Interesting link here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3117505.stm
Which all just helps feed my contempt for the music industry corporates and their latest ridiculous escapade of taking file-sharers to court....
Also note the street price of pirate CDs. That's the true market price - not that set by the "proce-fixing" music giants.
It is NOT file-sharing that's hurting CD sales....
Unfortunately what the RIAA consistently fails to recognize is :
1. this is what happens when you treat music as a purely commercial commodity
2. the way they have devalued music for years by releasing utter crap feeds the pirates' attitude : "if it's tacky and disposable then why the hell should I pay for it?" Why indeed.
peace
1. this is what happens when you treat music as a purely commercial commodity
2. the way they have devalued music for years by releasing utter crap feeds the pirates' attitude : "if it's tacky and disposable then why the hell should I pay for it?" Why indeed.
peace
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samplaire
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- Contact:
What's the comparison between the lowest personal netto income allowed by your law and the price of a CD? Here in Poland it is like this:
650PLN - 60PLN (hey, it's nearly 10%!!!!) .There is no surprise Polish citizens choose pirated CDs as the CDs are 10PLN or 15PLN in our black market.
Yes, the majors establish CD prices too high. Even if it should include studio hires, gear, productions, postproduction, sleeves etc.
650PLN - 60PLN (hey, it's nearly 10%!!!!) .There is no surprise Polish citizens choose pirated CDs as the CDs are 10PLN or 15PLN in our black market.
Yes, the majors establish CD prices too high. Even if it should include studio hires, gear, productions, postproduction, sleeves etc.
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Nestor
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ABSOLUTELYOn 2003-08-05 04:37, dArKr3zIn wrote:
Unfortunately what the RIAA consistently fails to recognize is :
1. this is what happens when you treat music as a purely commercial commodity
2. the way they have devalued music for years by releasing utter crap feeds the pirates' attitude : "if it's tacky and disposable then why the hell should I pay for it?" Why indeed.
peace
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
Do you really think this would be different if they hadn't treated music as a commodity?On 2003-08-05 04:37, dArKr3zIn wrote:
Unfortunately what the RIAA consistently fails to recognize is :
1. this is what happens when you treat music as a purely commercial commodity
2. the way they have devalued music for years by releasing utter crap feeds the pirates' attitude : "if it's tacky and disposable then why the hell should I pay for it?" Why indeed.
peace
It is my experience that more interesting music have hit the shelves than ever before - I'm primarily talking about electronic music though, don't know much about anything else, still I have heard of many interesting Lo-Fi-releases and other interesting genres.
These releases we have all the small and upcoming recordlabels to thank for though, not the big record labels.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Petal on 2003-08-05 14:13 ]</font>
Personally, yes. I won't go into why I think this, as I would be here typing all day, and anyway it wouldn't change the fact that it is a hypothetical question : it is not reality. I was merely offering possible answers for why reality has turned out the way it is.On 2003-08-05 14:12, Petal wrote:
Do you really think this would be different if they hadn't treated music as a commodity?
peace
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
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- Location: Montreal, Canada
The RIAA represents people who think they're selling music....
Who can tell me the last time they actually heard music on commercial radio? There is no such thing as music on commercial radio nor in record bins at your local record store(unless you want to spend an astronomical amount of money).
Does anybody here think that the guys in Osanna would get any money recovered from say, ME because some guy in Chicago let me pick up their album Palepoli through Napster?
The guy did not SELL it to me, he SHARED it with me!
Come and get me, you sods!
_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2003-08-05 21:20 ]</font>
Who can tell me the last time they actually heard music on commercial radio? There is no such thing as music on commercial radio nor in record bins at your local record store(unless you want to spend an astronomical amount of money).
Does anybody here think that the guys in Osanna would get any money recovered from say, ME because some guy in Chicago let me pick up their album Palepoli through Napster?
The guy did not SELL it to me, he SHARED it with me!
Come and get me, you sods!
_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2003-08-05 21:20 ]</font>
I personally regard mp3 as a decent form of radio... that is, a radio station where I'm not spoon-fed whatever it is that the cigar-chomping record company exec wants me to buy this week.
