Is every job like this ?

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:58 am

Dear Planet Z Advisors,

For years I was in a middle-management position. I had lots of flexability to intervene and trouble-shoot & fix things where-ever I liked, BUT always I had to battle people "promoted to their level of incompetence" and others who *always* resisted change, people who just whinged about everything, and others who were obviously just lazy or didn't care.

It was so frustrating sometimes I felt like screaming. Faced with so many people like that you almost feel like giving up and saying "well no one gives a sh*t, so why should I ?"

But then of course you will be just like the people who have made your life miserable.

Now I'm back actually *doing* things rather than giving orders and I like it. I'm producing multimedia with video, writing music, editing pictures etc. It's a lot of fun.

But my job is not secure. I am on "test". And I find that the people I report too are just the same types as before: Don't care, don't want to know, are pig-ignorant, or I suspect in some cases they are resentful and actively try to sabotage my efforts. I think some suspect I have some sort of secret plan to take over or something.... but I just want to produce good material !

And these are the people who hold my future in their hands !

I find it all so depressing and draining trying to fight against such things.

Is every workplace and job like this ?

I feel so old and tired of all this crap that sometimes I think I should give it up and move to a shack in the country...

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:53 pm

A middle leader position is very dependant on the rest of the collegues (above, next to and below in ranks). You like, what you do now, so I think the best thing to do is to try and do it as best you can. Shure, some people do not like having people below them being too smart, but I think you have to not about it. If they truly are such people, they will not be the right people for a person like you, who (it is my impression) realy do not live well with taking orders, that you do not understand (i.e. because they are not too clever).

You may end in a tough decision: To either work as you want to and take the consecuenses or to adapt to the demands you meet. The later can seam like loosing to some people, but it can also be a great relief to get to the point, where it is "just a job": You do it, and you go home to your family afterwards. To some people, that can lead to a view, where things are not so important - in a good way. Other people can not see it like that, and they get depressed, angry and tense.

I hope all works out to the better for you. And if that means finding another job, I hope you will be able to sense before signing, if your new "masters" are of "the same type" as the others.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:19 pm

Be at peace, brother, take definite time each day to just sit in silence and breathe within the Life which is continually poured down to you to bless you, inspire you and provide all that you could possibly need. Only, the outer activity of the mind often gets entangled in a whirlwind of suggestions and emotions and easily looses the focus of what is really the most important thing.

From what I see, you really have a great opportunity to be firm within yourself and not let your emotional world be influenced by all the silly gossip which fly around you! Be unconcerned by all the pitiful human crap that those who live in fear try to perpetuate and instill in others! I'm confronted to this kind of abject behaviours quuite often, although not in my job but in other encounters with the human race. I used to be affected by what others do or think or feel, but now I know that one must close the door to discord if he is ever to find peace in this world! You know, just being true to oneself and be honest in our efforts to better ourselves stirs up all kinds of feelings within others because they are not strong enough to stop their own emotional maelstrom! This should not be allowed to destabilize good people from being true and continue on the Path!

Spirit, those in fear are not the helm of anyone's destiny but their own and those who wilfully follow them! Fear never won nor ever will win any victory, for the only thing it accomplishes in the end is its own demise and annihilation! Harmony and peace, however, have perpetuated the plant life on this planet for aeons, have maintained the solar system in perfect equilibrium even longer, while mankind have build and destroyed and built and destroyed on and on and on and on! Now is the final apex of all ages where we will build what will last and not be allowed to be destroyed once again, because enough is enough!

Be at peace,
Etienne

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:31 pm

Spirit,

It's my humble belief that everything in this existence happens for a reason. Everything set before you is there to test you at every turn, the only thing you can do is stay focused on what is important to you, and try not to get entangled in petty things which may even be forced down your throat. This last part is very important.

I've only ever had bad jobs in my lifetime, the kind which make you want the morning to never come

But recently I had a nice break and I now have the opportunity to do what I've always wanted to do, in a nice environment. These nice things do happen, trust me, you only have to have a faith in providence, if you like, and patience. That's the hardest thing to deal with, the day-in, day-out mundane grind. Believe me I've been there.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't sound patronising, I hope it helps you. I wish you luck in your new position

peace

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:43 pm

Very dear Spirit… You are a very responsive person… you always are giving from yourself what you can… this is very much appreciated. I don’t think there are much people ignoring it… if they are, well, this is sad but it’s not as bad as it seems, cos lack of consciousness is everywhere in the world. It’s not something new.

