Creamware synths knob resolution (interpolation?)

Man-Machine · Post by **Man-Machine** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:23 pm

Last night while playing with the Profit 5 I noticed if you turn the knobs with the mouse and save your patch and later you come back to it, the parameter value is not the same anymore. This is really annoying if you're trying to not to be out tune. I dont' wanna have to tune a preset every time I recall it. Is it a bug or a resolution limitation of Creamware synths? I mainly create sounds with the mouse and not with my MIDI controller, that's how I found this. I'm assuming that the preset file only saves low parameter resolution values (up to 128?) and the mouse resolution is a higher...

On the other hand, is there any interpolation when you play with your synths parameters live when you twist a knob on your MIDI controller? I haven't hooked up my controller that sends CC# yet to try this. I know this is a big limitation with VSTis. Not many developers accomodate interpolation...

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:34 pm

The internal resolution of the filter should be either 0 to 2147483647 or -2147483647 to 2147483647. Not sure which. The knob will be outputting at that resolution, but your mouse resolution will not be. There should be an interpolation module between the knob's output and the filter, but that's to compensate for your mouse moving around onscreen. Once your mouse arrives at a location and you stop, whatever you hear after that should be what it should be forever. If the preset isn't saving that, something's wrong with their setup. I don't even know how that's possible.

I hope that was clear. The interpolation is to compensate for your mouse resoultion, not the knob's resolution.

Man-Machine · Post by **Man-Machine** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:46 pm

Thank you. I think I understoo your explanation. It solve the zipper noise problem when you are twisting knobs live with a midi controller but you can't stop on the values in between. You're basically stuck with one the 128 values. Is that the same thing with mouse values? Only 128? If that is so, the preset file should contain the exact mouse value then. Sometimes after I recalling a preset the knob value is like one knob tick off from the original knob position. If it's the oscillator frequency knob, that can cause it to be slightly out of tune. Hmmmm... this is either a bug or there's some weird thing in my environment changing values underneath (I already checked that though...)

_________________
L8ter Oscill8ters!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Man-Machine on 2005-01-19 17:10 ]</font>

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:04 pm

-> In presets, the knob's exact value would be stored, with resolution as determined by the developers (CW in this case).
-> Mouse resolution can be quite high, if you set SFP > SCOPE Settings > Global > Pot Movement to 'Round 2'. The further you move the mouse away from the knob, the higher the resolution of the mouse control.
-> For fine tuning, you can also arrow left/right when a knob is selected, this tuning isn't always as fine as the knob's max. internal resolution though.
-> Even when a numerical value for the knob is on the GUI, the internal resolution is usually way higher.

Still, neither of those explain why the knob changes position... If you save and reload a project, does the knob return to the exact position it's been saved at? Cos this would be the same resolution as in the presets, I suppose.

Did you assign a CC# to the knob for it to be controlled from the sequencer? If so, try without CC# assigned, does the problem persist then?

Man-Machine · Post by **Man-Machine** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:22 pm

Yes, the knob position is not exactly the same. If I set two oscillators an octave apart, save and load the preset file again, they're slightly out of tune, the sound warbles rithmically a little bit and I have to readjust the knob. It only happens on certain sounds though...

Good idea! Almost all the knobs have a CC# assigned to them. Maybe the higher resolution needs to get bypassed for this functionality to work, forcing it down to 128. I'm gonna try it out later tonight. This is really weird...

What do you guys use as a reference for making sure your patches are tuned A(440)? Just curious...

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:54 pm

There's some problems w CW's ADSR, when assigned to CC#. I have this problem on Minimax, Inferno, etc. I have to select a couple of presets and/or wiggle the knobs to reset them when they're controlled by MIDI, or they stay inactive (or at 0).

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:42 pm

That's usually true. If a knob is assigned to a CC# then you'd better have some automation coming in, otherwise everything will be reset. If you're not automating anything from your seqencer or wiggling knobs on your keyboard all the time, you'd better disconnect the CCs. Then it really should stay in the exact positions you leave it.

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:46 am

Interesting that you say that the knobs have such high res. How does one access this, though?

I find it quite frustrating on the minimax that there are 2 clicks between each semi-tone on the osc 2 and 3 tuning knobs and would love to be able to control this at a much higher res, even if it was just to be able to set two oscillators every so slightly out of tune.

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:48 am

D'oh. I see at0m|c explained how. Thx

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: suthnear on 2005-01-20 03:52 ]</font>

Man-Machine · Post by **Man-Machine** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:53 pm

Thanks guys. Turning of the CC assignments did the trick to fix the problem