It's fine for established acts to have a name and reputation through media including radio and TV, but for the underground artists, mp3 is one of the few ways they can gain exposure (especially since the crackdown on internet radio).
I have seen countless stories of people becoming known and, yes, selling records, after exposure on file-sharing systems, or even just providing mp3 downloads from their official website.
Personally, if the music is good enough, it gets bought. If it isn't, it gets deleted. Perhaps the only people worried are those who make mediocre music?
peace
It's fine for established acts to have a name and reputation through media including radio and TV, but for the underground artists, mp3 is one of the few ways they can gain exposure (especially since the crackdown on internet radio).
I have seen countless stories of people becoming known and, yes, selling records, after exposure on file-sharing systems, or even just providing mp3 downloads from their official website.
Personally, if the music is good enough, it gets bought. If it isn't, it gets deleted. Perhaps the only people worried are those who make mediocre music?
peace
The reason the music corporations are so nervous is because it is possible that in the future we won't need them. There always will be music. We would all be better off if these giant labels went bankrupt or into a different line of business. Few musicians make much money anyway (as a percentage of the total) and the money they make seems not to be related to their talent. It's my opinion that Clear Channel, MTV and the big labels have been brainwashing young impressionable kids into buying their hideous offerings for far too long.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2003-08-08 12:13 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2003-08-08 12:13 ]</font>
As I see it:
It is (where I live) just a sign of public moral. People download illegal music, because they can get away with it. Just like some poeple cheat with the tax, because they can get away with it (they still want public services though).
In the year 2003 many people accept fraud. And because of this even in a bus or a train, you will hear people talking about their illegal actions. It all reminds me of the way (I belive) many empires have fallen ...
It is (where I live) just a sign of public moral. People download illegal music, because they can get away with it. Just like some poeple cheat with the tax, because they can get away with it (they still want public services though).
In the year 2003 many people accept fraud. And because of this even in a bus or a train, you will hear people talking about their illegal actions. It all reminds me of the way (I belive) many empires have fallen ...
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
Where I live, if I download a "nonshareware" song, I make a copy, witch I am not legally entitled to owning, thus breaking the Danish law. You may argue my use of words, but English is not my native language, and the COPY I get by downloading is illegal acording to the laws in the country, where I live.
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
I don't think we should confuse illegal and imoral. Laws are made by governments. A lot of groups influence the government such as churches and multinational companies. These entities work with the government, often to create stupid and bad laws. Morality is often subjective and thus has many shades rather than being a black or white issue.
well,i don't mind people getting stuff for free,but i also don't like starving.there are many who can pay who don't.that may not be illegal,but it isn't very nice.file sharing can devolve into greediness.
there are many things leading to the failure of the record business here in southern california u.s.a..the local governments don't like musicians to perform.the enjoyment and listening to of music is connected to alchohol and drugs(as those who sell music and have places for performances like it),and these activities are the current pariah.(publicly only mind you,there is still plenty of alchohol and drugs for home use.............)serious drunk driving laws and a lack of public transit make people reluctant to go out.radios play a very limited playlist so only a few records are known.intense social pressure keeps people from hearing new music or expanding his/her horizon.etc.
file sharing is not the cause of poor business,it is the possible last straw in the business.oh well,the industry was never very responsive to those who made it possible.here's betting that in the collapse of the same,the musicians will feel it the worst.
there are many things leading to the failure of the record business here in southern california u.s.a..the local governments don't like musicians to perform.the enjoyment and listening to of music is connected to alchohol and drugs(as those who sell music and have places for performances like it),and these activities are the current pariah.(publicly only mind you,there is still plenty of alchohol and drugs for home use.............)serious drunk driving laws and a lack of public transit make people reluctant to go out.radios play a very limited playlist so only a few records are known.intense social pressure keeps people from hearing new music or expanding his/her horizon.etc.
file sharing is not the cause of poor business,it is the possible last straw in the business.oh well,the industry was never very responsive to those who made it possible.here's betting that in the collapse of the same,the musicians will feel it the worst.