If your conviction is strong enough (and I know it is) well…, you can’t give up. I know, my friend, that the world is a difficult place. It seems that more you do efforts to do something, the less people take you for a serious person… I know! But, I also know that even if they look scary, or vicious, etc., people understand and know that your efforts are real… so, in the long term, you WILL by all means, get a result to what you do. PLEASE, don’t give up, just keep going with all the good vibrations you generate from a mind which doesn’t like corruption…

The path to fulfil your own creativity and vocations, its never ever easy… I’m sure your perseverance will triumph over the ego of other people minds… DO NOT IDENTIFY yourself with life, you see it as if it was a film, not a real story, and you’ll get the benefits by the end of it…

mr swim · Post by **mr swim** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:08 am

I have done a lot of different jobs, and worked in many different types of companies. Basically, it is those people who have realised that they have not the talent, imagination or motivation to really succeed who are the ones who are intent on driving others down. It is the Nietzchean Will to Power at work for those who know they will never have real power. That is, the power to overcome their own weaknesses and insecurities - and grow.

Such people can GIVE you strength. Every time you look at them you have to smile to yourself and realise how utterly pathetic they are, and moreover, how they KNOW how utterly pathetic they are.

In that way, Eliam hit it spot on, except that all the silly gossip and crap can be a help as well as a hinderance.

The other thing to realise is that if they are trying to push you down, they must know you will naturally float to the top like all good creme de la creme

i.e. they realise your talents even better than you might ! One of these days someone sensible will come and help you brush them all aside . . .

Just f**k em !

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:18 pm

My friends from around the world - how it warms the heart

Thanks for your advice and kind words. It gives me strength. I'm feeling a bit better. I'm just going to push on and do whatever I feel is best nd try not to worry about all the crap.

You've helped put things into a saner perspective

Post by **garyb** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:51 pm

we do "jobs" for the money.the purpose and meaning and reason in life must come elsewhere.you are not your "job".if things go really well,what you are might be expressed in your "job".

governments tell us we want jobs.politricksters fight over who makes the most jobs.no one really wants a job,though.that is,no one wants to stop living their life so that another's life might prosper.the first thing that happens in a job is that your time,something you get so little of and is the essence of earthly life,gets sold to the employer for a paltry sum.(then your boss can say"don't do that on MY time")how can your life be worth any figure?it is more precious and unique than diamonds or oil.

because just being here is no longer proof of one's right to be here(ants,flowers,dogs,bees,rabbits and lions need no excuse)and only money is the measure of one's right to exist,people MUST go to a job.that shifts the balance of power away from the human and towards the institution that although made to serve the human,the human now serves.it is no surprise that in this atmosphere,which is insane,humans go insane and make life miserable for each other.

where i live,MOST young men look to a future where they will never be able to get a job or support themselves.they want a job but are not equipped with the skills nor are they prepared for the emotional and spiritual damage that the average job doer withstands daily.of course,they got this way because no one will hire them anyway,so they have given up and there is an underground society which supports the larger society.these are people who had nice upscale neighborhoods around los angeles only 30-40 years ago and there are still remnants of successful families around.most of what is now south central l.a. is now a battlezone and a wasteland.the large corporations that provided the jobs which were the backbone of those communities went to slave labor in asia and south america and there is nothing to take the place of those jobs.when you are starving,exploitaion in exchange for some food and comfort sounds kinda good.....

make your money and keep your options open.nothing is permanent in this life,and you want the money so know why you're there,do good work(you have ethics even if others don't,but that'll keep you employable)and know that your job is just PART of your life.

thanks for your indulgence.just an opinion...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:35 am

Time = Money

your boss buy your time, he get more money

you sell your time, you get less money...

