Are there 1:1 versions of the original VS factory sounds for the Scope/NOAH Vectron?
cheers,
kybernaut
Original Prophet VS Presets for Vectron?
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
Alright, so I guess this is for a reason (copyright etc...)?
The guy from VectorSector is probably in a different position, as far as copyright goes.
Anyway, the reason I ask is that I'm finding the provided patches "modest" to say the least... Also I was looking for a way to better compare the sound characteristics of Vectron and VectorSector.
The guy from VectorSector is probably in a different position, as far as copyright goes.
Anyway, the reason I ask is that I'm finding the provided patches "modest" to say the least... Also I was looking for a way to better compare the sound characteristics of Vectron and VectorSector.
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
Hi,
re: legality of approximations of factory presets - I'm no expert in IP (intellectual property) law, but it would seem to me that the approximation of any instruments' presets are not an infringement on the intellectual property rights. Using the exact data from the presets, however, would be an infringement without the consent of the IP owner.
Which brings me to the second question regarding the waveshapes used in Vectron. Here's the background story:
The waveshapes were generated by a software program created in 1985 by Sequential engineer Josh Jeffe (now producing the VectorSector VSTi). You could manipulate the harmonics by either entering numbers for each one, or simply sliding a mouse controller around in a graphic representation of a waveshape, and listen to the result, since it was all being generated in real-time. Almost ALL of the factory Prophet VS waveshapes were created by me using this 'mouse sweep' technique - I would try different things, and just save waveshapes when I liked what I heard (the empirical method, you might say). A couple were made by Josh, who used his own voice as a sample source, and I even tried to recreate 8 waveforms by visually estimating the harmonic structure from little drawings of the harmonics found on the panel of another synth! Finally, some of the last group of waveshapes I created just to have some logical relationship - saw or pulse waves in octaves, 2+ octaves combined, octave+5th, etc.
Of course, as we were all employees of Sequential Circuits at the time, any data created became the intellectual property of Sequential Circuits. All of the IP was sold to Yamaha in December of 1987, and remains property of Yamaha to this day.
Although not provided by me, it is my understanding that the waveshapes used in the Vectron came from original data tapes of the Sequential Prophet VS, so these waveshapes should be identical. This same data was also allegedly provided to Dave Smith for use in his Evolver synth. (I don't know about Josh's sources for the VectorSector.) As a synth designer, it seems to me that without
the expressed written consent of the owner, any use of original data found inside a specific synthesizer could constitute an infringement of intellectual property rights.
re: legality of approximations of factory presets - I'm no expert in IP (intellectual property) law, but it would seem to me that the approximation of any instruments' presets are not an infringement on the intellectual property rights. Using the exact data from the presets, however, would be an infringement without the consent of the IP owner.
Which brings me to the second question regarding the waveshapes used in Vectron. Here's the background story:
The waveshapes were generated by a software program created in 1985 by Sequential engineer Josh Jeffe (now producing the VectorSector VSTi). You could manipulate the harmonics by either entering numbers for each one, or simply sliding a mouse controller around in a graphic representation of a waveshape, and listen to the result, since it was all being generated in real-time. Almost ALL of the factory Prophet VS waveshapes were created by me using this 'mouse sweep' technique - I would try different things, and just save waveshapes when I liked what I heard (the empirical method, you might say). A couple were made by Josh, who used his own voice as a sample source, and I even tried to recreate 8 waveforms by visually estimating the harmonic structure from little drawings of the harmonics found on the panel of another synth! Finally, some of the last group of waveshapes I created just to have some logical relationship - saw or pulse waves in octaves, 2+ octaves combined, octave+5th, etc.
Of course, as we were all employees of Sequential Circuits at the time, any data created became the intellectual property of Sequential Circuits. All of the IP was sold to Yamaha in December of 1987, and remains property of Yamaha to this day.
Although not provided by me, it is my understanding that the waveshapes used in the Vectron came from original data tapes of the Sequential Prophet VS, so these waveshapes should be identical. This same data was also allegedly provided to Dave Smith for use in his Evolver synth. (I don't know about Josh's sources for the VectorSector.) As a synth designer, it seems to me that without
the expressed written consent of the owner, any use of original data found inside a specific synthesizer could constitute an infringement of intellectual property rights.
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
OK, I loaded the Vectron's Oscillator (Modular III Wavetable OSC) and a Demo version of VectorSector. Here's what I found:
It appears that Josh perhaps just downloaded or somehow got the data out of a hardware VS; the user waveshapes 0-31 have some data in them, but they were never specified. Starting with waveshape #32, then is the correct series of factory waveshapes...they start with the basic shapes - 32 = sine, 33 = saw, and 34 = square. After that was just the waves as created, all the way up to 125, then 126 was left silent, to have a way to mute one or more corners of the VS mix.
In the Vectron, the #32 Sine is called 'SineWave', following the four Pre:A/B/C/D Sawtooth shapes. So, if you start counting the Vectron's waveshapes from there, you have the same data as the VectorSector, up until #125, called 'Annoys Dog' in the Vectron. Then there are a number of extra waveshapes added by whoever at CW did them, with the silent wave position named 'ReadingRoom' after all those.
By the way, the VectorSector presets sure sound like the original factory presets I did, so...perhaps he was able to take a data dump of the presets there and accurately emulate each parameter range, etc.?
Unfortunately, I no longer have my VS Rack for a real comparision test - I sold it in Japan many years ago.
Hope this helps,
cheers,
john b.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: johnbowen on 2005-12-06 13:57 ]</font>
It appears that Josh perhaps just downloaded or somehow got the data out of a hardware VS; the user waveshapes 0-31 have some data in them, but they were never specified. Starting with waveshape #32, then is the correct series of factory waveshapes...they start with the basic shapes - 32 = sine, 33 = saw, and 34 = square. After that was just the waves as created, all the way up to 125, then 126 was left silent, to have a way to mute one or more corners of the VS mix.
In the Vectron, the #32 Sine is called 'SineWave', following the four Pre:A/B/C/D Sawtooth shapes. So, if you start counting the Vectron's waveshapes from there, you have the same data as the VectorSector, up until #125, called 'Annoys Dog' in the Vectron. Then there are a number of extra waveshapes added by whoever at CW did them, with the silent wave position named 'ReadingRoom' after all those.
By the way, the VectorSector presets sure sound like the original factory presets I did, so...perhaps he was able to take a data dump of the presets there and accurately emulate each parameter range, etc.?
Unfortunately, I no longer have my VS Rack for a real comparision test - I sold it in Japan many years ago.
Hope this helps,
cheers,
john b.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: johnbowen on 2005-12-06 13:57 ]</font>
-
kybernaut_01
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact: