here in the netherlands we have a saying "wie niet horen wil, moet voelen".
roughly translated, it means "those who don't want to listen, will have to feel".
In this case I think DAS are incapable of listening, or if they do listen they are incapable of interpreting whatever is said in any other way than a personal attack on DAS. Let them feel the banning stick. At least partially like suggested before. They can still post their device announcements, but anything else should be mercilessly deleted.
You cannot keep asking people to behave without at some point attaching some consequences to it.
This forum is dying a slow and painful death
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King of Snake
- Posts: 1544
- Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: the Netherlands
- Contact:
Hi John , in few days it will be 6 years that i discovered PZ .
-I have always been treated with respect and dignity and good vibes ,
nobody has ever told me I'm better than you, you know nothing , i know the truth , don't do that or this , you are shit , you blabla .
I've always seen good vibes.
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Now , if a pro company like xxx or pro develloper or who ever is making money , see here on pz something considered illegal and that could affect drastically their business (like codes to crack their products) , they can gently contact the admin and the messages affecting their business could be removed very fast.
This can be done in a very relax way.(i don't think that 1 pz public post could kill a company)
It might be good to put a very visible disclaimer adressed to Professionals.
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PZ as far as i understood is not a commercial platform and this forum is not sponsored by companies , so professional shall consider this site as a positive and free of charge opportunity to contact about 3000 potential customers.(like me myself and I )
Ònly for that reason they shall revert on pz in a professional manners. and demonstrate that they are intelligent , stable and calm in their way of thinking(tha's the base to make a customer confident)
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For new private members or people representing companies , the first insult shall be warned 1 time and second insult=banning
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i do not defend old members but they have all here demonstrate during years that they are cool and respectfull of others.
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I want soon to make rework my old pulsar , see you in coming months and years
long live to Z
thanks John you're a great person.
-I have always been treated with respect and dignity and good vibes ,
nobody has ever told me I'm better than you, you know nothing , i know the truth , don't do that or this , you are shit , you blabla .
I've always seen good vibes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now , if a pro company like xxx or pro develloper or who ever is making money , see here on pz something considered illegal and that could affect drastically their business (like codes to crack their products) , they can gently contact the admin and the messages affecting their business could be removed very fast.
This can be done in a very relax way.(i don't think that 1 pz public post could kill a company)
It might be good to put a very visible disclaimer adressed to Professionals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PZ as far as i understood is not a commercial platform and this forum is not sponsored by companies , so professional shall consider this site as a positive and free of charge opportunity to contact about 3000 potential customers.(like me myself and I )
Ònly for that reason they shall revert on pz in a professional manners. and demonstrate that they are intelligent , stable and calm in their way of thinking(tha's the base to make a customer confident)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For new private members or people representing companies , the first insult shall be warned 1 time and second insult=banning
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i do not defend old members but they have all here demonstrate during years that they are cool and respectfull of others.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want soon to make rework my old pulsar , see you in coming months and years
long live to Z
thanks John you're a great person.
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hubird
Couldn't have said it better.coc999 wrote:PZ as far as i understood is not a commercial platform and this forum is not sponsored by companies , so professional shall consider this site as a positive and free of charge opportunity to contact about 3000 potential customers.(like me myself and I )
The independancy of a sound forum is the best condition to serve the goals of all developers, positive comments on plugs by people speeking in freedom is the best promotion a developer can wish himself.
Having to fear unrealistic public attacks by a developer when critisizing his plugs is totally contraproductive from the developers point of view, and undermines the basic strength of the forum itself.
Simply ignoring the attacks and insultants sounds terrific and peacefull, and could work between real people together, on an internet forum with an expanding number of members, I honestly don't believe this has any chance unless for a short time-out period.
Should we send a long pm to every new member asking him to do what we do, and why?
That won't work, with or without me as a hunting dog (if you want).
I'll try to hold back for as long as I can, just to show some planetz friends who did or did not pm me lately my respect.
Better would be if the case really could be closed.
Cheers to all (pro and SDK) developers who do a great job regarding the way they perform on planetz.
They respect us, and we respect them, and therefor they are 'just' planetz friends.