This is my equation.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:38 pm

Spirit, I can only add that this reads awefully familiar to me. Right in the next couple of weeks I'm facing some meetings with probably the same kind of people you mention in your post.
But I can assure you that there are exceptions from that common experience - and one can actually get used to the uncertainities of a freelance job, too.
I'm working for several years now for a company which has been a 'sponsored' part of a large group for a long time, and as such didn't cause much interest in the management of the main company. But during the last years they've developed a highly profitable business (I admit to be proud about my small contribution to that success

) and now exactly those people try to gain more influence...
But what's more important: that company I mentioned would be exactly looking for people like you - working best they can with full enthusiasm.
And it's run by a management which accepts the specifics of creative work, unconventional methods (if the result fits) and has big attention on human relationship at work.
In other words: it's more than a job - it can become a passion, why shouldn't it be the same down-under ?

cheers, Tom

Post by **Neil B** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:59 am

Work - whoever invented it eh?
I can sympathise with you. I too was in middle to upper management and, of course, wherever you work, there are always some who don't pull their weight, or use you, or criticise you etc.
I got up the ladder without being the slightest bit ambitious - I just kept my head down and worked (well and hard).
I also reached a point where I didn't want to lead any more, so like you I went back to more hands-on work than management. However, I kept being pushed up the ladder again, but that's another story.
Some of the replies have suggested that you simply treat it a a job and go hoem with the money. I don't think that you're like that though. You certainly aren't here on "Planet Z". You seem to have a passion for all things you are involved in, and I don't think that taking the money would give you any peace, and doing that for years would mean missing out on a lot of job satisfaction.
To me, job satisfaction was a big part of life. If you can sacrifice some money for the job satifaction, at least you are happier more often, and for longer.
In the end, I got tired of seeing old ideas being regurgitated by up and coming "stars". Of course the old ideas failed again and wasted more money. I simply stopped believing in it.
"Give it all up and move to a shack in the country"? Well, I haven't moved yet, but I gave it up as soon as I felt financially secure enough for the rest of my days.
Work is a means to an end. You spend a lot of time doing it, so make sure you enjoy it.
And when you can afford to not do it - get out and enjoy the rest of your life with family, friends and music

I've been retired 9 months now and soon reach the magic age of 50 and pension time. I have never been happier and more relaxed.

In summary - go for the job satisfaction and don't take any garbage of people who don't know what they're on about.
My six penneth of comments for what it is worth.

I just read this interesting quote:
How many men, on their death bed, have said "I wish I'd spent more time at the office"?
_________________
Neil B

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil B on 2003-07-16 02:04 ]</font>

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:18 am

I was hoping you'd reply Neil. All the comments here have really helped, and I thank you all sincerely for the time to reply.

Next week I fly back to corporate HQ. While they are happy with my work, now they are talking about moving me back to headquarters. I don't want to go. I spent three years wriggling out of a job there and I won't be going back !

Crunch time - will I hve a job next week ? I let you know here what happens.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:53 am

I cross my fingers for you Spirit

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:39 pm

How beautiful words you have written guys, how deep conclusions and terrible truths you have exposed. I´m so happy there are still people thinking this way, like you Garyb, Neil and all the others posters.

For you Spirit, it would be useless for me to add anything to the already written words, just say I could not be in more empathy, I simply coudn´t agree more, with what they have already told you! Good luck for you Spirit!

Post by **Neil B** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:23 am

Good luck for the meeting.
Let us know how you go on.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, Spirit!

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:02 pm

So, I went to Corporate HQ and everone was smiling at me and saying nice things. Surely this can't last I thought.

I didn't get exactly what I wanted, but came pretty damn close. And funny thing was that the people who I thought were making my life hard WERE, but mainly through sheer ignorance of what I was trying to achieve.

Of course I am now asked to do more with less - but that's the capitalist way, yes ? And at least it should be moderately entertaining.

The shack in the bush will have to wait a while.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm on another 3 month trial !

Ah, it's a wonderful world.

_________________
Here I rest

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spirit on 2003-08-04 16:04 ]</font>

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:17 pm

Well Spirit, I´m happy to see you have nevertheles, and despite it´s not the perfect thin, reached a confortable situation.

Yes, please... ENJOY what you do! Above all ENJOY!

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:17 pm

There is hope out there guys!

I just started a job in a hospital in the research department. Ok, it's only washing beekers and crap like that but, HEY!, I'm surrounded with intelligent people who are smiling most of the time and I'm being paid a more than adequate salary.

Now I just don't have any time for the music jobs that are still pouring in. I don't care because I'm freakin' sick of programming MIDI files for non-musicians.

Be at peace and remember, good things come to those who give a shit!

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 pm

On 2003-08-04 19:17, paulrmartin wrote:
Be at peace and remember, good things come to those who give a shit!

An excellent "thought for the day"