm

I simply can’t live without MIDI, I play everything in my MIDI Keyboard and without it, and things would empty to me. I am so use to play everything with a keyboard, that it has become a school over time.

I agree by experience about your approach Astro, as you actually need some different spices to finish the cook.

What I would do most of the time, is getting many instruments ready to play in Cubase and Pulsar, building a match of each other, i.e., I search the instruments I consider to join in good harmony, and createt presets in Cubase and in Pulsar, with the same name. When I feel the need to compose or play, I load what will represent my mood at that very moment, so I don’t loose the “momentum” searching instruments for two hours. Of course, eventually I do, but not when I am inspired, only when I look for new sonorities or, indeed, when I am building new double (SFP-Cubase) presets.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:33 pm

Braincell wrote: Rewires is better than ASIO because you don't have to connect any audio or midi, you don't have to name anything. You can not use the wrong ASIO driver. You simply have to use it for a while to understand how it makes the process smoother.

I hope you're not counting on any PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation) when Rewiring? I've explained the whole issue with that not too long ago here on z... If you have a solution for that problem, please share it with us

I've used Reason, I played live with it in a previous life, mostly cos the guy writing most of the stuff wrote the tracks in Reason. I even (don't tell anyone or I'd have to kill you;) hosted Reason workgroups. I've simply used it as you say. I know the tricks, and still find it oh-so-limited. One song after the other sounds, because of the limited tools I guess, alike. Must be that I'm spoiled by our Scope Modular... I still feel Reason is a Fisher Price style toy, but hey, I have to admit, the kids seem to love it.

That's my personal view on it of course, if you get good stuff out of it, I'd be the last one to say you shouldn't use it eh.