Can someone explain me these specifications?

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Thu May 29, 2003 6:13 pm

Hello!

As you may probably remember, I was looking to buy a preamp and a mic for recording my acoustic string instruments. Can someone have a look at the specs of the preamp and of the mic below and tell me if they are going to work okay?
Preamp (TLA Ivory 5051):
Mic Input
Mic Noise (EIN): -127dBu (150 ohm source,
22Hz to 22kHz)
Line Input (Balanced)
Maximum level: +26dBu
Line Output (Balanced)
Maximum level: +26dBu
Frequency Response: 10Hz to 40kHz, +0, -1dB
Noise: -80dBu (22Hz to 22kHz)
Dynamic Range: 106dB

Mic (Red5audio RV8):
Element: Pressure Gradient Transducer
Diaphragm: 3-micron thick, vapour deposited gold diaphragm
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
-10 db Attenuation Switch
Low frequency roll-off switch
Internal and external gold-plated connectors
Frequency Response: 20Hz – 20kHz
Sensitivity: -35dB (+/- 2dB)
(0dB = 1V/Pa at 1kHz)
Output Impedance: 250 Ohms +/- 30% (at 1kHz)
Self Noise: 16dBA
Max. Input SPL: 135dB (at 1kHz 1% THD)
145dB (with –10dB Pad)
Operating Voltage: 48V dc phantom power (+/- 5V)

R they going to cooperate smoothly or is there any issue?

Thank you

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:17 pm

Preamp (TLA Ivory 5051):
thats tube isn't it?
Mic Input
Mic Noise (EIN): -127dBu (150 ohm source,
22Hz to 22kHz)
looks like good noise specs to me
Line Input (Balanced)
Maximum level: +26dBu
It can handle a lot of input without distorting (if set right)
Line Output (Balanced)
Maximum level: +26dBu
Good head room
Frequency Response: 10Hz to 40kHz, +0, -1dB
If it is tube - ok. If it is not - bad
Noise: -80dBu (22Hz to 22kHz)
If your signal peaks at 0dBu, you have a signal to noise ratio of 80dB
Dynamic Range: 106dB
Your maximum signal to noise ratio - if you signal peaks at +26dB (I think Pulsar will not like more than +22, but I may be wrong - don't worry - just save a little head room

Mic (Red5audio RV8):
Element: Pressure Gradient Transducer
Diaphragm: 3-micron thick, vapour deposited gold diaphragm
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
-10 db Attenuation Switch
You can lower the signal going into the internal electronics by 10dB to avoid clipping at high sound presure levels
Low frequency roll-off switch
The microphone can make a lo-cut. They should have measured a cut-frequency
Internal and external gold-plated connectors
Frequency Response: 20Hz – 20kHz
This says nothing, at it doesn't say, if the signal is down by 30dB at 20kHz
Sensitivity: -35dB (+/- 2dB)
(0dB = 1V/Pa at 1kHz)
Output Impedance: 250 Ohms +/- 30% (at 1kHz)
Self Noise: 16dBA
This is actually far more important than the noise specs on your preamp. This microphone has average noise specs
Max. Input SPL: 135dB (at 1kHz 1% THD)
145dB (with –10dB Pad)
It will not distort, when you play guitar
Operating Voltage: 48V dc phantom power (+/- 5V)
It needs phantom power

R they going to cooperate smoothly or is there any issue?
That can not be judget by specs. Audio equipment can emphasize certain frequency areas without it being vissible in such specs. So your long list of specs says nothing about, how the gear sounds - only how much noise it makes, and that it will not distort, when you play guitar

I will give you the reason, why I did not answer you in the first place. I believe, that by making an easy copy/paste and not telling us, what you do know, we have to either guess, what to tell you are tell you, what you allready know (I am pretty shure you knew, what phantom power is). Most people on internetfora are helpfull people. But if they smell, that you want to do a lot of work, that you could easily have done yourself (in this case taking out, what you knew or telling us, what not to spend time on), then they will often back out and leave you with your problem. That goes for me anyway, and from a couple of years of heavy forum use, I do believe I am not the only one. Anyway, noone answered your thread, even though most people in here could do that much better that me.

I hope you get a good set-up, and I look forward to hear a bit of your recordings with you comming to be gear. Unfortunately I can in no way tell you, it the 2 things will sound good together. Even if they are good seperate units, they may still be bad together.

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:40 pm

Hello Immanuel! Thank you for replying!

Actually, I dont have the slightest idea what all these numbers mean! That is why I posted! Ofcourse I know what is phantom power, or what is self noise, or what is sensivity etc.. But I have no idea what the fiugures mean! What is dBu? The preamp for example can handle +26dBu. But I cant understand what the microphone sensivity figures mean! [-35dB (+/- 2dB)(0dB = 1V/Pa at 1kHz)] So, I dont know if the mic is going to overload the preamp! That is for example one of the things I d like to know.
If you could direct me to a site where I could read about these things and educate myself, I would be grateful! There is no need to know in depth what the figures actually count. I just need to know number X is greater than number Y, then Y performs better... For example, I know that the lowest is the figure of self-noise the better it is. On the other hand, the bigger the S/N figure, the better it is...