Too true not to repeat that once again
I think all 3rd party developers should be banned for addicting me to an uncurable disease. In medical circles it's known as 3PDDA. 3rd Party Developers Device Addiction.
There is no known cure as of yet, the symptoms start w/ convulsions, and naussea, leading to seizures, and epilyptic fits. There are ways to alleviate the syptoms temporarily by having Mehdi, Wolf, DAS, Shroomz, SHARC, MYCCYRANO, Bowen, DJMicron, Warp69, and others build me custom devices. This is only temporary alleviation though, as Mehdi will tell. He just finished making the FB5 and I had a seizure while performing @ the gig. I woke up to see these giant breasts in my face of the Waittail cocktress ( Sorry, Fruedian slip, the Cocktail Waitress ) and a huge frozen mug of Jaegermeister, so it wasn't bad. I immediately emailed SpaceF-devices for another device to be made.
So in my eyes, these 3rd party guys are all Wolves in Sheeps clothing, and have caused me much suffering and pain with their addicting software.
Those are your true criminals. My attorneys are drawing up the papers as we speak.
Junkie Jim
There is no known cure as of yet, the symptoms start w/ convulsions, and naussea, leading to seizures, and epilyptic fits. There are ways to alleviate the syptoms temporarily by having Mehdi, Wolf, DAS, Shroomz, SHARC, MYCCYRANO, Bowen, DJMicron, Warp69, and others build me custom devices. This is only temporary alleviation though, as Mehdi will tell. He just finished making the FB5 and I had a seizure while performing @ the gig. I woke up to see these giant breasts in my face of the Waittail cocktress ( Sorry, Fruedian slip, the Cocktail Waitress ) and a huge frozen mug of Jaegermeister, so it wasn't bad. I immediately emailed SpaceF-devices for another device to be made.
So in my eyes, these 3rd party guys are all Wolves in Sheeps clothing, and have caused me much suffering and pain with their addicting software.
Those are your true criminals. My attorneys are drawing up the papers as we speak.
Junkie Jim
das doesn't have anything to lose
i don't think das has anything to lose, people will still buy a good plug at that price, i myself have only seen them in the light of their ability to bring me good gear, and sounds, and at a great price, many into the polemics aren't aspiring sound mixers/engineers at all , john, and only play at it, if this forum was just open to chatting and not the passion of sound, then what good would it be?,,
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kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: BPM 60 to somewhere around 150
- Contact:
Completely agreed. This is one of the coolest things about this platform. Even more so since the SDK came out. And I hate it how this whole issue seems to punch a big whole in this user / developer relationship.hubird wrote: Cheers to all (pro and SDK) developers who do a great job regarding the way they perform on planetz.
They respect us, and we respect them, and therefor they are 'just' planetz friends.
hi all,
i can remark this "early "morning that the "lynching" is going on ...
So, that's life !
but there's a question unanswered yet : except us DAS who is (or are) the other(s) involved parties ??? anyone (john) can give us the answer ?
BTW, do we have a "Right (law) of response" (Droit de réponse in french) ???
I propose to start a thread that could be :
Of course, in this thread :
we would prefer that only customers (there are enough to have a good (or bad) general opinion - one more this morning ) and users could post,
the ones who just tried the demo should not
And for Sure "basic ANTI DAS" (i mean anti the guys or the company itself) should not !!!
Should this be possible ?
cheers
olive
i can remark this "early "morning that the "lynching" is going on ...
So, that's life !
but there's a question unanswered yet : except us DAS who is (or are) the other(s) involved parties ??? anyone (john) can give us the answer ?
BTW, do we have a "Right (law) of response" (Droit de réponse in french) ???
I propose to start a thread that could be :
Subject : I own a DAS Plug, use it daily and enjot it
Body :
Plug (or plugs) : DAS ......
What for i use it : ......
Support quality : ......
General opinion : ......
Of course, in this thread :
we would prefer that only customers (there are enough to have a good (or bad) general opinion - one more this morning
) and users could post, the ones who just tried the demo should not
And for Sure "basic ANTI DAS" (i mean anti the guys or the company itself) should not !!!