Yeah Paul 
I know, it is a matter of how you twist the limmits, and if you do or don't.
However, cassettes (copying music to cassettes was illegal too b.t.w.) provided a quality decrease far more obvious than a well made mp3 encoding. And ofcoarse it is just a matter of a few years, before people have connections so fast, that they don't even want to bother with compressed file formats. Burning a digital copy gives you a perfect image (only a very limmites amount of people with extremely expensive gear will hear the difference).
No matter how we turn and twist words and limmits to our personal preferences (I do so with cassettes), the matter of the fact is, that CD-sales has dropped about 40% in 3 years in Denmark. And here, a CD costs about 3 hours of work after tax is payed if you have dirty low level work, as I have had durring some parts of my lifetime. So it is not realy the Polish situation here. Here it is more a matter of priorities, and people prioritice to get music for free, so they can spend their money on other stuff.
The empire, I live in is called "The Western World". I mean we want people to work under good conditions and all ... but we do too like cheap stuff, and therefor we do buy all kind of stuff made in 3rd world countries under very poor conditions. I don't mean to offend anybody with this, and I do know, that I possibly live in one of the countries on the world, where it is easiest to surviwe. These are just my thoughts about life. The Romans took it to the limmit. They made slaves run bigger bussinesses. Ofcoarse, that lead to stagnation :rolleyes:
Anyway, as I see it (where I live), there is only 3 ways to live from making music:
1) Make it big (and don't count on much, because today people often only do that once).
2) Play popular songs from the radio in clubs.
3) Have a work to pay you rent and food, and play your music your sparetime.
I don't know, what this will lead to? At the present time, I think the result is, that many people can feel some kind of community, because they all know the same 3 songs, witch are palyed in rotation on the radio. Also some people get the joy to feel proud, when they give their friends a copy of some music, they downloaded - or just provide a link to a "good source".
It would be interesting, if sub cultures would gain strength as a respons to all this pop fanatism.
By now, the listener gets it all, and ofcoarse that is nice. But music bussiness (where some of you people earn your money or dream of doing so) will not become a less cruel work place.
I know, it is a matter of how you twist the limmits, and if you do or don't.However, cassettes (copying music to cassettes was illegal too b.t.w.) provided a quality decrease far more obvious than a well made mp3 encoding. And ofcoarse it is just a matter of a few years, before people have connections so fast, that they don't even want to bother with compressed file formats. Burning a digital copy gives you a perfect image (only a very limmites amount of people with extremely expensive gear will hear the difference).
No matter how we turn and twist words and limmits to our personal preferences (I do so with cassettes), the matter of the fact is, that CD-sales has dropped about 40% in 3 years in Denmark. And here, a CD costs about 3 hours of work after tax is payed if you have dirty low level work, as I have had durring some parts of my lifetime. So it is not realy the Polish situation here. Here it is more a matter of priorities, and people prioritice to get music for free, so they can spend their money on other stuff.
The empire, I live in is called "The Western World". I mean we want people to work under good conditions and all ... but we do too like cheap stuff, and therefor we do buy all kind of stuff made in 3rd world countries under very poor conditions. I don't mean to offend anybody with this, and I do know, that I possibly live in one of the countries on the world, where it is easiest to surviwe. These are just my thoughts about life. The Romans took it to the limmit. They made slaves run bigger bussinesses. Ofcoarse, that lead to stagnation :rolleyes:
Anyway, as I see it (where I live), there is only 3 ways to live from making music:
1) Make it big (and don't count on much, because today people often only do that once).
2) Play popular songs from the radio in clubs.
3) Have a work to pay you rent and food, and play your music your sparetime.
I don't know, what this will lead to? At the present time, I think the result is, that many people can feel some kind of community, because they all know the same 3 songs, witch are palyed in rotation on the radio. Also some people get the joy to feel proud, when they give their friends a copy of some music, they downloaded - or just provide a link to a "good source".
It would be interesting, if sub cultures would gain strength as a respons to all this pop fanatism.
By now, the listener gets it all, and ofcoarse that is nice. But music bussiness (where some of you people earn your money or dream of doing so) will not become a less cruel work place.
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