Running Pulsar 2 on Laptop

flux · Post by **flux** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:55 pm

Greetings fellow pulsarians!

After hard saving up, the time has come to update my setup (I need more processor power because my productions are getting more complex).

I was thinking how great it would be to be able to link my Pulsar 2 card onto a Laptop, does anyone know if this is possible? Is there a way to get an breakout type thing for PCI for Laptops?

Also, is anyone else using other processors other than the Pentium series - does the Pulsar 2 run ok on AMD for example, and do the sequencers run ok?

Any help really appreciated

as I am in London now, and could take back to Athens, Greece my new computer - in a few days when my flight is!

tim167 · Post by **tim167** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:15 pm

as far as i know, pulsar2/laptop solutions are limited to only one: the magma box, but it's very expensive (+/-1000€ i think).
i gave up on it for now because i don't feel like paying that much for just a box to put my card in.
maybe i'm considering some kind of "cube"(mini pc) solution later, but for now i stick to very cheap but ok USB soundcards for my laptop.
nonetheless, i too would be glad to hear about any affortable pulsar-laptop link.

btw; would there be any possibility using firewire (instead of pcmcia) for this?

helldriver · Post by **helldriver** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:12 am

go with rmes´ pcmia + multiface (breakoutbox). it ´s the best solution for a laptop i think.
you also can connect your destop pc via adat (pulsar) to multiface´s adat connnection and snchronize your systems with steinbergs systemlink.
but there´s one problem, rme souncard solutions are expensive (1000$ i guess).

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:04 pm

Well, I own both the RME Hammerfall DSP Multiface and the Magma CB2 PCI chassis, and I can tell you that I hardly ever use the RME. The routing system is totally non-intuitive unlike Pulsar, I really really really hate the RME mixer app! However the converters are excellent, and obviously the cost reflects this. My 2 Pulsar1 cards in the Magma give me 4 analog ins, which is plenty for my usual uses, and because it is outside of a normal computer there is much less noise on the converters.

In terms of price, the Magma is really not too bad. You can get the following :

32-bit 2 Slot CardBus-to-PCI Expansion System (90W internal power supply). Includes MAGMA CardBus host interface card and 1-meter 68-pin PCI Expansion cable. CB2 $895

(link : http://www.magma.com/pci/2slot_main.html )

This is probably the best-value model. There is a 1-slot which is much sleeker, however it costs much the same as the 2 slot. The 2 slot in fact has 3 slots - the 3rd one has a slightly smaller bracket and is designed for hard disk controller cards. This is because the CB2 has space for 2 3.5" hard drives. I have the IDE option in mine - you can add this whenever you want however.

The performance is stunning, and as rock solid as on my previous CUSL2 pulsar box.

peace

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:41 pm

I've been looking at such an option, but I'd probably use it for a Scope /SP and Pulsar II. My 1 question for you is, do you see a good place on the thing for a bracket mount for the SCOPE sync plate? I have a laptop, and need an audio only machine, but I'd need to keep the audio related stuff on separate HD's as a 60GB laptop drive won't cut it (I'll probably need to dual boot it -maybe even triple boot so as to include Linux) The thought of getting a USB/firewire HD just seems like too much shite to haul around (after all it's supposed to be portable right?) so I'd need to use the ATA controller (or maybe even SATA), but what about a place that I might even be able to do my own mod to the thing. Is it metal? Heavy plastic? Can you see a decent place for such a thing?

Lot of data requested, I realize, but any assistance would be kewl.

Sam

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:34 am

Well, not sure about how suitable the sync plate would be, as I've never seen one. The CB2 has 3 PCI slots. 2 of these have a normal bracket. 1 of them has a slightly thinner bracket opening, and it is specifically designed for a disk i/o card which either has no need for an external connector (ATA card) or certain SCSI cards which have quite a thin connector (my one came with the Atto cross-platform SCSI card).
At a push, you could use one of the brackets for the sync plate, but you would lose the IDE controller. It may certainly be possible to remove the bracket from the IDE card and somehow have both that and the sync plate in operation but thats obviously one for your own modding skills.

I personally use the HDs in my magma for sample/media storage : I don't really like to waste the PCMCIA traffic on disk streams when theres the possibility it might reduce the bandwidth available to Pulsar. However, I have, for example, copied files across my network from the magma drives while songs have been playing, with no problems.

The construction of the thing is similar to a computer case, it has a PSU that you can take out etc. It is all metal that I can see, except the PCBs and stuff.

hope this helps, I'll see if maybe I can find some time to take some pictures of the interior of the box. Don't know when this is gonna be though.

peace

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:41 pm

Well I got the Magma Chassis, a Scope SP and am using with my pulsar II. I'm currently testing the Toshiba P25-S507 (meaning I bought it and have 15 days to return it). So far there are issues with the install, but I think they are related to Hyperthreading, so I'll have to play with that a bit. I also can't seem to get more than 3 MasterVerbs, 4 if I load them incrementally, 3 if I open a project with them in it. I figured that a Toshiba cardbus and a laptop with the intrepid 865PE+ICH5 chipsets from Intel would get me to 5 at least. I suppose it doesn't really matter so long as I can use all my projects without problems. Has anyone gotten above 3-4 Masterverbs with a Magma chassis? I'm beginning to believe that it may be a PCMCIA limitation as the Gateway Solo I was testing with before had Intel chipsets and a Texas instruments cardbus controller and gave me the same results. With the exception that it also happened to crash incessantly and corrupt my .pro files. No fun.

Anyway, if you all had the chance to really run a new laptop through its paces, what would you do in addition to the masterverb tests?

Sam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dehuszar on 2003-08-02 14:43 ]</font>

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 6:02 pm

While we're on the topic, can any and all Magma users give a rundown of what laptops they're using # o DSPs, and # of masterverbs they can load before the system shits the bed? I feel like I need a reference point for this.

Sam

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:59 am

I'll try and do some tests this evening.

I would be very surprised if I got more than 3 masterverbs before the PCI limit though. In normal use, it is extremely rare to get any PCI errors.

peace

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:55 pm

What about track count? Also, how many DSPs do you have vs. how many can you load?

Thanks,

Sam

p.s. any chance you could post your machine specs/chipsets (cardbus controller and north/south bridge chipsets)

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:14 pm

Sorry but it's incredibly hot here at the moment and the last thing on my mind is doing tests

My machine is a Dell Inspiron 8100 - it has intel 815 chipset, 1.2ghz p3, and 512mb PC133. I'll get back to you on what the Cardbus controller is, as I've just shut down the rig for the night, and sleep is on the cards

I really don't think track count is going to be very helpful in this case as it is probably going to be more restricted by the 4200rpm hard disk and the CPU and RAM overhead of running Logic and SFP, before any kind of PCI limit kicks in. There are so many possible combinations of gear, for example firewire HDs, using IDE controller and HD inside the Magma etc, and I'm sure I'd get different figures for all of them.

However, I just can't justify these endless tests right now... all I could say is that the Dell+Magma combo runs every single project I ran on my previous CUSL2 board, with the same latency (I only have Pulsar 1 hardware, so the latency is limited to 13ms anyway). I get PCI overflows just as rarely now as I did then.

peace

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:48 pm

Good to know. I've pretty much narrowed the search down to a Dell workstation laptop. The Precision M60 I believe it's called. It's a bit expensive, but has options for things like 7200 rpm 60GB HDs and such. I also think that it'll have a decent motherboard.

This new push for laptop sales (I think they outsell desktops now) are having the result of VIA equivelent mobos packed with top notch parts, so they're powerful for basic consumer work, but for professional work they aren't all there.

I say this because I've now tested about 5 different laptops, all of which contained top notch chipsets and Texas Instruments cardbus adapters, but Intel didn't actually make the mobo, just the chip(sets), and older Pentium IIIs that they built from the ground up all work great with the Creamware stuff but all the new stuff does not.

I think this is because 2-3 years ago, no one but professionals bought laptops, so it didn't make sense to cut cost corners because you'd lose the market you were aiming for. But now that laptops are general consumption you have to buy the inflated priced 'corporate/workstation' machines to get something as solidly built as the Dell 8100s or Gateway Solo9550s, etc.

Incidentally, I just tested out 2 Gateway centrino laptops today, both had Intel chipsets and Texas Instruments cardbus controllers, one had an ALi, one had an Intel mobo. Neither of them worked. The 855/ICH3 chipsets were awesome for desktop systems as were the 865PE/ICH5 chipsets, installed in the Toshiba I'm returning to CompUSA tomorrow.

They all had the right parts, just none of the 'professional' design. Or so I speculate. This is the only explanation I can come up with.

I'm going to order the Dell once the Toshiba is credited back and in 10 days I should be able to test my theory. I can't believe what a pain in the ass this is. Unbelievable.

The world is getting a lot smaller for us specialized hardware people in so far as options are concerned. The market is more and more selling shite in volume, reserving high quality kit for those who can blow the big cash.

In my opinion this is the only limitation of the Creamware system (besides a few odds and ends), in order to gain full access to all its glory you really have to build up the machine around it. I pray for the day when self-built laptops become standard fare.

This flexing-the-return-policy nonsense is getting old really fast.

I'll keep yall posted.

Sam

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:11 pm

On 2003-08-05 20:14, dArKr3zIn wrote:
I really don't think track count is going to be very helpful in this case as it is probably going to be more restricted by the 4200rpm hard disk and the CPU and RAM overhead of running Logic and SFP, before any kind of PCI limit kicks in.

On my Gateway Solo 9550, I could get 5 Masterverbs or 32 tracks @ 32bit/44.1kHz before getting PCI limit errors. In general use, I got around 2 verbs and about 20 tracks of audio. But in either scenario I could fill up all 21 DSPs with synths and whatnot, no problem.

In this case it was the PCI bandwidth needed by the ASIO drivers that produced overflow errors. And I'm pretty sure it's a 4200rpm drive. I don't think the 5400s were really out and about in PIII laptops.

Were it not for the fact that the laptop had this nasty habit of locking up the touchpad and keyboard and corrupting my .pro files I'd be using that instead of all this hunting about. I just know that if I send in the laptop to Gateway they wouldn't be able to recreate the problem, not send it back to me for a month and I'd still not have a working machine. And the thought of buying another refurbished model makes me queasy.

They took 7 months to send me the proper piece of RAM this past year. 7.

Dell is starting to join them in crappy service-dom, but if you buy a 'business machine' you get business support. You buy consumer stuff and it's some jackass with a flowchart answering your calls.

Tip to everyone... if you are planning on buying a computer from a Dell/Gateway-like company, tell them you are purchasing for your company, even if you have to make up a name for your faux-business. They'll send you to people who know what they're talking about. If you tell them you're buying for home/personal use they send you to the guys who just got fired from Best Buy (or the ones that got thrown in jail).

Sam

Grizzly · Post by **Grizzly** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:53 pm

So people are using the Pulsar cards with either Dell or Gateway professional laptops with P3 motherboards and Magma breakout boxes. Anyone know of other manufacturers laptops that will work with P4 motherboards in conjunction with the Pulsar? I'm looking to get a laptop too and want to hook up my Pulsar 2 eventually, I just don't have enough cash to do it right now. I want to know if the system will work and can't just hook it all up and see if it will and have the luxury of returning it within 15 days. Any suggestions?

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:55 am

Actually, Sam was saying that it wasn't working too well on his Gateway. I have had no problems on my Dell however.

I have had no experience with P4 laptops so far except a Sony Vaio - steer clear of these, they are shockingly bad.

peace

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:29 am

I've got the new Dell Precision M60 workstation laptop being built for me as we speak. When it arrives, I'll give the full rundown. Oddly enough, Dell hasn't clue one as to what the motherboard is, though they think it 'might' be an ASUS. I pray to never have to use their tech support.

Anyway, I'll let you know soon. Hopefully it'll be good news.

Sam

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:33 am

True, my Gateway isn't working well with the Magma, but I think it may be my specific Gateway as it's a recommended laptop on Magma's chart.

Also, in response to the unaddressed portion of flux's original question, don't bother with AMD for laptops. I'd love to tell you otherwise, but they simply do not have any chipsets for laptops with any reputation for wide PCI busses.

Were nVidia to release an nForce mobile mobo, then I'd go out on a limb and say, "make sure you can return it, just in case" which I'd say anyway. But SiS and ALi are their primary mobo manufacturers right now. No es bueno.

Hope that helps,
Sam

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:21 pm

Okay, so far so good, though I've been getting lots of pops, clicks, etc. I think I can get rid of them, and perhaps even get more trackcount if I can just get the cardbus controller and My creamware cards off of the IRQ which is also occupied by the ethernet, WiFi, USB controllers, video card, onboard audio, and firewire devices.

I'm using Standard PC so I think that's how they're set to share in the BIOS. I recall there being a trick to getting Win2k/XP to ignore the BIOS and allow user-selectable IRQs but I can't for the life of me remember what it is.

I'm waiting on hold for a Dell representative as we speak, but I'm listening to wanky-solo'd slow jam hold music and if someone could mercifully chime in before I gouge my ear canals out I'd appreciate it.

There outta be a law.

Sam

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:32 pm

On my Dell 8100, the Magma and Pulsars share IRQ's with the firewire and ethernet controllers. They also would be sharing with USB and the modem but I turned those off

I'm using standard PC on mine, but with a newer machine like yours I would recommend an ACPI install.

Good luck getting to the bottom of the problem, and let us know how it turns out

peace

Volkmar123 · Post by **Volkmar123** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:23 am

Happy to meet you folks.

So I need help, and have not found anybody so far,
having a running windows xp, sfp notebook system.

So I got a magma cb2, and pulsarI +pulsar XTC card
and do not get to run it, for playing STS Sampler, on newer (centrino) notebooks

I tried more then 6 notebooks
(toshiba, gericom, sony, fujitsu, hp, bullman...)
and did get a "pci capacity limit reached"
message, way too soon.
(with noe of the notebooks I could use all my 10 dsp playing the sampler)

Can you do it ?,using new notebook + wondows xp ?

regards
Volkmar