Should this be possible ?
cheers
olive
well, you might want to stop the release of demos and your wish will be fullfilledsonolive wrote:...Of course, in this thread :
we would prefer that only customers (... ) and users could post,
the ones who just tried the demo should not...
aside from that I prefer to not comment this sentence any further...
there is no basic anti-DAS attitude here regarding the company and it's products. But a certain 'public acting' of company members will have an influence on the enterprises image - no wonder and no a big secret either.
the one and only reason for constant trouble is Eric's personal way of communication. He has been told about this from numerous sides and still insists that he doesn't need to care (at least that's how it looks)
imho it is in no way tolerable that he claims a right to offend other members (if he feels it's apppropriate), but noone else is allowed to even mention anything related to 'his job', let a lone make a critical remark about a product.
he can do that in his own forum, but not in a public one that has a several years long tradition of handling controversial discussion - and a great reputation in this domain.
Eric has to accept the rules or just shut up - it is really that simple
as a few french members brought to notice this is not the first time that he's involved in similiar trouble, so it should be clear who's supposed to change something
cheers, Tom
Olive, I have not tried your devices. So maybe they are the best and I just do not know. However, this is not about the quality of your devices. This is about the fact, that even if you made a "Magic Grammy Winner Button" that will make us all rich just by pushing it, that does not change the fact that you (and everybody else) have to speak (write) to others with the same respect as the rest of us.
The fact is, that many people here feel that DAS has been disrespectful in their way of writing on Z. You may feel it is the other way around, but from the side-line, it looks to me as if the majority feels that DAS is the offending part. Honestly, I myself think that most of the offending stuff came from DAS.
And here is another thing. You can see clearly in this thread, that many people are sad about the way Z has been lately. On top of that, John is sad about it. This is not good. In fact, this can become the end of Z as I see it (but this is guessing). John is doing this for free for us. I really believe that he does it for us and very little for himself. Actually his own gain from doing this for us might be the joy of helping others. So at the core level Z is living on John having joy from helping us. So if this turns into more pain than joy for him ... why should he continue?
I believe this is the most important part for most people on Z (I am sorry to speak of you in such an utilitarian way John. I hope you know there is a lot of true respect going toward your person). People on Z want Z to survive. That is the basic. On top of that, they want Z back in the good mood it usually is in. I really think it is that simple.
And if people have to choose between:
1) No Z
2) Z with a bad mood
3) Z with a good mood and a few members banned
.... I think most people will go for option 3. Now the problem for DAS is, that many people feel, that if DAS goes away, the problem is fixed. I think that far less people believe that getting rid of Hubird, Tom, Gary, Me, Mr Arkadin, Shroomz, MCCYRANO, "our newest member" or anyone else - directly involved in the current shit or not - will fix the problems on Z. You may think about this in another way. But your problem is, that this is likely how most people on Z thinks.
Therefor I really do think, that unless DAS stop their part of the negativity, John will eventually have to choose between the 3 options above. And I do believe that DAS will be the ones leaving Z.
Use this for whatever you want. I have done my best to stay as much out of this conflict as possible, and this is my view on things around here.
And if you want to know my personal opinion. I would go for option 3. And having been a member of Z for many years now, I know that Z can live in peace with all the other members mentioned in this post (directly involved in the current issues or not), I would vote DAS out if it came that far - simply because I think that would be the most efficient solution. Now, as you can see other places in this thread, I do not say that this is 100% DAS's fault. But for my (big?) ego a peaceful Z is better than a dysfunctional Z with DAS as members.
Personally, I think a few people need an apology for hasted accusations towards them.
Ok, now you have the choice to say, that I don't see things clearly or that I am "part of the enemy". You also have the choice to see this as a very open and honest description of the situation as seen by someone who really tried to stay out of the shit and to keep an unbiased view of things (this is never possible, but one can try hard and get close). If you see it like that (and if I am right in my view of most members way of seeing things here on Z), then this long post may even be useful to you.
I spend more than a full hour of my Sunday writing this. I imagine John spends a lot more time on these issues. I find that sad. Here are a couple of pictures of what John can not spend his time on, when he is busy trying to deal with the problems on Z.
The fact is, that many people here feel that DAS has been disrespectful in their way of writing on Z. You may feel it is the other way around, but from the side-line, it looks to me as if the majority feels that DAS is the offending part. Honestly, I myself think that most of the offending stuff came from DAS.