And my question if the two units can work together, had to do with the technical side of things and not with the qualitative side. So, if the 2 things together make a bad sound, dont worry! I am not going to blame you!

Thank you for your help!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:03 am

Yeah they sure will work togheter...

The preamp, acording to spec, look very good.
But I'd have a look a this 16db self noise... It seems pretty high to me. This is 16db of noise you'll have to live with.

For example, if you want to record a really present and warm voice, you'll have to crank up the preamp, that's ok, but behind your 'Barry White'

voice, you'll always have this 'shhhhhh', permanently. Not much to do with it... 16db of it...

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:27 am

mmm...you are right... it is too noisy... BTW, I have heard some mp3 recordings of acoustic guitar miked by the Rode NT1000 that you have suggested me, and it sounds fantastic!

I have narrowed my options down to 3:
a) Focusrite Trakmaster & Rode NT1000 (both at 600 euros)
b) TL Audio Ivory 5051 & Red5Audio RV8 (both at 660 euros)
c) SPL Track One (620 euros) with my Shure BG4.1 - and wait a few months until I have the money to buy a Rode NT1000.

What do you think? I am getting there...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:07 am

I would go for options C.

I never heard the SPL, but they are so highly regarded, they must be good... I know, this sound a bit ridiculous, because someone say it's good, it must be? Nah... But hey, that's what ->I<- would do...

Also, maybe it's an option for you to have the tl audio 5051 + nt1000?
Also in your price range?

Look at this : http://www.tlaudio.co.uk/tlaroute2/page ... 051rev.htm

The guy swear by this preamp to record acoustic guitar. I can image this preamp with a low noise NT1000 perfectly! I bet it would sound pretty incredible!

Anyway, you're almost there... Can't wait to hear your next take of guitar with your future new setup!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-06-03 07:07 ]</font>

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:32 am

Thank you MarcusPocus for your help!

I am aware of the 5051 review, thats why I mention this preamp!

The 5051 + a NT1000 would go for about 800.. But I will forget the mic at the moment (I will surely buy an NT1000 in a couple of months) and will concentrate on the preamp.
Could you please have a look at the Track One's specs and tell me how do these compare to the TLA 5051? Furthermore, will it feed OK Pulsar's RCA inputs? have marked with asterisks the phrases that I cant understand)

Specifications
Microphone input
Frequency response 10 Hz-200 kHz
(200 kHz =-3 dB)
** Common mode rejection 1 kHz:-80 dB /10 kHz:-68 dB
(at -20 dBu)
** THD &N amplification A-weighted
20 dB -97,5dBu
40 dB -91,0dBu
65 dB -69,6 dBu
Dynamic response 115 dB
Instrument input
Frequency response 10 Hz-180 kHz
(180 kHz =-3 dB)
** THD &N amplification
7 dB -98,4 dBu
20 dB -95,8 dBu
42 dB -77,2 dBu
** Input impedance Line:12 kOhm /Instr.:1 MOhm (is that OK for an American classic Strat?)
Max.input level Line:+25 dBu /Instr.:+13 dBu
Dynamic response 115 dB
Outputs
** Max.output level XLR/jack +20 dBu (what is the maximum signal Pulsar expects? I want to take full advantage of Pulsar's AD converters and have maximum S/N ratio)
* Output impedance 50 Ohm (any problems here?)
Power supply
Toroidal transformer 15 VA
Fuses 315 mA (230 V/50 Hz)
630 mA (115 V/60 Hz)

Thanks a lot to everyone for their help!

I am almost there!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:16 am

I don't know how to interpret all those number, but one thing i see is that the 5051 output a balanced signal, and the pulsar classic is unbalanced...problem...

Isn't there an option from digital output on those preamp? Like an adat optional interface? You would have a better s/n ratio, and at least compatible i/o. Balanced doesn't work with unbalanced.

Pulsar onboard a/d isn't top btw... too close to interferences sources (inside the pc).

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:49 pm

There is a digital option available for both machines. The TLA has unbalanced outputs as well (which can be used at the same time with the balanced ones).
Mmm, I d rather save money for the mic... other AD converters is not a priority at the moment...

P.S. R u sure balanced does not work with unbalanced? I thought the other way around is more difficult... To feed an unbalanced device with a balanced signal, one has to lift the ground of the cable and reduce the output of the balanced device by 14db, isnt it?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rodos1979 on 2003-06-03 13:51 ]</font>

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:09 pm

Then all is OK!

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:51 pm

Your best option would then be to use the unbalanced output of the TLA.

Balanced to unbalanced will work, the other way around as well, but you can get into impedance mis-matches and ground loops etc.

A good reference if you are ever put into this situation is here:-
http://www.rane.com/note110.html

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:25 am

Thank you very much for the link bassdude! It is very helpful!