And here is another thing. You can see clearly in this thread, that many people are sad about the way Z has been lately. On top of that, John is sad about it. This is not good. In fact, this can become the end of Z as I see it (but this is guessing). John is doing this for free for us. I really believe that he does it for us and very little for himself. Actually his own gain from doing this for us might be the joy of helping others. So at the core level Z is living on John having joy from helping us. So if this turns into more pain than joy for him ... why should he continue?
I believe this is the most important part for most people on Z (I am sorry to speak of you in such an utilitarian way John. I hope you know there is a lot of true respect going toward your person). People on Z want Z to survive. That is the basic. On top of that, they want Z back in the good mood it usually is in. I really think it is that simple.
And if people have to choose between:
1) No Z
2) Z with a bad mood
3) Z with a good mood and a few members banned
.... I think most people will go for option 3. Now the problem for DAS is, that many people feel, that if DAS goes away, the problem is fixed. I think that far less people believe that getting rid of Hubird, Tom, Gary, Me, Mr Arkadin, Shroomz, MCCYRANO, "our newest member" or anyone else - directly involved in the current shit or not - will fix the problems on Z. You may think about this in another way. But your problem is, that this is likely how most people on Z thinks.
Therefor I really do think, that unless DAS stop their part of the negativity, John will eventually have to choose between the 3 options above. And I do believe that DAS will be the ones leaving Z.
Use this for whatever you want. I have done my best to stay as much out of this conflict as possible, and this is my view on things around here.
And if you want to know my personal opinion. I would go for option 3. And having been a member of Z for many years now, I know that Z can live in peace with all the other members mentioned in this post (directly involved in the current issues or not), I would vote DAS out if it came that far - simply because I think that would be the most efficient solution. Now, as you can see other places in this thread, I do not say that this is 100% DAS's fault. But for my (big?) ego a peaceful Z is better than a dysfunctional Z with DAS as members.
Personally, I think a few people need an apology for hasted accusations towards them.
Ok, now you have the choice to say, that I don't see things clearly or that I am "part of the enemy". You also have the choice to see this as a very open and honest description of the situation as seen by someone who really tried to stay out of the shit and to keep an unbiased view of things (this is never possible, but one can try hard and get close). If you see it like that (and if I am right in my view of most members way of seeing things here on Z), then this long post may even be useful to you.
I spend more than a full hour of my Sunday writing this. I imagine John spends a lot more time on these issues. I find that sad. Here are a couple of pictures of what John can not spend his time on, when he is busy trying to deal with the problems on Z.
- Attachments
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- Here is John with his lovely daughters:
- DSC06515.jpg (53.87 KiB) Viewed 4292 times
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- The three beautiful women John gets home to, when he gets off from work:
- DSC07182.jpg (89.52 KiB) Viewed 4292 times
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Dear oh dear, you're still missing the point aren't you? Everyone else is wrong in your eyes, you're right. Fair enough. You absolutely refuse to move an inch on your stance. BTW i have purposely not asked for you to be completely banned in any of my postings because i was hoping that you might alter your attitude somewhat and that talk of banning wouldn't have to come up. It's still not too late but you have to admit when you're wrong (i had to recently when i wrote and offensive reply, i retracted it because in hindsight - and with some sleep - i realised it was out of order). At no point have i seen any real attempts by DAS to retract anything or apologise - i don't think you can really count Eric's half-arsed attempts at peace.sonolive wrote:hi all,
i can remark this "early "morning that the "lynching" is going on ...
So basically you want a free advert. If you want ads then:sonolive wrote:I propose to start a thread that could be :
Subject : I own a DAS Plug, use it daily and enjot it
Body :
Plug (or plugs) : DAS ......
What for i use it : ......
Support quality : ......
General opinion : ......
Of course, in this thread :
we would prefer that only customers (there are enough to have a good (or bad) general opinion - one more this morning
the ones who just tried the demo should not
a) Start your own forum
b) Put out an ad in a trade mag - which costs money.
"What about all the threads praising John Bowen, space f, shroomz, et al with no criticism," i hear you ask. Well those are spontaneous threads created by happy users and not in any way instigated by the developers themselves
.BTW people who have tried the demo and not bought it have an opinion too.
But don't listen to me - i am the enemy - listen to Immanuel , his words resonate with the truth of the situation and he is trying to give to an unbiased, balanced view of the situation.
Yours,
mythoman.
PS. Thanks for the pics Immanuel - sometimes it's easy to forget there are actual human beings behind these words. And they have lives outside of the Z too! Who'd have thunk it?!
dear john
just a thought
ALL involved could sign a spezialaggreement to
1. not post in the otherones topics
2. nor call their names
3. nor make coments or sidenotes of their work
if one act against warn and bann!
----------------
could write a routine thatfor if you give me source code;
but that would take time!!
let things cool down for a while;
--------
i tried to bring hot air out of it a few times with no success!
please let planetz alive!!!!
ps im absolutely *?ß0 for wasting my post 100 for this s*hit!!!!!!!
but if planetz dies who cares about post 100?
if thers a post 101 its of absolutely technical musicrelated scope stuff;
good vibes from vienna
just a thought
ALL involved could sign a spezialaggreement to
1. not post in the otherones topics
2. nor call their names
3. nor make coments or sidenotes of their work
if one act against warn and bann!
----------------
could write a routine thatfor if you give me source code;
but that would take time!!
let things cool down for a while;
--------
i tried to bring hot air out of it a few times with no success!
please let planetz alive!!!!
ps im absolutely *?ß0 for wasting my post 100 for this s*hit!!!!!!!
but if planetz dies who cares about post 100?
if thers a post 101 its of absolutely technical musicrelated scope stuff;
good vibes from vienna
tgstgs - it is clear, that you have your good heart in this, but I think it is not a good solution to have special rules where some people are not allowed to post in other peoples threads. They should just learn to behave. It is as simple as that. The other thing is just having an open but silent war, and John and the members will be reminded indirectly of this all the time.
I have this other thought:
I think everybody can make a difference. I even think everybody involved can stop this. It takes 2 to fight. If one side is not fighting, there is no fight, and the other side will have the choice to look stupid or stop fighting too.
You see, you don't have to sign a peace with the other part to make peace in a situation like this. If you just sign it with yourself and follow it, then the other part will not have a choice.
So I ask both sides in this conflict to sign their own peace. If the other side keeps on fighting repeatedly, then it is clear who to get rid of to end this "war". As long as both sides are fighting, it is one big complicated mess.
This might not be justice to individuals. Things have been said. Feelings have been hurt. But it will be fair toward John. And it will be good for Z.
Immanuel
I have this other thought:
I think everybody can make a difference. I even think everybody involved can stop this. It takes 2 to fight. If one side is not fighting, there is no fight, and the other side will have the choice to look stupid or stop fighting too.
You see, you don't have to sign a peace with the other part to make peace in a situation like this. If you just sign it with yourself and follow it, then the other part will not have a choice.
So I ask both sides in this conflict to sign their own peace. If the other side keeps on fighting repeatedly, then it is clear who to get rid of to end this "war". As long as both sides are fighting, it is one big complicated mess.
This might not be justice to individuals. Things have been said. Feelings have been hurt. But it will be fair toward John. And it will be good for Z.
Immanuel
I have this other thought:
I think everybody can make a difference. I even think everybody involved can stop this. It takes 2 to fight. If one side is not fighting, there is no fight, and the other side will have the choice to look stupid or stop fighting too.
---------
well said!
hope your words a heard and the vibes come from ear to heart and (brain of course)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think everybody can make a difference. I even think everybody involved can stop this. It takes 2 to fight. If one side is not fighting, there is no fight, and the other side will have the choice to look stupid or stop fighting too.
---------
well said!
hope your words a heard and the vibes come from ear to heart and (brain of course)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
As much as this is true, one cannot allow people to just spout off willy nilly accusations without some form of rebuttel, this just allows DAS (in this case) to spout their shit with no comeback. People cannot be expected to sit back and not respond in the hope that DAS (or whoever) will shut up - this just makes them seem exempt from the rules that we're all supposed to follow.Immanuel wrote: I have this other thought:
I think everybody can make a difference. I even think everybody involved can stop this. It takes 2 to fight. If one side is not fighting, there is no fight, and the other side will have the choice to look stupid or stop fighting too.